Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: sebasshole on April 23, 2009, 10:06:54 PM
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Hey everyone i have another problem.
So today i got stuck yet again. and instantly the truck died.
The truck will start but dies rite away. Sometimes if i hold the gas down it
will rev up, and will stay if i keep the revs above 4500 RPM
So i got the truck out and home and i let it sit to dry for a couple hours.
The truck will still start and die. iv been doing some research and theres alot
of info but everything says something different. im hoping my local forum can help
me. its a 88 jeep cherokee LTD 4.0L 206 000km
I appreciate all the help everyone.
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My guess is ... Crank Position Sensor. I've had similar type issues in a couple of my XJ's and it was the CPS. Turn the key on the engine fires... revs up and dies right away.
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x2
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Cubed.
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yes if i turn the key and hold it to the start position it will run, but if i give it throttle
the truck will die. Still the crank position sensor? And if so where is the CPS sensor?
I guess step one is to clean it and see if it works, 2 is replace it. 3 if that doesnt work
keep searching. Im gona try tommorow thanks for the help Everyone!
first forum i have ever been on thats local and actually helps within a couple hours.
Iv been on forums where iv waited for days for a single reply or tip lol
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Sorry, if i turn the key and hold it. the truck will stay on and rev,
but if i put it into gear it will die.
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You have to hold the key in the start position to keep it running? or it just stays running on its own til you give it any gas?
If thats the case then its not the CPS. Bad CPS = turn key sounds like it starts but dies immediately. Doesn't matter what you do with the gas... it just dies.
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it sounds silly but slam your rear hatch door and try again ......... mine didnt like to run with the rear hatch open a bit
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that IS weird....
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change your fuel filter
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Ballast resistor for fuel pump.
Its located on the fender wall near the airbox. Looks like a white porcelain box with two wires on it. Make sure one didn't come off. Try connecting the wires directly together.
Its purpose is to reduce the voltage going to the fuel pump to make it run quieter. Early model XJs had consumer complaints about noisy fuel pumps. This was done as a cheap fix to quiet things down. When the key is in the start position the ballast resistor is bypassed and pump recievies full 12V. In the on position the power for the pump goes thru the resistor kicking down the voltage and making it quieter.
After the wire jiggled off for the third time on my '89 XJ from bouncing on the trails I just connected the wires together and bypassed the resistor. No more problems.....
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next thing to check TPS
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Sounds like TPS to me too
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So i changed the distributor.
cleaned all the plugs.
cleaned the tps sensor
throttle body
and the other sensor on throttle body
now it wont even start just turns over.
next is the cps sensor.
Anyone know a cheap backyard mechanic that i can take this too.
its my daily driver that doesn't work lol
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Check the CPS first.
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So 45 min of stress and i replaced the CPS sensor, across the street on the side of the road...
still no start.
BUT! i did replace the distributor and i read online, that the distributor needs to be put in
a specific way so they timing is correct.
Now i tryed and i cant figure it out. I am wondering if anyone lives in the far south and could
help me do it for a case of beer or something. Help would be greatly appreciated.
I guess this is the last possible problem that it could be.
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ok
you need to clarify what exactly you did to your jeep before it started to act up.
if nothing then it couldnt be that your distributor is wrong.
fyi: you cant clean a tps. when it goes, thats it - replace it.
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I like the one about slamming the rear hatch....I wonder what the tecnical explination for this would be? I think this is a great thread and I want to put my tecnical expertise forward. " try jacking up the licence plate and driving a different truck under" I have tried this and have had great success. (Try slamming the rear hatch first and let me know how that goes.) Cheers!! :P
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i think its called an inertia switch ...... most times filled with mercury on older stuff ....kills the engine in a roll over !!!! but thanks for your idiot responce to someone trying to help !!!!
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I believe inertia switches are more commonly found on Ford vehicles...have never heard of one on a Jeep.
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but thanks for your idiot responce to someone trying to help !!!!
He was making a smartass comment... I appreciate the humour in his response, and possibly sebasshole did as well.
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Yea no kidding good f***ing joke, i got a good one myself.
Next time your stuck in mud or something breaks, take the keys to your jeep and toss them as far as you can.
then leave the pos and walk home.
But thanks for the comment on slamming the hatch, theres alot of info on the web saying that the alarm on some models
can be jammed and giveing all the doors and hatch a good slam can fix it, or else locking and unlocking the driver door.
so its obvious you know more then numbnuts above.
Im gona try replacing the tps sensor tommorow since i have been informed that cleaning it doesnt make a difference.
As for the distributor, i put the motor to TDC, clocked the slot in the block to 11, set the rotor to 4, when i put it in, the rotor moved
to the 6 oclock position every time, then i connected the plugs and still no start. hopefully the tps works.
if not anoyone wanna buy a parts xj? everything works i just cant figure out why it wont run maybe someone on here can.
600 obo?
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ok
you need to clarify what exactly you did to your jeep before it started to act up.
if nothing then it couldnt be that your distributor is wrong.
fyi: you cant clean a tps. when it goes, thats it - replace it.
sorry missed that.
I was driving it just outside of calgary and i got stuck in some deep mud and snow up to the front headlights.
The truck instantly stalled and would not start and stay running. so i got it towed out and into town.
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Sheeeeesh.... throw a little humour into it, and the whole world comes crashing down.
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I meant nothing personal by my comment about "the rear hatch" I laughed to myself because I have found myself slamming the rear hatch/doors/hood and swearing a blue streak at my POS on occaison. I just saw the humur and pure satisfaction one can get from something like that, but never saw the technical prowess of the action. From now on I am commited to starting all repairs with this endeavor. CHEERS MATE! :D
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so i replaced the TPS sensor. still no start.
but i noticed that you cant hear the fuel pump prime before startup.
anyone know how much a new one costs. and do i have to drop the tank
to replace it?
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Yes you will have to drop the tank...... I find it hard to imagine that the pump quit do to being in water/mud as it is sealed internally in the tank itself, more likely is that you tore a wire off from the sending unit while having it pulled out of the mud. I have been on the trail with some one who had this happen (I may have some responsibility as I encouraged her to see hoe deep the particular hole was) while pulling the vehicle out (backwards.... a forward extraction was not an option) a branch manged to hang up underneath and rip out all four wires....... does your fuel gauge show an accurate reading? any ways it is a simple fixand a good opportunity to better locate the wires out of harms way.
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well i figure it was old and it decided to quit when i was being rough on it.
aparently i dont have to drop the tank
http://www.allpar.com/SUVs/jeep/fuel-pump.html
im gona get under there and check all the wires and maybe replace the pump. if someone tryed to
prime the truck while i was under i should hear it rite?
this jeep is getting me alittle ticked off. its my first domestic ever and so far not so good.
honda FTW
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There should be a port somewhere on the fuel rail that has a valve in it that look a bit like a tire valve. If you push on the stem and a good spray comes out then the pump is probably ok.
Did you check the ballast resistor like I described?
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as much as i dont like getting abuse ............if you bang on the bottom of your fuel tank well someone turns it over it will normally fire if its the fuel pump (this only works a couple times ) ...........its worth a try !! ;)
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Im gona try that tommorow morning before i pull it out.
I picked up a new fuelpump from good ol doublej
and i noticed the fuel filter was wet in gas and was dripping. :0
so i bought a new fuel filter and replaced it, still no start.
but im confident in the fuel pump not working.
i checked the fuel rail and i cant find what your are describing.
i foound a little round silver thing that looks like a valve cap but i cant get it open.
Either way it has spark and sounds like no fuel.
im gona give it a shot tommorow and let you guys know.
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Before you go and replace the pump,.. check the books to see if there is a fuel pump relay or a fuse (do the easy things first)
I know gm's have a relay and that goes on occasion as well as a fuse.
Then perhalps try and find what wires are leading to your pump and jump them to see if you get action.
on an old dakota I replaced a pump when I didn't need to *grumbles*
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yea i searched and checked every fuse and relay.
the ones under the dash drivers side. passenger side relays engine bay
and the 2 or 3 on the drivers side engine. they all are fine.
wires im gona try to jump them before i ppull out the pump
thanks for the headsup!
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Did you check the ballast resistor?
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where and what is the ballist resistor
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Ballast resistor for fuel pump.
Its located on the fender wall near the airbox. Looks like a white porcelain box with two wires on it. Make sure one didn't come off. Try connecting the wires directly together.
Its purpose is to reduce the voltage going to the fuel pump to make it run quieter. Early model XJs had consumer complaints about noisy fuel pumps. This was done as a cheap fix to quiet things down. When the key is in the start position the ballast resistor is bypassed and pump recievies full 12V. In the on position the power for the pump goes thru the resistor kicking down the voltage and making it quieter.
After the wire jiggled off for the third time on my '89 XJ from bouncing on the trails I just connected the wires together and bypassed the resistor. No more problems.....
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Ballast resistor for fuel pump.
Its located on the fender wall near the airbox. Looks like a white porcelain box with two wires on it. Make sure one didn't come off. Try connecting the wires directly together.
Its purpose is to reduce the voltage going to the fuel pump to make it run quieter. Early model XJs had consumer complaints about noisy fuel pumps. This was done as a cheap fix to quiet things down. When the key is in the start position the ballast resistor is bypassed and pump recievies full 12V. In the on position the power for the pump goes thru the resistor kicking down the voltage and making it quieter.
After the wire jiggled off for the third time on my '89 XJ from bouncing on the trails I just connected the wires together and bypassed the resistor. No more problems.....
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Ballast resistor for fuel pump.
Its located on the fender wall near the airbox. Looks like a white porcelain box with two wires on it. Make sure one didn't come off. Try connecting the wires directly together.
Its purpose is to reduce the voltage going to the fuel pump to make it run quieter. Early model XJs had consumer complaints about noisy fuel pumps. This was done as a cheap fix to quiet things down. When the key is in the start position the ballast resistor is bypassed and pump recievies full 12V. In the on position the power for the pump goes thru the resistor kicking down the voltage and making it quieter.
After the wire jiggled off for the third time on my '89 XJ from bouncing on the trails I just connected the wires together and bypassed the resistor. No more problems.....
Rply #10 on the first page.
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Man is everybody sitting on thier quote/reply button at the same time or what? No wonder people in offices get fired for doing squat all day. ;D
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It ok I'm filling in for mt boss this week..... ;)
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checked the ressisotor it was loose so i jumped the resistor i dont care for it,
its to make the fuel pump run quiter, when i cant hear it anyways.
knocked on the tank, no start. changed the fuel pump. still no prime and no start.
pushed the nipple on the fuel rail i got a squirt of fuel then nothing.
checked the fuel pump relay replaced it with new one, clicks when i turn the ignition.
pump does not prime still. LIKE WTF! im getting very very angry.
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test too see if you have power at the fuel pump..... if there is now power there follow the wireing back and look for any breaks/shorts and test at the next junction point or connector, keep following it back until you find power. you can also test at all the fuse, resistor or at the ballist resistor using a trouble light.
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checked the ressisotor it was loose so i jumped the resistor i dont care for it,
its to make the fuel pump run quiter, when i cant hear it anyways.
knocked on the tank, no start. changed the fuel pump. still no prime and no start.
pushed the nipple on the fuel rail i got a squirt of fuel then nothing.
checked the fuel pump relay replaced it with new one, clicks when i turn the ignition.
pump does not prime still. LIKE WTF! im getting very very angry.
When you say you "jumped" the resistor did you just take the wires off and connect them together?
Its normal for the pump NOT to pump with the engine not running. When you turn the key on the pump should run for a few seconds to build up pressure then stop. When cranking, the pump will startup again and will run continously while the engine is running.
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When you say you "jumped" the resistor did you just take the wires off and connect them together?
Its normal for the pump NOT to pump with the engine not running. When you turn the key on the pump should run for a few seconds to build up pressure then stop. When cranking, the pump will startup again and will run continously while the engine is running.
yea i connected the two wires.
It doesnt prime at all, i cant hear anything, i can hear the relay click but thats about it.
Then i check the valve on the fuel rail and i get a tiny squirt not strong or anything just a burp of fuel.
could i have put the distibutor in wrong and it will not prime and start. it turns over, and i checked for spark and its sparking.
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Fuel pump
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iv changed and done
Distributor.
fuel pump
fuel filter
battery
fuel filter relay
TPS sensor
CPS sensor
balist resistor
cleaned all the clips and sensors and applied conductivity grease
checked all fuses and relays
tommorow im gona check all the clips fuses sensors relays and wires with a volt meter
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You've tried alot, maybe check if the ground on the fuel pump plug is grounding after you've checked the plug for power. You might have a good pump and power to it, but without a ground or a sometimes ground it won't work. My $0.02
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Ignition swtitch on the steering column? Just guessing now sorry.....
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so i checked all the wires to the pump, followed them from the pump to the ground,
no shorts or anything, i cleaned the ground with a grinder for better connectivity.
still no start or prime
i followed the positive all the way to the stearing column, no shorts.
no prime no start
i cut the positive and ran it directly to the battery. NOW the pump turns on.
but still no start.
now what could it be, somewhere under the dash into the engine bay something is not working
and why is it still not starting, it is cranking over. but no start!
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ecm?
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where is the ecm located?
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Under the dash to the right of the steering column.
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ok well i checked under the dash and though it was on the passenger side so i found a ecu looking thing.
one clip going to it, i unpluged it and blew the dust of the clip and plugged it back it,
dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn now it wont start or even crank over.
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OMG its the DEVIL jeep !!!! ..........sorry to hear your having such a head ache with this .........i have a really BIG hammer when it all gets to much
GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!
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Do you have fire insurance?
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no unfortunetly lol, but it is for sale $350 whoever wants to take it for parts or to fix
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Had a similar problem with a chevy blazer, cranked but no start, good spark , intermittent fuel, turned out to be a fried ecm after going through a deep water crossing. Spent big $$$ and a couple months replacing everything, but in the end it was the ecm. Tricky thing is they don t give a code when they go, they just die
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Damn Seb........what a pain that thing has been for you. I could pull the ecm out of my '88....flatdeck should be showing up tonight or tomorrow hopefully we can pull it out before. Give me a shout tom....
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I had an old ford that did that. There was a loose/ broken wire right off the igniton When it was in the start postion, it would crank and fire, but when it went back to the run position, the power was gone.
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last attempt at getting it to start, anyone in the south that can help me make sure the timing
on the distributor is correct. its cranking, its getting fuel and spark but no start.
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When you start it hold the key forward and keep the starter engaged,.. I know its horrible to do but if it keeps running I would recheck your power to your fuel pump,.
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yea it nolonger starts. when it first broke down it would start and stay running when i held the key in the on position.
i really do think the timing is off. im getting fuel to the fuel rail now.
im gona try another couple attempts to get the timing rite and look some things over
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If you haven't pulled your distributor or loosened it to adjust it, I would look else where. Not that you haven't tried just about everything else. Could your new CPS be a shitter right out of the box?
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Where are you in the city?
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I removed the distributor and replaced it. after that the jeep would not start and run.
I really think its timing considiring i have replaced just about everything there is to replace lol
I am in the southwest. Somerset!
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ya i would go with timing as well ...... is it a splined distributor or notched ?....... if its notched it will only fit in 2 ways pull it out turn it 180 degrees and try that if its splined then you will have to line every thing up TDS (Top Dead Center) And find where # 1 fires from .............. did you remove all the plug wires when you relaced the distributor if so make sure your firing order is correct ........I'm kinda of an idiot when it comes to this stuff but i have wensday off i might be able to come take a look then if it still wont start
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So thanks to the help of LEMON-AID JAY ! i think i got a good idea of what is the problem
after foolin around with the timing i got it to turn over and start. but still starts and dies.
So after looking around we figured that the best bet is ignition switch.
Im gona stop by his shop tommoorw for a wiring diagram and off to autovalue for a new ignition switch.
Let you guys know how it goes.
Thanks again LEMON-AID JAY!
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Best of luck with it, let us know how it goes. :)
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So i changed the ignition switch.
STILL NO LUCK! BUT
I wired the fuel pump directly to the battery and boom.
it started and stayed at idle on its own. but running very rough
timing must be still off and i guess i gota make a switch for the fuel pump?
any ideas
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Find keyed power and run a remote wire to a relay, but the fuel pump doesn't run constantly,, so this will let you get it going and time it but I'd try to find out what shorted itself in the water.
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So i changed the ignition switch.
STILL NO LUCK! BUT
I wired the fuel pump directly to the battery and boom.
it started and stayed at idle on its own. but running very rough
timing must be still off and i guess i gota make a switch for the fuel pump?
any ideas
I knew it,.. is your ballast resistor 100% removed?
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no i just ran the wires directly to eachother. if i run the to the resistor it doesnt make a difference.
i need to take it to someone to get the distributor timed better, i cant get it rite.
either it doesnt start and run or else it runs rough.
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this maybe a dumb question, but did you put the new wires on the cap in the proper location. I replaced my wires and cap, and started at no.1 on the cap and followed the firing order. Started it up and it ran but like a turd, then I turned my brain on and realised that I went around the cap the wrong way. After switching the wires it ran good again.
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yea i got the wires on correctly. im thinking the timing is off by a tooth or two
runs like its misfiring. any easy ways of setting the motor to top dead center?
maybe im doing that wrong.
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Take out the spark plug for #1 cylinder, stick something long in the spark plug hole, turn crank until #1 is at the top of its stroke. When you feel the piston at the top you are at TDC.
Ps. Don't break anything off in there.
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I assume its an XJ ,.. that being said the dizzy goes in one way only and the ecm takes care of the rest This may be a shot in the dark but checkyour rotor,..The tab that goes to the centre post of the cap, make sure its in one piece and that the contact tip that designates spark has managed to turn or move,.. I have had both happen,..
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its a xj but the dizzy doesnt go in one way, i wish it did, every single car i have ever owned only go in one way.
but yea i tryed to stick a long extenstion in the whole of plug one, i bent it lol.
but is there a more efficent way.? i had it running so i tryed it again. now it doesnt start again
and im sure it was at tdc. lol this is getting out of controll.
a couple more attempts tommorow then hopefully it runs better.
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i tryed to stick a long extenstion in the whole of plug one, i bent it lol.
:o
Um, yeah! Going to pretend I didn't read that. Look in the spark plug hole with a small flash light when you think you are at TDC, if you see the piston at the top you are at TDC.
TDC for timing is during the compression stroke, plug the hole with your finger. When you feel compression on your finger look in the hole and stop turning when the piston is at the top.
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The dizzy has a key way slot that the hold down bolt goes into to lock it,..