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Author Topic: Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?  (Read 9941 times)

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FeatherFoot

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« on: June 12, 2006, 12:12:33 AM »
There are some interesting opinions out there.  
We have had some lively debate in the past which some of the newer participants have not had the opportunity to take part in.

What's your opinion.

Do you think the 4X4 community (let's stick to trucks) has a bad image or a good image in the public eye?

What do you think the good images are?

What do you think the bad images are?

Is there peer pressure?  Does peer pressure influence behaviour?

What are every day things we can/should do to promote a good public image?

Does it matter?

02TJSport

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2006, 06:35:42 AM »
From what I personally have seen from my family and people I have run into over the years of not being an off roader there is a bad image towards 4x4's and how the trucks off road damage the environment and the types of ppl who off road.  They assume everyone that goes 4x4ing are hicks and don't care about anything and will destroy everything they run into (which in my opinion is not true by the way).

As far as good images I unfortunately havn't realy heard of any unless it comes from someone who is in the 4x4 community and is aware of what it is like to off road.

It is a difficult image to break though.  I'm not realy sure myself what can be done to change it.  I'll leave it up to the discussion to figure that out as right now I have no ideas.

Coolhand Luke

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2006, 10:07:52 AM »
My opinion is that no matter what society, group, race, class, religion you look at, you are going to have cool people who play by the rules and your going to have ***holes. I apply this as a general rule in my life. Take for example, there are cool cops and then there are real jerks, there are cool bikers and there are real jerks. Just think of any grouping of people and apply this, its true. Right now there is a classic example in the news. There have been hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops rotated in and out of their conflict in Iraq, but recently some bad ones did some bad things and that is what people remember. In Vietnam there was alot of good things done for the people by soldiers but everyone called them baby killers when they came back. So with off-roaders, people generalize just like everything else, and only remember the bad. All these are helped along by the media. Nobody wants to here about good stuff, just the bad.
The off-road community is 80% cool and there are those 20% who tarnish our image. Most large corporations, unions, religions politicians have whole teams of people who just do damage control. They have the money to cover up, silence, pay-offs, to keep their image clean. If you want to clean up the image you have to use the media to show club clean ups, family events, because all the people who no nothing about us just see the negatives and this is what they beleive we are like. Every year just before the May long there is the same 10yr old picture, of a big mud bog and trucks, used in the paper to show the Waiporous area, with a big write up about police and the craziness out there, after that you don't here anything about it untill next year, I can imagine that people think this is what it is like every weekend. We all know you can go out most times and hardly see anyone. You need the medias help to promote good images, and as far as peer pressure, well we have all fallen to this, but as you get older then you realize what is right and what is wrong. You need some way to keep unresponsible people from gaining access to areas, I would be willing to pay user fees to gain access, but people who don't really care, are just there for a good time, not along time might be turned off by that. I think once the damage is done it will take huge efforts to reverse them, in our case it could be too late.

Da_chopper

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2006, 04:23:45 PM »
This probably isn't the right thead but ...

What bothers me is I always see people drinking and driving on the trails!

Note: I have never seen a Jeeper doing this!  Nor a modified truck for that matter.  It has always seems to be your everyday 4x4 truck.

HIWYH8R

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2006, 08:41:51 PM »
I agree with the drinking and driving. I just started off roading 2 years ago when I bought my jeep and could not believe how most idiots had beers going in their truck. The other thing that that really suprised me was that most quaders don't even wear a helmet. Alberta is the only province I believe that does not have a helmet law off road. Are these quaders completely stupid??? Guess thats why we have a seatbelt law, to save the really stupid from themselves.

FeatherFoot

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2006, 09:56:25 PM »
Some obvious bad examples pointed out.  I guess those are some "shouldn'ts" we will want to think of as it applies to us however I think we should try to keep the scope of the discussion to the truck/Jeep group or we will end up in a finger pointing expedition without any constructive self self assessment.  

Given the trail ratios doled out last month, I know it will be hard to not want to pick up a handful of rocks and start throwing but for the time being, lets leave it at them getting round one.  

I don't think the fat lady has sung yet.

Offline Rig-Pig

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2006, 10:08:15 PM »
if anything, i would say that it shouldn't be off-roaders (jeeps, trucks) Vs.
Quaders.  i heard a comment while wheeling this weekend about how its us Vs. them;  when we both should be working together to shed these images of carelessness.  right now, there are tons of off-roaders complaining that waiparous is now quad only,  therefore, they are the enemy.  i think we have to work with the different off-road communities to try and save what little land we have left.  June 24th  sounds to me like a good idea for a rally against GAMP, but i think we should be inviting quaders, motor bikers, even mountain bikers to this event.  how long before the bottomless pockets of the oil industry shuts everything down completely then there will be no land for anyone.  in laymans terms, divide and conquer.
build 'em, break 'em,
love 'em, leave 'em
same thing

HIWYH8R

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2006, 11:02:56 PM »
Sorry, by no means was I meaning "us vs them" or bashing quaders. I was merely pointing out what I've seen in my first two years of wheeling, and I must say that from what me and my friends have seen it's no wonder off roaders look bad.

People cutting down live trees or running over them
Driving off the trail
DUI
Driving up and down creeks to "wash" the truck
No tree strap when using winch
Reckless driving
And a bunch of other things

I think the yahoos out there need to be hit in the wallet with BIG fines and vehical seizures, just like poaching.

Offline TJ54

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2006, 09:01:27 AM »
Do the 4 wheelers have an image problem?  Yes
Can we change it?  I doubt it.
The public image of bikers will always be that of the way bikers are portrayed in the media. The same with 4x4er's they are portrayed as being beer guzzling rednecks running around in there huge mud trucks ripping up the enviroment. If the media showed the vast majority of us who just wandered down the trails without any fuss, driving over small obstacles there would be no interest from the public at all.

As for us against them. Could somebody explain to me what is the benefit for the quadders and bikers joining the 4x4'ers side. We all know there is going to be no enforcement except on the long weekends. The bikers will still ride their single track  because no one will be able to stop them and the quadders will still go were ever they want to because......... well I'd better shut up now!
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.

FeatherFoot

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2006, 10:32:23 AM »
Quote
The public image of bikers will always be that of the way bikers are portrayed in the media.


Interesting point.

But has the motorcycle not become a badge proclaiming defiance of the norm?  To me the most relevant aspect of the motorcycle image is the Harley with the straight pipes.  The machine does not require open pipes to perform at a level that exceeds most autos by a wide margin, yet the "in your face" noise is as necessary as the dress code.  So in the case of the motorcycle, I suspect that a high percentage of the riders like that image just fine.  

That being said, could it be that a good percentage of 4X4 owners like the "image of freedom" in much the same way?  If that is the case, then the "go wherever I want" image is as important as the actual off road experience.  If you follow that notion to the next level, then you could say that a percentage of the 4X4 drivers like that image just fine.

From that perspective you can't just blaim the media.

Coolhand Luke

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2006, 11:27:08 AM »
I defentitley think there is a freedom image with 4x4's, we can go where most people can't. I myself used to look at a off-road truck with envy, before my 1st,  thinking that person must have alot of fun and go places and get away from it all where I can't. That is one thing I don't understand about Waiporous area, when I go camping I like to get far in and back as I can, but the sites just off Forst.Trk. Road by the river and gravel pit are usually such a mess. Why go out there to camp by the side of the road? I imagine these people just like the party and these are the ones ruining it. I personally have no problem with quads, bikes, I figure were all the same, what is the difference between 1 truck on a trail or 4 quads, as far as damage done, or garbage left? I've never conversed or heard if quad'ers talk negative about 4x4's, if I did I would probably loose it. Although I have had lots of quads and bikes roar into my campsite, which drives me nuts, but 4x4's have always been respectfull and kept there distance, maybe because we have been doing it longer and know the rules. Its all the responsibility of the individual. And as we all know there are alot of selfish people around, our Society is based on selfishness and ego's.

Offline TJ54

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2006, 11:47:12 AM »
Quote from: "FeatherFoot"
[
But has the motorcycle not become a badge proclaiming defiance of the norm?  To me the most relevant aspect of the motorcycle image is the Harley with the straight pipes.  The machine does not require open pipes to perform at a level that exceeds most autos by a wide margin, yet the "in your face" noise is as necessary as the dress code.  So in the case of the motorcycle, I suspect that a high percentage of the riders like that image just fine.  


No, the high percentage of motorbike riders do not like that image at all. I have ridden bikes for most of my life,
The motorcyle is not defiance of the norm in anyway except for a small percentage. If you go to most motorcyclng events you will notice the average rider looks like the average 4x4'er, just the guy next door.

And you have hit the nail right on the head here, and proved my point entirely. You have taken a small percentage of the people who ride motorbikes and applied it to all bikers. Like myself riding on my Honda Shadow (which I had to sell last year :cry: ), Spinalguy on his dirt bike in authorized off road areas and all those old farts on their Gold Wings.
And that is exactly what has happened to the four wheel drive community.
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.

Offline Spinalguy

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2006, 12:11:18 PM »
The louder the pipe the greater your chance of being heard on the road. Loud pipes save lives. So the pipe is not all about image.

Do we as 4x4's have an image problem? Yes

if we could just stop and wash our vehicles on the way home so we at least have clean looking rigs would greatly help our public image.

There is always going to be the 80/20 rule although i see it more as the 90/10 rule nowadays.

But if any of the 90% drives around with dirty vehicles in the city than you all become the 10% that is killing us!!!!

Think about this?
Let us take the worst case scenario with yahoos driving any OHV with beers in hand, mud flinging, skeg looking, off trail, etc.....What public person even sees this? No one but ourselves that are OHVing and see these 10%er's being idiots so how can this be a public image problem? The public doesn't see it only we do that are out there.
Bill Kaufmann of the Sun wrote a brutal article about the Ghost closures.(An absolutely IGNORANT journalistic rant) In the article he adressed the wanton destruction of this wonderful area. Do you know how he defined it or summed it up?
By stating we come back to the city with mud all over us as a badge of honor!!!! bullcrap.....i can drive the 940 in rain and be covered in mud and yet i never went offroad but as i return to the city, every car i pass thinks of where i may have been and what have i done to the preciuos land.

Cleaning your rig IMMEDIATELY is one way and perhaps the best way to lighten the impact of public perception.

LOUD pipes SAVE lives! :lol:
sent from my old school rotary dial phone.

Organized_Chaos

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2006, 12:26:18 PM »
and we in canada don't really even get a chance to make an image for ourselves. this beer guzzling fat-redneck image came from the southern US. Not that I'm blaming them for our problems. just that we should get a chance to show people the "softer" side of 4x4ing. the side of us that respect the trails and land we tread on. i've noticed that like 75 % of the people on this site have "tread lightly" in their signitures. and everyone seems like real, down to earth people that practice what they preech.

just my 2 cents

FeatherFoot

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Do you think the 4 wheel community has an image problem?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2006, 12:45:58 PM »
Quote
Cleaning your rig IMMEDIATELY is one way and perhaps the best way to lighten the impact of public perception.


This is the kind of reasponsible input I'm looking for.  It recognizes a problem and has a solution we as individuals can easily be a part of.


Quote
and we in canada don't really even get a chance to make an image for ourselves. this beer guzzling fat-redneck image came from the southern US. Not that I'm blaming them for our problems. just that we should get a chance to show people the "softer" side of 4x4ing. the side of us that respect the trails and land we tread on. i've noticed that like 75 % of the people on this site have "tread lightly" in their signitures. and everyone seems like real, down to earth people that practice what they preech.


The images exist.  Since I live near Bragg Creek I see the large numbers of great looking bikes that roll in there on the summer week-ends.  Many are ageing easy going guys who love to go out for a ride.  I see both sides there.  When I hear the muffled rumble of a Gold Wing, I get one image, when I'm wakend at 2:00 AM by either the thunder of a HD or the scream of a rice rocket, I get an entirerly different image.  

It's another area where we have an image choice.

Quote
LOUD pipes SAVE lives!


Thats good Tom.  Warped but good! :)