Alberta towing regs (GVWR, GAWR, GCWR) & DOT's

[muffintop]

Just curious how sticky the Alberta DOT's are, in a  non-commercial application, with respect to:

1) Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR)? For those who don't know... the GCWR is specific to the tow vehicle, is supplied by the manufacturer (in the owners manual) and is the maximum amount of total weight you can pull including the loaded weight of the tow vehicle (i.e. GCWR = loaded weight of tow vehicle + loaded weight of trailer).

2) Class of Hitch? I have a Rampage rear "recovery" bumper, on my Jeep TJ, that has a 2" receiver. This bumper is mounted with 5 bolts per side where as a bolt on hitch is mounted with 3 bolts per side. Technically this bumper is not rated for towing; however, it has had some pretty good "pull tests" when utilized for recovery purposes (i.e. 8K winch, snatch block, etc.). If it wasn't for the US legal system and their propensity to sue the sh*t out of each other... I am sure this bumper would have a class 3 rating.

Anyway... my questions are:

1)  Has anyone ever been pulled over, going into Waiprous or Bragg Creek country, by the DOT's and had them scrutinize hitch rating, GCWR, GAWR, GVWR, etc? If so... what was your towing combination? Have they been known to just hand out fines or actually shut people down and start calling tow trucks?

2) Do the DOT's have "real time" access to GCWR info for all makes of vehicles? The GCWR info is not listed on door sticker... only GVWR & GAWR is.

3) Where can I get my bumper setup "Tow Class" certified in Calgary?

If there is a DOT officer on this forum... could you please either explain or straighten me out on the following. Assuming the same load is placed in the trailer:

1) Tandem axles & trailer brakes are a HUGE PLUS on the safety side (no one would argue with that)... yet... it doesn't factor into the GCWR rating... why is that?
2) Adding the extra axle and brakes makes things substantially safer on the road... but it also adds weight to the trailer... which means I have to take weight out of the trailer. So the safer I get... the less weight I can pull. The only thing I can gather from our regulations, in my particular situation, is if I want to pull the maximum amount of weight... I have to get rid of an axle and not run brakes. Does this make sense?  

It is important to note that I'm not looking to cheat the system and be unsafe on the highway. I am just looking to pull a very lightly loaded 6' x 12' tandem axle cargo trailer w/ trailer brakes (this is my tent on wheels and has about 400lbs of stuff in it). I have already done a test pull w/ the trailer... and my 4" lifted TJ w/ 33's pulls it like its not even back there. I am good on both tow vehicle & trailer GVWR/GAWR... but I am about 300-400lbs over GCWR (which doesn't factor in trailer brakes).

Any advice or shared experiences on this would be great.

Thanx.

[cLAY]

How heavy is your trailer? Last time I checked any trailer  over 3500# was required to have brakes.

I have never heard of a non commercial trailer getting pulled over in Alberta however any RCMP or police officer can pull you over if they feel your load was unsafe.

The closest I've seen was guy with a 1/2ton pulling a car trailer with a stack of lumber on it. He only had one strap across it and got pulled into one of the commercial vehicle inspection stations they were doing on Beddington a year or two ago. When I first came by he was unhooking the trailer and when I came by an hour later he had 2 more shiny new straps on the load and was hooking back up. I'm guessing they let him off with a warning and made him go buy new straps.


The stock brakes on a TJ aren't that great and combined with the light curb weight of a TJ is probably why its GCWR is low. 33s won't help the situation either in the braking department but with brakes on the trailer you can probably stop faster with the trailer than without.

Personally if you are sure its safe(do some moderate speed, abrupt lane changes and see how it handles with the lift) I would run with the brakes and if DOT ever gives you grief the worst you'll have to do is unload 400# of gear to get it down.

[muffintop]

Thanx for the reply/input. The trailer with nothing in it is 1800lbs. Loaded with my gear its about 2200lbs & tongue weight is about 100lbs and doesn't even affect ride height of the Jeep. It looks completely sanitary, tracks and brakes very well. I was actually quite surprised how well the TJ pulls it and how well it collectively brakes. Like I said... its only over the GCWR by about 300-400lbs and doesn't pull any different (no big surprise) whether it is loaded or unloaded.

Having said that... rules is rules... and all I need is a "by the book" officer and I'll either be shut down or be looking to throw about 400lbs of stuff into someone elses tow rig. Now I would agree the probability of that is extremely low assuming all else is good (trailer hooked up properly, all lights function, not speeding, driving in a controlled fashion, trailer tracking properly, everything contained & secured, etc.) 

So in your experience... have you ever seen the RCMP/DOT's, on a long weekend for example, setting up a check stop looking for anything more than the usual (drivers license, insurance, seat belts, open liquor, etc)?

 

[cLAY]

Never have I seen in AB RCMPs checking GCWRs on Long Weekends on non-commercial vehicles. If they pulled you in at a checkstop for other things(liquor, liscense, etc) and thought your load was unsafe they may start looking at you more carefully. RCMP don't normally carry weigh scales so they wouldn't be able to tell unless DOT was onsite with  a scale, which I've never seen.

BC though is a different story.....

[muffintop]

I like what your telling me... makes sense. With so many rules & regulations... how can they (RCMP/DOT's) patrol, target, be informed on & be equipped to enforce them all.

With that said... I'm not trying go by "undetected" with 4000lbs more than the GCWR... just a measily 400lbs. If 400lbs makes or breaks anything... a guy shouldn't be allowed to tow anything with a TJ.

I'm starting to feel a little bit better... is there anyone out there who has any bubble bursting stories?

Thanx much

[Spinalguy]

My only concern is pulling 2200 lbs 'safely' with a TJ. The short wheelbase makes it not a good tow vehicle.
Having said that, i have towed a 1300 lb trailer with a dirt bike in between the jeep and trailer. The hitch and bumper were all custom built and it towed fine...many times. But, i never had to swerve or brake suddenly. i do not know what may have happened if those circumstances had actualized.

Here was my set up and i was on 37's...



 

[Mudhawg]

they cracked down at the checkstops at maclean on maylong testing breakaways/checking tie downs and such

[muffintop]

The hitch and bumper were all custom built and it towed fine...many times.

This is my first time doing the quote thing... hope it works.

Did you have your custom built hitch & bumper "certified" or "tow rated"? Have you ever had an RCMP/DOT officer question your custom "non-rated" stuff?

Thanx.

[w squared]

I haven't towed anything behind my Jeep, but I've spent seven years towing trailers ranging from 1000 pounds to 30,000 pounds all over Alberta, Saskabush, and Northeastern BC. Yes, I know that 30,000 pounds (trailer and load comined) is too much to pull behind an F-550...but my boss didn't. I did some math, and to my Boss's credit the loads hauled in that trailer were reduced to an appropriate level.

I've noticed a few things.

#1. DOT's in Alberta don't seem all that concerned about one-ton commercial vehicles. Sure, if you wave a violation under their nose you're gonna get slapped - but they don't seem to ride the "little guys" all that hard. If they can barely be bothered to inspect commercially registered and stickerd one ton trucks and trailers, they're not likely to pull over a Jeep unless you happen to be in a convoy with a service rig. You sound like you pay attention to things like load securment, maintaining the electircal system on your trailer, and testing your brakes. If you take care of those, it's unlikely that you'll get harassed for slightly exceeding the GCWR.

#2. I've been through a few "blitz" parties held by the BC DOT type. I'm talking 10-15 DOT officer, a rep from Industry Canada, 6-8 RCMP officers, and I think that the Tooth Fairy might have shown up for that one too  . I was in a one-ton pulling a 5000 pound trailer loaded with dangerous goods. Each time, they asked me what I was pulling, asked me if I had checked my breakaway system that morning, gave my truck and trailer a quick glance, and sent me on my merry way.

From your post, it looks like you're using a tandem axle trailer to pull 600 pounds of gear. You may be using a framing hammer to drive tacks...but I've never seen your trailer, so what the frak do I know anyways? Most RC's and sherriffs will probably not get concerned if it all looks kosher. DOT's are probably better trained to detect "rules" violations...but their training and goal are focused on enforcement for commerical vehicles. Unless your vehicle is registered with a gross weight over 4490 KG, they probably won't worry about what you do (as long as it's not blatantly unsafe).

[muffintop]

You may be using a framing hammer to drive tacks...

Thanx for your take on the situation and taking the time to respond. I agree that unless there is a sudden change in DOT mandate in this province... I should be good.

I am definitely using a framing hammer to drive tacks... the trailer is a 6'x12', tandem axle, 7000lb GVWR w/ electric brakes... that I use as a tent 

So... morale of the story... make sure all my lights work, trailer's hooked up properly, brakes work, everything is properly plated & insured, Jeep & trailer look good to the eye (well maintained, level, tracks properly), dont speed, dont drive too slow, drive defensively (avoid emergency maneuvers) & stay out of the long weekend convoys... and all should be good.   

Ultimately... I guess if I get caught 400lbs over the GCWR... I will place my self in the hands of "logic, common sense & reason" and see how I fair against the DOT man and his book of rules. They dont carry tazers do they

[Spinalguy]

This is my first time doing the quote thing... hope it works.

Did you have your custom built hitch & bumper "certified" or "tow rated"? Have you ever had an RCMP/DOT officer question your custom "non-rated" stuff?

Thanx.

it worked

it was never certified or tow rated.

[i_go_commando]

dont forget to that even if you are a little over, most officials will not be to concerend. as an aside most RV's are over weight by the time you load food water people and fuel. I just hauled my camper on a a walmart trailer behind my grand cherokee all the way to Nordeg and back. I couldnt safley go over 80 km with out it swaying. i knew my limits and set the cruise at about 75 and gave lots of space. When i scaled the camper and trailer unloaded i was already 100 k overweight for the trailer with very little tongue weight.

The thing is everyone knows that rv season pushes a lot of vehicles to their limit and beyond. be smart, be safe, do everything you can to give yourself an out  ( slow down, and give space) and be courtious. Most likly if you do get busted theyll tell you to park your trailer. then youll need to do 2 trips or find a way to move the gear to a second vehicle. In my opinion even a 1000 lbs is not dangerous if its being used safely.

keith

[canuck2a]

Let me start by saying i am not an expert in this field. But I have been driving a tow truck for the last 4 years and know many rcmp, city, sherriffs, and DOT. As i have towed for them many many, times And been through scales many times too..  And in my But when the RCMP or DOT, Sherrifs do these checkstops or stings they are very, very thorough.  But if your rig is in good condition and your attitide is A1 they are definately more leniant and flexible.  But i have towed stuff for being overwight, vehicles or trailers in poor conditon (commercial and private vehicles)  I have even towed a 001 dodge diesel that the RCMP condemed on the side of the highway cause the mirrors were broken, body panels loose and flapping around, burned lights, poor tires, and who knows what else.)  But looking of the setup you have in that pic i would say you would probably be left alone.

I guess in short keep your stuff in good shape = little hassle.

As far as load and tow ratings they will look on your vehicles for tags and do the math.
I have used 2" ratchet straps with no load stickers on them and they refer to the manuals on what a strap that size is rated for then they take the load limit and minus half because you have no tag on it. Not sure if they will do the same to a tow rating or not.

But driving truck is a game almost you try to always be within the limit and when you are not, you try to get away with stuff if you have to, we have all done it, as long as it is not to unsafe

Just my 2 cents

[cLAY]

I just hauled my camper on a a walmart trailer behind my grand cherokee all the way to Nordeg and back. I couldnt safley go over 80 km with out it swaying. i knew my limits and set the cruise at about 75 and gave lots of space. When i scaled the camper and trailer unloaded i was already 100 k overweight for the trailer with very little tongue weight.

.

keith

I wouldn't spread this around too much. It makes you sound like an idiot.

[Bnine]

As far as I know, GCVW does not take into account trailer brakes. As soon as brakes come into the equation, it boils down to axle weights.

You can only get so heavy without exceeding your rear axle weight, since 10-15% of your trailer load gets applied to your tongue.

Take my 1 ton for instance. Its GCVW is 16500lbs. The truck is itself is 7000lbs. I am perfectly legal pulling my 26 foot gooseneck with two jeeps on it with a total combined weight of 22,000lbs because all my axle weights scale out within their limit.

The 2000 lb rating on a TJ is nothing more then a manufacturers recommendation. In alberta its all about axle weights.

BC is a completely different world, and I wouldnt even start to take a guess what their specific rules are like.