Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Pookapotamus on April 14, 2009, 08:35:41 AM
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has any one tried the K&N intake system for their 4.0L? I am looking to get a little more grunt and perhaps better milage. i am planning on going with a 62mm trottle body soon too and was wondering what every one thinks of the K&N. i am running a stock filter system at the moment and i know that there is no trail jammer kit for my year of XJ.
any comments?
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My opinion... Don't waste your money. There's not much you can bolt onto a stock 4.0 that will help much in the horsepower dept. You can add a cam or go stroker to get some more power out of 4.0 but the usual intake/exhaust/chip don't give you too much.
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I think it was last months 4 Wheeler Mag that did a Cool Air Intake shoot out on a 4.o L Jeep (TJ or YJ can't recall).
They were seeing gains of around 10-15 hp with some intakes.
These were dyno tested results.
But a 5 - 10% gain in HP isn't bad for a couple hundred dollars in my opinion.
Some of the intakes hurt the overall HP, but most increased HP and Reduced TQ slightly, so be careful what you buy.
If memory serves correct K&N FIPK was middle of the pack as far as performace went.
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well i have allready ordered it just because napa is getting it to me for $75 and k&n claims 7 hp gain, i figure when i go with a better trottle body this will really help
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K&N filters just let more dust into your engine
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i had one before on my blazer and loved it.
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i put a K&N cone filter on my 4.0L's stock intake pipe and the jeep lost alot of beans..
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Doug was that the cone from a Tahoe u were talking about? i think your jeep has more aftermarket chevy parts on it than Jeep ;)
is napa getting you the whole intake or just a filter?
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hahaha well it was a jeep thing but all that sh*t broke...
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it was the complete cold air intake kit. installed it last night, it is a little better at low rpm and much better over 3000 rpm, alot better trottle responce and passing has improved greatly! all in all i am quite happy with the $75 buck i spent.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/pookapotamus/IMG00096.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/pookapotamus/IMG00097.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/pookapotamus/IMG00098.jpg)
hmm sorry pics from the blackberry are a little fuzzy i will have to pull out my other camera and snap a few.
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i got a used cold air intake off a newer wrangler 4L and it fit almost perfect on my 2.5 l and i noticed a better gain and more fuel economey
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K&N filters just let more dust into your engine
X2
wish I still had my stock intake, K&N is BS that wrecks your engine unless you wash it once a week and everytime you go offroad, but even then. They're only for high modded street racers as far as im concerned.
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The more dirt thats in a K&N the better it filters. I've heard of the 2nd gen 7.3L powerstrokes (oval cone filters) colapsing K&Ns and dusting motors, no warranty. Now I try to push customers towards other brands unless they're really stuck on the brand.
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other brands such as.....?
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the other issue is if you barry the nose it will let more water into the engine, also can get very clogged with crap from the trail.
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other brands such as.....?
AEM
Green Filter
Injen
Volant
Trueflow
Airaid
Banks
AFE
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I use Trueflow. Expensive, but significantly higher filtration then cotton, better flow, and more capability to retain water if it takes a small drink.
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The more dirt thats in a K&N the better it filters.
not how I understand it. The more dirt comes in, the less amount of oil there is to clot it. Thus the dirtier it gets, the more garbage it lets in.
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The more dirt that packs in the smaller the spaces are for dirt to go through, less air but more filtering.
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The more dirt that packs in the smaller the spaces are for dirt to go through, less air but more filtering.
yea, but it's not the cotton that filters it's the oil. when the oil runs out, by soaking into to much dust/dirt, there is none left for filtering. So any space is just that, a space for contaminants to bypass the filtering oil. The cotton just acts to hold the captured material.
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cool blue has some pretty good cold air intakes, if you decide to go cool blue close your eyes and open your wallet.
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Everything i have read shows hp gains in the NON useable rpm range ;)
i used to use K&N on my jeep. Never again. My throttle body was toast from oil blow by.
How much oil is too much, enough, too little? Good luck!
i only used stock paper filters on my rubi. Its the only way i would go.
My truck and wifes car have the cold air bling but they don't see much mud.
My dirtbike uses a oiled filter but it gets cleaned and re applied a lot.
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My dirtbike uses a oiled filter but it gets cleaned and re applied a lot.
Also the foam used in them is a much more efficient filtration media then the cotton stuff commonly used by KnN and other "cold air" types.
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what about those edelbrock style filters?
got the mesh n foam in it
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Ooooooooooooo
After reading all of this , I'm afraid now , afraid I've ruined every vehicle I 've owned since the seventies by running a K&N filter in pretty much everyone of them.
NOT
They work , it's that simple and they are servicable.
Paper is ok , till it's saturated with water , oil treated cotton guaze is far more forgiving in wet conditions.
To prolong the service interval on my YJ ,and to capture some of these engine wrecking chunks of dirt and rock , to lessen the likelyhood of water droplets getting by the filter I use a K&N rain sock / pre filter / cover thingy. I never plow into a water hole at speed , that's just asking for a hydrolocked engine. On this one , the intake is up high enough that , my distributor is fully submerged first , which would kill the engine any ways . Stalled / dead in the water ? , would also be the case if I bought one of those gay snorkels and sawed a hole in a fender to install it that on there , HA , NEVER gonna see a snorkel on anything I drive.
I guess the dyno at work is wrong , and K&N filters suck and I should hang my head in shame for replying to this discussion.
I like them
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well after reading the posts I figured I would ad my 2cents..... the article a while back in 4wd or offroad magazine did a great comparison over several brands, testing in 2 ways power gains and by the amount of dust held in each filter..... If I remeber correctly K&N was middle of the pack for both tests but came in alot cheaper. I believe Air Raid was near the top in both tests. I checked online and could not find the results however I did come across this test that was done on a 4.0 and the results were interesting.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/engine/129_0902_jeep_4_liter_engine_upgrades/engine_rebuilding_equipment.html
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Ooooooooooooo
After reading all of this , I'm afraid now , afraid I've ruined every vehicle I 've owned since the seventies by running a K&N filter in pretty much everyone of them.
NOT
They work , it's that simple and they are servicable.
Paper is ok , till it's saturated with water , oil treated cotton guaze is far more forgiving in wet conditions.
To prolong the service interval on my YJ ,and to capture some of these engine wrecking chunks of dirt and rock , to lessen the likelyhood of water droplets getting by the filter I use a K&N rain sock / pre filter / cover thingy. I never plow into a water hole at speed , that's just asking for a hydrolocked engine. On this one , the intake is up high enough that , my distributor is fully submerged first , which would kill the engine any ways . Stalled / dead in the water ? , would also be the case if I bought one of those gay snorkels and sawed a hole in a fender to install it that on there , HA , NEVER gonna see a snorkel on anything I drive.
I guess the dyno at work is wrong , and K&N filters suck and I should hang my head in shame for replying to this discussion.
I like them
And this dyno at work. Give me the #'s and at what rpms the performance is seen.
The Performance reality vs myth has been covered ad nauseum on the net for years.
i believe in summary, that performance gains are seen at rpm ranges that we do not USUALLY run our rigs at. So, not really a performance gain is it?
As for your years of wrecking engines? it is probably true but you never looked at the throttle body to see how much oil gets through the filter,
OR
you have the right formula for how much oil you spray on the filter after you clean it. The sock is a good ides for real dusty conditions (following a convoy on the 940 comes to mind)
But you are a Gearhead and i am most certainly not. lol.
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well I am completely unable to find the article on the amount of dsut each filter is capable of holding, however, Jpmagazine did this tech bit not to long ago... http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/engine/154_0804_jeep_wrangler_intake_shootout/index.html
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Tom , the dyno at work is for bikes only. I have tested hundreds of motorcycles with and without K&N filters , the combinations are endless, on a motorcycle they work. Having never dyno'ed a Jeep , I can not confirm any losses or gains.
What I can cofirm is , on my 94 YJ , which has the 2.5 , that motor liked the cold air intake kit . That one is an Air raid , is baffled to shield the inlet from high temps , it's pretty much the same thing as a K&N kit. It's less restrictive , that's a given , where , in the power band the performance difference actually is matters not to me , a 2.5 can use all the help it can get.
And the cool sound ! like turning the air cleaner cover upside down on dads Chevy Impla.
My stroked 4.7 YJ , it just seemed like , the thing to do , that one is a K&N , it's also baffled and shielded from engine heat , measurable power difference ? , who knows , there's so much other Whoo Haw done to that engine . Now that Jeep deserves to go on the dyno but hasn't yet.
Did I mention the cool Whaaaaaaa engine sound ?
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ha,ha,ha...
sound is kewl Jeff! ;D
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By coincidence , today , I began tearing down the 2.5 in the 94. It's had the air raid intake on it for a year and a half , the filter is still pretty clean . I washed it with K&N air filter cleaner , it's set aside to dry , then will get re-oiled .
What's relevent , as far as this discussion goes is the throttle body , it's clean and will need nothing in preparation for re-assembly of the engine. This one is a mall crawler, Hammer down all the time but it is a pavment princess.
What's wrong with the 2.5 ? , nothing at all to do with the intake , it's been run hard & run low on oil repeatedly ( female driven) .
The 88 YJ see's use as a part time DD , trail use and whatever else I can dish out. I
The K&N that's on the 88 YJ , it's been cleaned once since I bought it and could use another cleaning here real soon , the water repellant sock does prolong the service interval.
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My '88 YJ I use a K&N in a stock air cleaner assembly which is great for keeping the element dry, maybe have a little less power but it gets me around town ,up and down the hills, and through the mud and water. just my 2 cents
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not how I understand it. The more dirt comes in, the less amount of oil there is to clot it. Thus the dirtier it gets, the more garbage it lets in.
I had read about this a while back, this is what I found today, There are dry filters made by AFE they produce the charge that catches particles a different way
1. Dirty & turbulent air enters the filter
2. Multi-layer cotton gauze oil impregnated material
3. Dirt stays on the outside layers of the filter
4. Special oil produces a static charge to the cotton media
5. Epoxy coated Marine grade aluminium wire mesh
6. High performance is achieved by the clean & smooth air stream that enters the engine
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They arent bad if you stay out of the crap and keep an eye on them. I dusted my original engine and washed out all my bearings with a drop in KnN.
Last year at ACE Brink couldnt drive over 30mph because 1 dusty day clogged his brand new KnN so bad is nearly sealed shut.
Thats the problem with an oiled filter in a dusty enviroment. The oil attracks the dust and causes clogging. Which of course eliminates any of the additional airflow you might have had when it was originall installed.
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I don't know if anyone talked about this but you can get those little prefilter bags teh go over your cone filter. Not sure if they restrict flow or how well they work, they are water resistant as well.
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apparently they do offer the dry bag filter cover. i have not yet looked into how much they cost but i am pretty sure if you look at the k&n website and find the number of the one you are looking for that napa can order it in for you.
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The pre filter bags work very well. The only thing is they cut airflow back to what the stock filter is, so It kind of defeats the purpose of the high flow filter
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Usually though if you are doing a CAI system with an open filter element it will be larger than what the stock filter is so you're still ahead...