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Author Topic: Hydro assist...  (Read 3075 times)

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Offline SwampSinger

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Hydro assist...
« on: January 19, 2008, 01:12:23 AM »
I was talking to Bnine and ADRC about Hydro assit... there a few nice kit out there...

but check out what I found...


http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55711&highlight=hydraulic+assist+100.00

anyone try that before?

Offline cLAY

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 02:34:33 PM »
Yep, picked up all of the stuff from P/A and drilled tapped the box(had to buy a special tap), using info I found in that thread and some from Pirate.

Was rather disappointed with it actually, lost a bit of turing radius as the ram didn't have enough travel(was short about .5" each direction). The reduction in steering effort was noticably less but not nearly as good what I had expected. I also kept burning up stock PS pumps. Would only get about 2-3 trips out of a pump before it burned up.

I would budget to also do a HD aftermarket pump and cooler with external reservoir. I also went thru 3 different types of fittings for the box before finding ones that didn't leak thru the tapped threads.

Makes buying a pre-tapped box and kit sound appealing.....
..

'93 ZJ, 5.2L, lifted/locked/36s..<gone>
'98 5.9er 4.10s,locked,LA,WJ knuckles

Offline Rookie

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 07:58:42 PM »
I was talking to Bnine and ADRC about Hydro assit... there a few nice kit out there...

but check out what I found...


http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55711&highlight=hydraulic+assist+100.00

anyone try that before?

Dom one thing I found out in researching this is that a y style linkage won't work, you need a steering set up with a tie rod that connects knuckle to knuckle and a drag links that connects to the knuckle  so after just dropping the money on my currie setup . So I will wait till it wears out before I start collecting parts for this upgrade
TJ with some stuff

Offline cLAY

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 10:17:30 PM »
Good point! Howver if you are still running the stock steering setup it won't be up to the task of ram assist anyway.

For clarification I'm running a custom D44 front with a high steer arm mounted on the passenger side knuckle. The drag ling goes directly to this arm and the tie rod sits in the stock location. The ram is mounted to a mount built into the the passenger side coil spring bucket and then to the tie rod. I had to convert to an over the axle mount trac bar to have enough room for the ram. Not sure if there is enough room for all that on a stockish D30.
..

'93 ZJ, 5.2L, lifted/locked/36s..<gone>
'98 5.9er 4.10s,locked,LA,WJ knuckles

Offline SwampSinger

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 10:54:24 AM »
Dom one thing I found out in researching this is that a y style linkage won't work, you need a steering set up with a tie rod that connects knuckle to knuckle and a drag links that connects to the knuckle  so after just dropping the money on my currie setup . So I will wait till it wears out before I start collecting parts for this upgrade

Thanks Steve and Clay ...

I have a knuckle to knuckle tye rod...

what about if you get a ram that has 1" more travel... would it take care of the stearing issue?

Offline cLAY

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 12:08:30 PM »
Probably, but ram length is usually sold in 4" increments. You could get a bigger and put spacers and the end of the stroke to limit travel. If your ram has too much travel then you'll rip your knuckles off. Also for some the ram I'm using was too long, just depends on your particular application.

If you aren't running a over the knuckle steering for the drag ling and an over the axle trac bar mount then you will need to mount the ram of of the diff cover on the driver's side as opposed to on the passenger's side like I did. I don't think that the driver's side would work for me as I think for some reason there was interference with the upper trac bar mount when I stuffed up the driver's side tire and as well there wasn't enough room passing by the passenger side coil mount/trac mount for the rod end of the ram. When you turn your wheels far left or right you will see that the tie rod actually swings IN quite close to the axle. On my setup it almost touches the passenger side mount. This is because when  built my D44 I tried to copy the D30 setup exactly. I found out later that when building a D44 most people center the coil spring on the axle(moves diff housing forward) as opposed to having the coil buckets offset forward of the axle tube. This gives more room for steering linkage.

To clarify my setup, my ram is basically mounted where the steering dampner was. I've got the axle out right now on the garage floor, its buried under some other stuff but if I get a chance I'll try to snap some pics.
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'93 ZJ, 5.2L, lifted/locked/36s..<gone>
'98 5.9er 4.10s,locked,LA,WJ knuckles

Offline 4PLAYZJ

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 05:14:35 PM »
How streetable is hydraulic assist?  I know that the steering will have no return to centre but are there any other differences?

Offline cotaman

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 07:25:12 PM »
you can get any length ram or any stroke length you want.... if you pay for it  :P
98 ZJ, 5" lift, 4.10's, 33" Dick Cepek Mud Country's, 231 swap,  winch/bumper, rock rails, lincoln locker, CB, parked, waiting to pass SK insp
01 WJ, the pavement princess that has been mirror deep in a hole
RIP -- 88 XJ, 3" Skyjacker, 31 MT

Offline 4PLAYZJ

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 11:55:04 AM »
I have been doing a lot of research.  I have been in contact with the shop that I use for hydraulic repairs and after talking to them  I may start putting these kits together and marketing them.  There is only one company that I can find that puts together a decent kit that will function properly and they are expensive.  The rest on the kits would work but not well because they dont include calibrated rams or regulators.  My question to you guys is what kind of price would attract you to one of these kits?  Keep in mind that they would be for sale in Canada, so you would not have to pay as much shipping and would not have to pay duty.

Any helpful feedback would be great. Thanks
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 12:31:50 PM by ADRC »

yjcanibul

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 12:21:41 PM »
did anyone see xtreme 4x on the weekend ? ,  they tapp'ed a toyota pump and mounted it on a suzuki running 37's I think ...

Offline cLAY

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2008, 04:54:07 PM »
How streetable is hydraulic assist?  I know that the steering will have no return to centre but are there any other differences?

You are thinking of full hydraulic steering. Ram assist still has return to center and is completly streetable because you are retaining your stock system.
..

'93 ZJ, 5.2L, lifted/locked/36s..<gone>
'98 5.9er 4.10s,locked,LA,WJ knuckles

Offline 4PLAYZJ

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 04:57:03 PM »
good to know thanks, I assumed that because of the added hydraulic assist located at the tie rod the steering would be more reluctant to return to centre.

I guess that I will find out when my truck is done.  I am going to tap the gear and modify my pump as soon as I get a chance, then I am going to get the system flow tested so I can match a cylinder to it.

I just look at all of the kits out there and there is not one(unless they are not listing all of there parts) that addresses the fact the the ram will have a slower or faster rate  on one side, unless one side is set up with a regulator.

I also have only seen one kit that has a power steering cooler with it, without one I believe that you would melt the pump in no time because of the temperatures that can be reached in a hydraulic system at these pressures.  An average automotive vane type power steering pump can be capable of generating approx 2500psi. when moded.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 05:53:34 PM by ADRC »

Offline cotaman

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 05:12:24 PM »
why would the ram hav a slower return rate thenwhen it extends...... ???
98 ZJ, 5" lift, 4.10's, 33" Dick Cepek Mud Country's, 231 swap,  winch/bumper, rock rails, lincoln locker, CB, parked, waiting to pass SK insp
01 WJ, the pavement princess that has been mirror deep in a hole
RIP -- 88 XJ, 3" Skyjacker, 31 MT

Offline 4PLAYZJ

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 05:48:26 PM »
You are right I made a mistake the rod side will be faster than the piston side.(fixed previous post)

On the pressure side of the piston that affects the extension side of the ram, the piston will have the full surface area and full chamber volume of the of the ram, in the chamber on the side that has the piston on it the area of the piston area is reduced and the chamber volume is reduced.  So if the same flow rate and pressure is applied the piston should move faster on one side than the other.  I am going to do the math to figure if the rate of travel will be affected or if only the amount of assist from one side to the other will be affected(I am finding this complicated because there are two hydraulic mechanisms in play, ram + steering box).  That is where the regulator valve comes in.  In theory it should act as an equalizer for the two sides.

I am working with a guy at a hydraulic shop and he is the one who brought the point up when I aproached him for a custom cylinder.

I am still figuring the math out.  It is a little outside of my normal realm of employment.  Tune-ups don't require math :P

I should have finished high school, if I only knew that math was actually usefull. :o
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 06:21:17 PM by ADRC »

Offline superles

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Re: Hydro assist...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 07:16:03 PM »
Just an idea for your hydro assist, as I will be building one at some point. Install a restricted orfice in the fitting at the rod end. These are available in many sizes and are also available right in the fitting, and can be drilled  and sized to control flow. One must be very careful not to cause to much of a restriction/ back pressure. This is better than a flow regulator as it is out of harms way. Due to the surface area on the piston size it will have stronger steering force in one direction, but should not effect performance.