Calgary Jeep Association

Author Topic: "mutt" swap, your thoughts....  (Read 4272 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

OffroadChef

  • Guest
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« on: February 02, 2007, 06:34:33 PM »
Hey all,
New to this site, but not to Jeeping (ive owned for 3 years now). anyways,
I have a 93' YJ w/ 2.5, that i am swapping out in the next week here. I have bought a wrecked 89' (rear QP damage) with the AMC 258, and own an 88' comanche with the AMC I6 4.0 but its only 2 wheel drive.  the big plan is to take the engine from the comanche and the rest of the drivetrain components from the wrecked YJ(so i don't have to swap the input/output shafts on the tranny), and install them in the 93 YJ. The reason for this is the fuel injection, and extra 70 HP i will get from the inline 6. Im thinking this will be a direct bolt up (engine to tranny/tcase) ?  What you guys can maybe help me out with is should i splurge (appx 2g's) on a MP fuel injection system or rip the EFI out of the commanche and install that in the YJ. both donors are complete and i already have thought this out for a while now......your thoughts and ideas would help out. Im of course documenting this and will post pix and results later. On another note, if anyone needs the left over parts let me know, [email protected]

-Frank

Offline Gearhead

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1161
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2007, 08:05:37 PM »
Me ?  I'd prefer the MPI injection  but it looks like you are trying to work with what you've got which is OK , nothing wrong with being resourcefull and creative.

You will need to move the engine mount brackets on the YJ frame rails forward , luckily , you have an example of both configurations to measure from.

It does sound like a very ambitious project , much like the goings on here regularily.

I do have a few questions for you .........

 1 . What are you doing with the old 2.5 and drivetrain , wiring n' stuff ?
     ( this interests me )

 2.  What is happening to the Comanche carcass? and which rear axle
      is under it.  I have an 88 Comanche  too , the rear end needs        
      bearings soon.

 3.  My 88MJ is a 2.5 , which is ok , I'm not a fan of the throttle body
      injection , this ones a gas pig , . ....... If I could locate the
      neccessary items , I'd like to convert to MPI ( still keeping the 2.5 )

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2007, 10:22:29 PM »
Should be fairly straight forward.

Take all your measurements off the wrecker YJ.

Install the 4.0 and tranny combo and mount the tranny up to the wrecker t-case skid and tranny mount.

Level and center the motor to the wrecker measurements and weld your mounts in.

Then mess with the injection for a month or two  :D  :D  :D

That Renix system is supposed to be fairly easy to work with. No personal experience with it myself. I'd throw it in there if thats what I had.

MPI is nice, but gets finicky at times. Specially when you start trying to custom cut crank sensor slots into bellhousings and stuff.

Good luck. Sounds like really good project.
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

OffroadChef

  • Guest
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2007, 11:55:10 AM »
Quote from: "Gearhead"
Me ?  I'd prefer the MPI injection  but it looks like you are trying to work with what you've got which is OK , nothing wrong with being resourcefull and creative.

You will need to move the engine mount brackets on the YJ frame rails forward , luckily , you have an example of both configurations to measure from.

It does sound like a very ambitious project , much like the goings on here regularily.

I do have a few questions for you .........

 1 . What are you doing with the old 2.5 and drivetrain , wiring n' stuff ?
     ( this interests me )

 2.  What is happening to the Comanche carcass? and which rear axle
      is under it.  I have an 88 Comanche  too , the rear end needs        
      bearings soon.

 3.  My 88MJ is a 2.5 , which is ok , I'm not a fan of the throttle body
      injection , this ones a gas pig , . ....... If I could locate the
      neccessary items , I'd like to convert to MPI ( still keeping the 2.5 )


the 2.5 drivetrain is for sale, but it started to crap out on me, therefore the swap. or ill bring it to jeep stuff.

the comanche carcass, ok this is another project, but i will be cutting the box from the bed and be using it as a trailer. and its not the upgraded 44 axles anyways.

the MOPAR mpfi conversion kit is 1600 - 2100 bucks i think, depending on where you look.

OffroadChef

  • Guest
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 11:58:25 AM »
Quote from: "bnine"
Should be fairly straight forward.

Take all your measurements off the wrecker YJ.

Install the 4.0 and tranny combo and mount the tranny up to the wrecker t-case skid and tranny mount.

Level and center the motor to the wrecker measurements and weld your mounts in.

Then mess with the injection for a month or two  :D  :D  :D

That Renix system is supposed to be fairly easy to work with. No personal experience with it myself. I'd throw it in there if thats what I had.

MPI is nice, but gets finicky at times. Specially when you start trying to custom cut crank sensor slots into bellhousings and stuff.

Good luck. Sounds like really good project.


well, all in all the project is costing about 1500 bucks. the truck was 1000, and the wrecker was 550. so i guess its a budget i have to work with. i hope the renix holds up!

Offline BlackYJ

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 3392
    • http://www3.telus.net/ccjc/page0002.html
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 12:31:51 PM »
You will have to watch out for the tranny and t-case between the 258 and 4.0L.  Here are my thoughts

The tranny behind the 4.0L should be an AX-15, much better tranny than the BA-10 which I think is behind the 4.2L.  Now I do not know if the BA-10 will bolt to the 4.0L.

Next I am pretty sure the BA-10 t-case has a 21 spline input just like your 2.5L t-case, however the AX-15 requires a 23 spline input.

So what I am trying to say in an ideally world is go with the 4.0L and AX-15, but that will leave you without a t-case.  Just something to think about, because I have heard the BA-10 are not a great tranny
'95 YJ with a few mods

Offline cLAY

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2377
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 01:51:49 PM »
FYI the Renix system IS Multi Point Fuel Injection, NOT Throttle Body Injection. I would use it vs spending money on another system. Its actually a very good system, the only weakness is the CPS but I carry a spare for mine, just in case.
..

'93 ZJ, 5.2L, lifted/locked/36s..<gone>
'98 5.9er 4.10s,locked,LA,WJ knuckles

Offline Gearhead

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1161
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 04:47:39 PM »
The AX-15 was a mid year running change , partway through 89.

Easiest way to tell what's there is ...... the poogeut has a seam down the lenght of the main case , in other words , the two halves of the main case are positioned side by side , the parting line is easy to spot. The AX 15 is of a more conventional build , the sections are separated fore to aft , there is some webbing on the main case to make it stronger.

If the YJ is late 89 , it should have an AX 15 , if the original doors are still on it , it's quite possible there is a build date / spec sticker on the rear portion of the inner door.

For example , .... according to the decal on the door , my 94 was built in the spring of 94 , making it a late build ............... important to know when buying a starter ( don't ask how I know ! )

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2007, 07:47:56 PM »
I have a front half of a 4 litre 231 if you need the input to hook up the ax15.

The 4.2 and 4.0 interchange all the transmissions no prob.

Might have to hunt for an oddball pilot bushing at the worst.
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

Offline Gearhead

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1161
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2007, 11:11:39 PM »
A late 89 pilot bearing will work ............


For example :  My 88 is a bit of a Heinz 57  ,  94 -  4.0 block and head , 79 ? 4.2 crank & rods , 93 wiring and MPI conversion etc. , 90 AX15 transmission ,  the pilot bearing is a late 89 needle bearing.

A bronze bushing can be used too , easy to make one up.

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2007, 02:14:15 AM »
Quote from: "Gearhead"
A late 89 pilot bearing will work ............


Or Jeff can just tell you which one to use  :D  :D
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

OffroadChef

  • Guest
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 01:15:31 PM »
ohhhh mannn....

anyways guys, i stripped down the wrecker to the frame....we have decided to go with the 258 AMC, seeing as how we have the whole pig already put together and ready to install in the 93'. I have ordered the Howell TBI kit (for cost reasons, as the MOPAR was just too damn expensive). I was just wondering since the jeep has MPI on it and im installing a carb'd engine, what will i need to change in the wiring (i have all the wiring from the wrecker) and fuel line/rail/pump departments to get this thing on the road. The big blue limo is really starting to annoy me. any help would be greatly appreciated.

Offline BlackYJ

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 3392
    • http://www3.telus.net/ccjc/page0002.html
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 02:05:14 PM »
You will have to swap out the fuel pumps, as MPI has requirements than TBI
'95 YJ with a few mods

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2007, 02:10:25 PM »
You can swap pumps, or use an adjustable FPR so long as the stock MPI pump has enough pressure. Which Im sure it does.

But, the howell comes with an inline pump and everything is set to run together. Easiest will probably be to swap tanks and install the howell inot the non injected tank.

You can pretty much gut the MPI wiring. The howel is a self contained system.

You may have to do a bypass here or there for the ignition or something, but Im not sure. Electrical is not my strong point.

Make sure your howell comes with the 4.3vortec TB. If you ever go bigger, like a stroker in the future, all you will need is a 200$ chip from howell and your chevy TB will be enough.

They sometimes do a 3.8 throttle body with that kit, you dont want that one.

good luck
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

OffroadChef

  • Guest
"mutt" swap, your thoughts....
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2007, 05:14:42 PM »
unfortunately the wreckers fuel tank is smashed in, so i can't really swap it in. i did order the 4.3 TBI kit, but i won't be seeing it for a while.
i will be swapping the computers and wiring this weekend, and i have my fingers crossed that i won't have to bring in to a specialist to get it all done. im pretty sure 93 and 88 components are not just plug and play, there had to be some changes in there somewhere. thanks for the help guys.