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Author Topic: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build  (Read 2676 times)

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Offline duck454ss

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Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« on: July 17, 2016, 07:44:47 PM »
With my engine build slowly trickling along I've had time for some forward thinking. In my 05 LJ Rubicon i have a pair of low pinion D44 with factory lockers. with the added horsepower (350-400 ish) and the eventual addition of 37+ tires i'll need added strength or a very cautious wheeling habit and light foot.

Beef-Up Option (s)

Internal Sleeves: maintains factory clearances while beefing up the tubes to prevent bending (not even sure my existing tubes are straight acutally) and are reletively cheap.
External Truss/Gussets: Requires fabrication work/prep and you lose clearance above the axle, but you end up with a reinfoced tube and inner C's leaving the weak link to mechanical pieces (gears, shafts, joints).
JanaK4 kit: allows installation of JK ring and pinion in a TJ D44 case. the upgrade here is a 8.8" ring vs 8.0" and a 1.625" pinion shaft vs 1.325".
Locker options: pretty simple in that you hae all the options in the world. personally i like the E-Locker
Axle shafts: good old chromo shafts..... funky upgrade if i was willing to chase it is using a 35 spline ARB or OX locker with custom shafts and early D44 outers and Reid knuckles fro the front axle.


Ground up Swap/Build

Front option:

Currie/Junkyard Ford 9": Allows for a high pinion front axle and all the goodies that come with a 9" (all the benefits of what i listed above). If i went with Currie i'd be able to use my OEM knuckels or go overkill and use 1-Ton knuckles. either way its cool and stronger than OEM.  Just comes at a price.....

G2 Core44: all the goodies lited in the beef up section but straight out of the box.....

Rear:

Junkyard 9": Strong.... not sure how plentiful they are these days but its an option.

Fabbed 9": its a light weight 9"...... light weight and bombproof...

Junkyard D60: cheaper than a junkyard 9", heavier than a tank, and tried tested and true. Plus the ability of using D70 R&P with a Jana76 kit.... But strength comes with size (weight) and reduced ground clearance though.

Shaved 14 Bolt: cheaper (so i'm told) than a D60, increased ground clearance, down side is limited locker options and axle upgrades.

Sixty9: How cool are these? looks like a fabbed 9" but the guts of a D60, the ability to run high pinion and a removable third member... not to mention with the use of a Jana76 i can have the strength of a D70, ground clearance and wight savings similar to a fab 9" but the cost that comes with a axles such as this.


the one thing i haven't gone over is budget...... this is because the budget is AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE while doing it right. i want the best of all worlds, light, strong, good ground clearance, and done as economically as possible.

thoughts? $0.02? ideas on where to find axles? people willing to help build axles?

Offline Vinman

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 08:41:45 PM »
.

Sixty9: How cool are these? looks like a fabbed 9" but the guts of a D60, the ability to run high pinion and a removable third member... not to mention with the use of a Jana76 i can have the strength of a D70, ground clearance and wight savings similar to a fab 9" but the cost that comes with a axles such as this.


I think you may have this backwards. I believe the 609 is a 9" centre section with Dana 60 outers.
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Offline Bnine

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 02:53:09 PM »
Traditional currie 9's used 8.8 gears. that is why "Truhi 9" came to be.

609 just refers to any blended combo of d60 and 9" components, but the most basic concept is any 35 spline 9" center section is the starting point for a 609 build.

The fronts are like Vince said, most commonly a 9" center with 60 outers.

There are literally dozens of configurations available with prices that range from 2500$ to 15000$.

Lower the cost, more junkyard and labor involved.

The most affordable, reasonably buildable rear 609 is a standard truhi 3rd member, spooled, or Detroit, fabricated housing of choice, and a currie 35 spline semi float axle kit. I built one of those with a friend years ago for under 2500$, but pricing one today I would think it would come in around 4k.

Front 609's is where it gets incredibly expensive unless you use a lot of junk yard parts. Finding someone to cut off their ford inner knuckles from a front 60 to put on a fabricated housing may be a challenge, but Im sure it can be done.

The little currie center, fabbed housing, custom shafts to use all jeep outer stuff is a decent little axle, but more suited to a stock 4 litre and 35's.

I've built a few for myself, and had a hand in building several custom 609's. If you are ever wanting to shoot the crap and talk axle talk give me a shout. The coffee's always on.

Oh ya. My rear 609 was a 35 spline full float Truhi 9 dual laod bolt, Detroit center with 538's. Superior shafts and rock crusher 60 spindles and hub kit. Custom brakes using wilwood aluminum chev calipers and chev rotors.

Entire setup came in under 300 lbs. About the weight of an 8.8 and had nearly two inches of clearance versus a shaved 14b.

My front used the same center section,  spydertrax custom knuckles (45 degree steering), F450 bearings, chev brakes, PSC full hydro, spydertrax chromo shafts and yokes, put together with d60 ctm's. That front diff came under 400lbs. A rock crusher 60 crate differential comes in at nearly 700lbs for comparison sakes. Junkyard 60's about 550lbs before you load em up with stuff.

I finished that rig 10 years ago. Beat the squirt out of it with dual tcases, a mean stroker, 38's and a heavy foot for 4 years before I sold it.

Its had several owners since, and as far as I know, nothing has failed in those diffs.

Start to finish, all the work myself, I spent 10k building those two diffs 10 years ago.

Today, to go all out and do the same, you would probably be just a hair over 20k.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 02:55:27 PM by Bnine »
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Offline Bnine

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 03:55:11 PM »
Here is my old build thread with lots of input from some pretty knowledgeable guys. Pretty old tech nowadays, but addresses a lot of what you are talking about. I was at this exact same crossroads as you when I started this thread.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/512789-rock-jock-vs-pro-rock.html

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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 06:13:15 PM »
I think you may have this backwards. I believe the 609 is a 9" centre section with Dana 60 outers.

http://www.jratoffroad.com/products/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2

its a removable third member that uses D60 carrier and gears.....

Offline Vinman

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2016, 06:51:19 PM »
http://www.jratoffroad.com/products/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2

its a removable third member that uses D60 carrier and gears.....

Interesting, never knew it existed. Thanks for posting a link.

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Quote from: Bnine link=topic=25904.msg162940#msg162940      date=1341881306

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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2016, 07:08:22 PM »
It's pretty neat and is love to build one but not sure it's worth the bling factor..... A fabbed Sixty9 rear with a fabbed 9 up front would be slick.... But big bucks...


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Offline Bnine

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 08:25:35 AM »
Can you run that 69 in hi pinion configuration?
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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 08:35:11 AM »
Yes sir.


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Offline Bnine

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 11:43:04 AM »
Sweet. I think a mega 9 is still stronger, but this looks pretty cool.
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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 02:19:37 PM »
For sake of simplicity and ease of parts I was thinking of using the Sixty9 front and back high pinion with ~99-04 F350 outer components.... Ball joint knuckles and unit bearings would be plenty strong.... Just a matter of sourcing parts and actually building it...... Or just find a pair of super 60's and narrow the front and chop one up and make a rear axle...


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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 09:16:13 PM »
question for the masses.... has anyone considered using JK knuckles on a tj? it would allow for a better unit bearing and to run beefier stubs. all that seems to be required is offset ball joints?


thoughts?

Offline w squared

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2018, 09:37:53 AM »
JK Knuckles aren't exactly wonderful, nor are the unit bearings....and the 5 on 5 doesn't leave room for locking hubs - or at least I don't think so.

If I was going to swap knuckles on any axle, I'd probably aim to go to a 5 on 5.5....or maybe an 8 lug pattern, and run locking hubs. Also purpose-built hubs for off road.


Then again, I'm running a built up JK front axle under my JK....but that's mostly 'cuz that's how I bought it.
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Offline duck454ss

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2018, 03:55:38 PM »
ya its pretty much what i think too...  just tossing the idea out there.


Offline Graveltravels

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Re: Axle Beef-Up vs Ground up Swap/Build
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 06:36:01 PM »
Personally, aim for something that will allow a locking hub. And no unit bearing. The unit bearings main draw is manufacturer side. It's built to take the wheel the manufacturer specs for 100,001km. They're not rebuildable. Easy to replace. But that's about it.


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