Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Sprockett on January 17, 2009, 05:18:30 PM
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I would have thought to find alot of posts like this but didn't really.
I am new to Jeeps but considering one. I tried some offroading at the end of fall and think I would like to continue. I am in a 95 Toyota right now but breaking it is expensive and modifying even more so...plus, it seems to be worth a good price to sell it.
The Jeep will be my third car, second toy and winter vehicle...I already have another summer sports car. First I was thinking a Wrangler but I was just test driving one and it seems pretty harsh for a daily drive to work. It was a stock 98 TJ at that. So maybe an XJ would be a better choice. Basically, I need to live with it on the street (in winter especially) and want to wheel it when I can.
Budget is up for grabs but since its a third car I'm not looking at like $10,000 vehicles. Anyone want to share random thoughts? YJ vs TJ vs XJ? What do I watch out for when puchasing? What's cheap to fix and what's not?
Thanks for any input,
Ryan
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my input
yj's are cheaper to mod as they are leaf springs, much harder ride
older,.. more things break
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i have a 03 tj for a dd and i dont mind it a all remember its a jeep so the only real question is what do you need for storage space
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get a 93-96 ZJ. cheap as can be, best ride ever. do a rubicon express lift and some 32"s. great ride on the street and still fairly trail capable
make sure it has the V8.........
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agreed with the zj
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x3
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I'm biased, but believe the TJ is the best of all 3 you listed. relatively cheap to mod, more durable than a YJ just because of age and easier to mod than an XJ.
If you're looking for a TJ I've got an '02 that is in great shape for $10,000. PM me for details if interested.
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x3
x4
I had one,.. but I had to decide which jeep i was keeping,.. I miss the comfy ride! But I had just lifted the yj so I parted with the zj
I wish I could've had both,.. but there's just no room
I would also consider an xj,.. only because of the DIY how-to pages I found
http://go.jeep-xj.info/index.htm
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X5 :D
I really miss my 98 ZJ, smooth riding and all the amenities. Lifted with larger tires - it went everywhere!
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maybe immortal wil keep his tj and sell the zj or xj i cant remember ;) ::)
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Immortal will never sell the XJ he loves it lol. he has no ZJ, but we know he was in love with mine hahaha (not really) the ZJ was kicka$$ streetable rig, mine rode so smooth. only problems with it were the relative lack of aftermarket support and parts, and price. however thats changed, and for a moderate wheeler, theres plenty of small lifts and stuff out there! as i found out, not a strong build platform without $$ and fabbing abilities, but for a moderate wheeler with great street manners, it won
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I somewhat discounted the ZJ for the same reason I just sold the 4Runner. Expensive to fix, smaller aftermarket, etc. The toyota was already fine on the street and a 'decent' offroad vehicle. How does the ZJ viscous center effect offroad prowess?
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I somewhat discounted the ZJ for the same reason I just sold the 4Runner. Expensive to fix, smaller aftermarket, etc. The toyota was already fine on the street and a 'decent' offroad vehicle. How does the ZJ viscous center effect offroad prowess?
It doesn't if you swap in a 231 t-case. ;)
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the viscous coupleer in the Tcase i assume you are referring to? don't worry about it. everyone will knock the 249 tcase. i bought my ZJ and viscous coupler was gone in it; i put 50k on it and wheeled the hell out of it. i said 'i won' treplace it till it dies' it never did; and in this province all wheel drive is nice. offroad it made no difference i noticed, and i wheeled it hard
sounds like u wanted a topless jeep kind of thing? if u want something to ride nice the XJ/ZJ is ur option, and the ZJ is a lil' longer wheelbase and it has coils all around and rear discbrakes, as well as the V8 for power.......... as far as repairs, its still a jeep; everything i replaced was usually readily available and not that expensive.......
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Not to mention that you can usually pick up a parts ZJ for $500-$1000.
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I've wheeled and dd both XJs and ZJs. ZJs are defiantly more refined and nicer to drive, the V8 is loads of fun(but a bit of a gas guzzler) and the ZJ has WAY more room in backseats, a big plus if you have a family or often carry friends.
The XJ is a more economical daily driver and cheaper to lift, more aftermarket stuff and more used stuff available. Also cheaper to buy upfront. Easier to find used parts for as well.
I wheeled a daily driver XJ with 31s, 4.10 gears, rear locker and winch for almost 5years and did very well and the rig still handled well on the road.
Give us more info, how much will it be daily driven, how far do you commute(fuel economy), do you plan to tow anything(if so get a V8), how hardcore of an offroad rig do you want, what do the guys you wheel with run, got a family/how much room do you need......
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I just gave up a 95 4Runner (rashly perhaps :)) that fit a 33x12.5 tire with no lift and no ride/handle compromise. I am not an experienced wheeler, just getting started. The first time I wheeled we headed to the summit of Top of the World with barmanjay and others and the truck did fine. I took the detours on the harder obsticles and I don't want too :) I'm not 'hardcore' but I want to do more then stocker runs in the future. I guess that's the best I can do to give you an idea of what kind of trails I want to run. Really, I think the 4Runner with a rear selectable locker would maybe have been enough already but some things on it seem fragile and a selectable locker is staring down $2000. Really, I have auto ADD and just always want to try new things. I owned 7 different vehicles in 2008 to give you an idea :)
I do have a family (two kids) but I have a sedan for hauling them around. Being able to throw them in the back to head to COP snowboarded with gear in the back is actually seeming like a big plus but I'm not opposed to a roof rack for the new vehicle or the family car. Don't plan to tow anything. I will be driving the vehicle 25kms round trip to work mon-fri at least throughout the winter and preferrably the summer months too. My other toy is a dedicated autocross car that's a little harsh on the street. I don't care about gas mileage...we are all directly in the oil and gas business so I choose to look at it as an investment in my career :)
I'm really shocked about all the love for the ZJ. To be honest, if JOhnnyC's was still for sale, I'd prolly buy it right now. But the thought of building one doesn't appeal...did some reading just now and seems like lifting them introduces quite a bit of ride issues. In fact, I would rather pay for a built rig that met my needs then build one.
I really appreciate the input guys, thanks.
Ryan
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Really, I have auto ADD and just always want to try new things. I owned 7 different vehicles in 2008 to give you an idea
Auto ADD is a disease I know well... Currently have 7 Jeeps (in addition to my tow rig, my bikes and my muscle cars).
I'm going to have to say I like the TJ for wheeling. I've owned a buttload of vehicles and nothing compares with top down driving/cool factor of a TJ. It wheels well and the aftermarket is huge. They have a full frame and flopping one does not necessarily equal getting a new one. I guess the ride is a bit harsh compared to the station wagons... but with well built suspension it's really not that bad. I also think they wheel better out of the box than XJ or a ZJ. If you can find a reasonable shape Rubi... you've got a rig on 31's with lockers and a 4:1 low ratio out of the box. Throw a small lift on and you can run 33's.
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Somebody buy my damn TJ before I keep it and end up building it up. >:(
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ZJ is a sleeper........ gotta keep in mind its solid points. its like a smooth riding TJ with a V8.......... if u don't wanna get to crazy with your wheeling, you can get away with a set of 33s some custom fender trimming and a moderate lift. I did for yets as well. there are a lotta people on here who have run them and if u ask (aka me lol) you can learn lots of little tricks!
ps, mines not for sale, but for what i did to it, you can make something similar for a lot less $$$ now with lift kits getting cheaper......
or do an XJ like all those other guys LOl
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Somebody buy my damn TJ before I buy another. :D
There....fixed that for you.
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Muhahahaha!! Thanks Darcy.
If I had to do it again.... (I am crying as I type this....) I would build up a TJ. Sooooooooooooo cheap compared to an XJ or ZJ/WJ.
not mine, but cheap, like borscht!! and pretty built.
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=10238.0
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build both :D:D:D:D:
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build both :D:D:D:D:
good idea that way you can toe the TJ with the XJ and if you break the TJ on the trail you can toe it out jump in the XJ and enjoy the rest of the day wheelin where you finished off.
The best of both worlds who would have thought having a TJ and XJ would be such a good thing. RIGHT trev ;D ;D
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Ok, thanks for the input guys.
I ended up test dringing another TJ today. It was a 2001 this time and it felt much better then the last one though both are stock. This one had issues and while I'm not interested in it in particular, it has given me hope that a TJ could be a tolerable street vehicle.
So other questions?
- How bad good is the 4cyl found in YJ/TJ? I would prefer the 6 but there seem to be a few interesting 4cyl jeeps for sale right now. (http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=10238.0)
- How bad are the 3 speed autos found in 92 up 4L 6cyl YJs and TJs? I mean, 3 speed? *shudder*
- If I were going to buy an XJ, would it be dumb to end up with a AX15 5sp rather then the apparently desirable Auto?
Thanks guys,
Ryan
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Ok, thanks for the input guys.
I ended up test dringing another TJ today. It was a 2001 this time and it felt much better then the last one though both are stock. This one had issues and while I'm not interested in it in particular, it has given me hope that a TJ could be a tolerable street vehicle.
So other questions?
- How bad good is the 4cyl found in YJ/TJ? I would prefer the 6 but there seem to be a few interesting 4cyl jeeps for sale right now. (http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=10238.0)
- How bad are the 3 speed autos found in 92 up 4L 6cyl YJs and TJs? I mean, 3 speed? *shudder*
- If I were going to buy an XJ, would it be dumb to end up with a AX15 5sp rather then the apparently desirable Auto?
Thanks guys,
Ryan
Well,.. my take on the 4cyl,.. as I have one:
gutless over 80km/h
Sometime this year, I'm going to swap in v6, buuut,.. the plus side with the 4cyls is they have 4.10's for diffs vs the 3.73's or whatever the 4.0's have
The 4cyls are geared to climb very well.
Gas mileage isn't much better as the engine has to work really hard to move the jeep.
with 33's I get about 300-350ish /tank
The only reason I ended up with a 4cyl is the deal I couldn't pass up on,.. if I had a choice, I would've bought a 4.0 with a 5sp. I don't like having an auto while crawling up and down hills,.. it's really nice to engine brake down a hill with a 5sp
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Well,.. my take on the 4cyl,.. as I have one:
gutless over 80km/h
Sometime this year, I'm going to swap in v6, buuut,.. the plus side with the 4cyls is they have 4.10's for diffs vs the 3.73's or whatever the 4.0's have
The 4cyls are geared to climb very well.
Gas mileage isn't much better as the engine has to work really hard to move the jeep.
with 33's I get about 300-350ish /tank
The gutless is probably due to your 33's. Mine pulls up to 100 quite well.
With 30x9.5's I get about 400-450 on a tank.
I used to take mine to Castlegar BC over Kootenai pass and many others with no issues (other than lack of cargo space for the kids stuff).
Gas mileage is slightly better by 1US MPG than most other 6cylinders i have compared to. Great for city driving, and the occasional highway trip. Most of all it's better at wheeling than the 6. It has a near perfect 50/50 weight balance and as mentioned is geared with 4.10 diffs. Just my .15 cents.
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i have 2003 Rubicon lifted 4" with 33's, v6, stock tranny, 4:10's i think ???.. but i try not to drive over 100 with it, and it might do 120 im sure, but not gunna try it, kinda tipsy on a windy day, but if headwind, sometimes u gotta pretty much floor it, usually pretty good though, goes 350kms to a tank i believe and i drive from Airdrie to Calgary everyday, but i love it ;D, my .02 cent
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Just remember that your oversived tires are going to throw out the speedo abit, unless you have already rectified that problem.
When my speedo says 100kph I am actually doing 125ish, on my 33"s. Proven by my GPS, and the wonderful Sherriff who pulled me over. Original tires were 27". Huge difference, throws it out by 25%. Next to no torque, but hardly working the motor at 100kph (actual). about 1700 rpm in 5th gear.
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i wish mine was like that
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huh? didn't you regear?
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lucky that my speedo is right on ;)
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nice... the newer TJs you can reprogram the speedo telling the computer what tire size you have.
EDIT.
I cannot find the link to the TJ "computer speedometer regearing". All I have found is JK speedo regearing. son-of-a.... >:(
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hope you can do that in your TJ Trevor when u lift it and run 35s................... :D
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hmmmmmmmm.... >:( >:(
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it would be nice to see another ZJ out here..
but to be honest, A ZJ can be purchased for next to nothing & considering all the toys you already own.. look into a 5.9, no disappointments with this for sure. A 4L I6 is only ~1-2 gallons cheaper on fuel then a 5.2 V8. You could do the (look it up) f>r swap with all new hardware for 3.5" for under 600 bones.. achieving 32" tires.
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IROR&Category_Code=PFZ
With mine, it's a camper for the family, wife, child, dog, myself & a queen size air mattress in the back with the seat folded down is a wonderful thing.
Depends on your own personal needs, keep researching as you are & you'll find your perfect fit for your needs.
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nice... the newer TJs you can reprogram the speedo telling the computer what tire size you have.
how much newer of a tj and of course i regeared
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I just thought of another consideration. How tall is a stock YJ? TJ? Wikipedia has it listed as 72" for a YJ...that's 6' already. Is this true?
Thanks,
Ryan
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no way is a stock YJ 72" tall to the roof. My 88 is bone stock and I would guess its around 66" tops.
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Yeah, I never thought they were so tall but my search just found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Wrangler
Height
1993-95: 71.9 in (1825 mm)
1987–1992 Soft Top: 72 in (1827 mm)
1987–1992 Hardtop: 69.6 in (1769 mm)
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mine is at about 76-77" with 6" of lift and 36" iroks............
still fits in my small garage so it ain't too tall.
careful what u find off wikipedia. not always the best source!
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Apparently :) Thanks for that.
I would like whatever I buy to still fit in my parkade at work....which has a limit of 6'4" like most parkades.
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What is with the ZJ lovers.........
If you want to buy a rig to wheel, you buy a wrangler.
If you cant afford a wrangler, you buy an xj.
If you want a rig to go to the ski hill, and maybe hit a trail once a year, a ZJ is fine.
With the exception of someone like cLay who has the ability to build a ZJ into a strong trail rig, ZJ's are not for folks that want to wheel.
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Bnine....... picking on the unibody crowd again.......lol
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thats funny
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Wow...only one capable ZJ in existence, eh? ;D
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What is with the ZJ lovers.........
If you want to buy a rig to wheel, you buy a wrangler.
If you cant afford a wrangler, you buy an xj.
If you want a rig to go to the ski hill, and maybe hit a trail once a year, a ZJ is fine.
With the exception of someone like cLay who has the ability to build a ZJ into a strong trail rig, ZJ's are not for folks that want to wheel.
That's a good one!
So not true... Yes maybe not as common.. but I have seen numerous ZJ's lifted & very trail capable.. ;D
It's really to each their own..
For me, it's to set aside from the rest!
I hope I can come across the funds needed by the time I expect only to set another example of a ZJ's capability..
I suppose this is only rated for the ski hills or the mall???
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-Z7PLA&Category_Code=ZLK
here's some pic's for the soccer moms..
http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/
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http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258123
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We should settle this like Men !
No, no, no, not at the bike racks after school.... ;D
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=11081.0
A little secret CJA competition within the events?
Who will represent the station wagons?
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We should settle this like Men !
No, no, no, not at the bike racks after school.... ;D
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=11081.0
A little secret CJA competition within the events?
Who will represent the station wagons?
So are you gearing to towards the short wheelbases, or the long wheelbases?
It's kind of like apples to oranges.....good things about both.
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So are you gearing to towards the short wheelbases, or the long wheelbases?
It's kind of like apples to oranges.....good things about both.
I have a long wheel base wrangler, is that cheating? :)
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Wow...only one capable ZJ in Calgary, eh? ;D
Fixed it for you and the answer is yes.
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Awwwe mine isn't a wagon any more,...
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Dont listen to him ZJ4PLAY your jeep is cool to.
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Fixed it for you and the answer is yes.
All the more reason for another member to purchase a ZJ with hopes that it would be the second one in CGY..hehe
If I had planned on buying a common ride, I should have just stuck with a civic..
But none the less, the point is, they are plenty capable...just rare!
Can't we all just get along???
Have a good weekend everyone!
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All the more reason for another member to purchase a ZJ with hopes that it would be the second one in CGY..hehe
If I had planned on buying a common ride, I should have just stuck with a civic..
But none the less, the point is, they are plenty capable...just rare!
Can't we all just get along???
Have a good weekend everyone!
i used to think that way to dude, i wanted to make something kickass and capable, but damn if you don't have deep pockets and some welding/building skill its tough.. i mean the ZJ is cool if you won't need tires bigger than 33s and you are keeping it mostly stock to get to decent camping spots. to make it into a full blown trail rig definitely takes some work.
i got bored with it and wanted a convertible... now i have a YJ haha
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Fixed it for you and the answer is yes.
LMAO. ;D
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Well, thanks for the input guys. I ended up with a YJ...I built YJ :o In fact, waaay more jeep then I can wheel right now but I'm hoping to grow into it :D If it all checks out after an insp with Modern this week I hope to come out to the Jan31 CJA run.
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me = jealous
i wanna see
i want lockers too
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Now someone's gotta show me how to drive it :)
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Sure.... I am sure anyone of us will drive it for you. ;)
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... waaay more jeep then I can wheel ...
I wouldn't think of it that way,.. I would feel more "prepared" for greater difficulty obsticles with a jeep like that.
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congrats. Where's the pics?
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come on trial run when the snow melts thats what i did or do a winter run
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Well, thanks for the input guys. I ended up with a YJ...I built YJ :o In fact, waaay more jeep then I can wheel right now but I'm hoping to grow into it :D If it all checks out after an insp with Modern this week I hope to come out to the Jan31 CJA run.
Pics ?
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Thanks guys, just got home. Too dark for pics today but I'll get some tomorrow and post em up. I drove by the work parkade on the way home from picking her up. I squeezed in with about 1-2 cm to spare :D
Any suggestions on a jeep mechinic or shop familiar with modifying these to give her a once over?
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Thanks guys, just got home. Too dark for pics today but I'll get some tomorrow and post em up. I drove by the work parkade on the way home from picking her up. I squeezed in with about 1-2 cm to spare :D
Any suggestions on a jeep mechinic or shop familiar with modifying these to give her a once over?
CHANDA precision motorworks And Lemon-Aid offroad 287-3350 for all your 4x4 needs
Specs?
Is it blue?
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The jeep is white. Specs? I'm not sure I know or can remember what I've been told :)
93 YJ
165,000kms?
4.0L 5 spd
Homemade abs snorkel?
231 transfer case
Fixed yoke kit
Custom drive shaft
Pro Comp Coil Spring Conversion
Maybe 5" lift?
35x12.5x15 Goodyear MTRs x 5 on AR steelies
Rancho RS 9000X Shocks
Dana 44 Rear w/custom Hi-Angle Yoke
Dana 30 front
4.10 gears
On board air tank
Front & Rear ARB Air Lockers
Warn M8274 Winch 8000lbs?
Swing out tire carrier
Custom bumpers, corner & rocker guards
Cut out fender flares
LED tail lights
CB radio and whip
Hooker header
Came with a couple half doors...various tops I have no idea how to use. Has full interior carpet and back seat. Good glass on the hardtop. Only thing I don't like are the electrical work. Messy in my opinion. Dash is missing the bottom I think...things hanging down, etc.
The seller is actually not currently in town (works up north) and although I have been in contact with him constantly, there were a couple things me and his roomate could not find in the garage when I picked up the vehicle. Various manuals for winch, locker, etc...the winch harness for the controls, misc stuff I'll have to pick up when he's back in a couple weeks.
I'll get pics up tomorrow am
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sounds like a nice rig congrats
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Ok, here are some pics of the good, the bad and the ugly
Full album here: http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04564.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04545.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04539.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04550.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04542.jpg)
(http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/ryansclarkcar/Jeep/DSC04555.jpg)
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BAD A$$
i like it can't wait to get on the trails with ya
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Hot shiggedy-darn! Talk about beginner-buyer's luck! Nice rig....
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Slick rig man i wish my first jeep was like that lol i got a soccer mom mobile instead
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I went with him yesterday to pick it up, definitely a nice rig. And there was about 2 inches to spare getting into the parkade. :P
Slick rig man i wish my first jeep was like that lol i got a soccer mom mobile instead
Easy on the soccer mobile comments, lol. ;)
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Hmmm...those fenders might a bit too far gone to fix. Maybe you should just swap them out for some new flat fenders ;D
Congrats on what looks to be a great rig!
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nice rig!!!
do my eye deceive? did I see a coil conversion on that rig?
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You are correct Jay. It's a procomp kit however which I haven't read great things about...I mean, magazines say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread but user aren't as enthusiastic.
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You are correct Jay. It's a procomp kit however which I haven't read great things about...I mean, magazines say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread but user aren't as enthusiastic.
I'll tell you one thing tho,.. it's better than a leaf spring lift!
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So, as suggested, I brought the jeep today to Jay and Chanda. Great guy to deal with btw. There is definitely a laundry list relatively small of things he found. The price he gave me for fixing it all was so great it's all getting done right...right down to new wiper blades :o
Some U-Joints needed replacing and persuant to this thread: http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=11262.0 I'm getting them replaced with more heavy buty, greasable replacements. The most perhaps disturbing issues were two missing body bolts (http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=11296.0) and some water/contanimants in the rear diff. Given the great price for service, I'm still quite happy with the purchase and it should be tip top in a couple days. My current plan is to be out this weekend on the Stocker run.
Thanks,
Ryan