Calgary Jeep Association

4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: WhiteOut on July 09, 2009, 03:49:29 PM

Title: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: WhiteOut on July 09, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=468&submit=Go

This has got to be one of the most unsafe this I have ever seen, and it's even more alarming that a magazine even printed this.  Connecting straps like this or using this as a method of attatching straps to your vehicle is entirely unacceptable and if you do this I doubt that anyone would pull you out of this was your recovery setup.

If you absolutely have to connect two straps, use a shackle.  The method that I prefer is to tie the two together using the loop ends, its a bit harder to get undone but there is no 5lb shackle that becomes a missile if it does break.
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: SwampSinger on July 09, 2009, 04:20:36 PM

If you absolutely have to connect two straps, use a shackle.  The method that I prefer is to tie the two together using the loop ends, its a bit harder to get undone but there is no 5lb shackle that becomes a missile if it does break.

there is an error on the link for some reason but nevertheless....

Please NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use a shackle to connect 2 straps together.... Like you mentioned ... make a loop with the other strap and use a small piece of wood in the loop when it gets tight so you can undo it easy after the pull.

If you need to know how .. I will show you guys at the next meeting. 

Using a shackle = DEATH...

it's like putting a nut at the end of a rubber band 100X bigger... It would hurt if you get the nut in the forehead.... Imagine a shackle...

Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: w squared on July 09, 2009, 04:22:11 PM
Linky no worky...404 error.

You're 100% correct about connecting loop ends. If you put a short stick in the middle, it prevents them from getting too tight and you still avoid installing a five pound missile into your recovery system. Shackles between tow straps = bad juju

Edit: Looks like I said the same thing as Dom, but was slower.
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: Caddy on July 09, 2009, 06:13:51 PM
http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=468&submit=Go!

about half way down the page they show a picture using 2 tow hooks bolted together to attach 2 straps.
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: mrjeep4 on July 09, 2009, 06:39:59 PM
wow ...       ummm    that's a nice slingshot setup ...
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: dunl on July 09, 2009, 07:20:47 PM
Wow.   :(
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: WhiteOut on July 09, 2009, 08:25:22 PM
Fixed link in the OP
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: RckyMtnTJ on July 09, 2009, 08:27:32 PM
(http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/articleImages/468/1484.jpg)

(http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/articleImages/468/1487.jpg)

(http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/articleImages/468/1486.jpg)

(http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/articleImages/468/1485.jpg)






Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: Caddy on July 09, 2009, 08:45:25 PM
I am kinda amazed that they think this is a good idea
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: dunl on July 09, 2009, 10:29:38 PM
Not to mention the "belittling" of the guy without tow hooks. 

Sure, let's all belittle the people who are beginners.  That'll teach them to try to join in with the rest of us gods.  ::)
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: GiS on July 10, 2009, 07:59:07 AM
Carry an old hammer or hatchet handle...That's what Vinman taught me!!
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: rangerdanger on July 10, 2009, 08:10:43 AM
Maybe instead of belittling the guy with no hooks and being a jacka$$ they could bolt those hooks to his jeep and help a newbie out.
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: JackstandJohnny on July 10, 2009, 11:20:05 AM
ok maybe someone can explain to me, why is this bad?

i think its a great idea.  with the access to hooks on both ends like that you can easily find something on the undercarriage like a swaybar or tie rod that you can easily loop that tow hook around for easy access.   its pretty hard to loop a shackle around those things; you hve to like, unscrew it and stuff. this looks much quicker.

just jokes......... straps looped together = good times.  shackles + multiple straps = bad news bears.

also,

i'm pretty sure most newbies will learn rather quickly on this forum what 'proper tow points are' as they are usually posted at least once a week in some post about some run somewhere..........
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: cotaman on July 10, 2009, 10:54:06 PM
somebody was not thinking on that fire crew......   a loaded fire truck is way beyond working load limit of the average shackle.....  and the draw bar on a tractor can take a huge load... so the shackle becomes the weak point in the equation if they are using large strap with a breaking strength of say 20000 to 30000lbs .......    it is unfortunate that someone who risks their life to save others pays the ultimate price for someone's ignorance or stupidity....just my two cents.....

however... sometimes situation dictates creative thinking  ::) but has to be done safely and be approached cautiously  8) ......  ie the recovery of my jeep after floppying it on  :o  a post S&S run in 07.....

by the way if anyone has pics of that recovery they would be greatly appreciated  :)
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: Fredduck on July 11, 2009, 09:20:28 AM
I just noticed a link in that article for a potential new product invented by an offroader.
Good idea, hopefully some outfit will pick it up.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/04april/winchball.asp
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: cotaman on July 11, 2009, 10:01:42 AM
http://www.winchsaver.com/ (http://www.winchsaver.com/)  is what is on the market now.... just a large piece of poly urethane   8) ...... also keeps the cable tight on the drum with out having it hooked to a shackle  ;D
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: w squared on July 11, 2009, 10:46:22 PM
Yes, very unfortunate and un-necessary what happened to the firefighter.  Even if they had taken out the smaller shackle, they may have avoided the incident.

What now has me thinking is doing snatch-block doubled-line pulls. The components are rated for *single* line pull, but most of them aren't rated for *double* line pull.    IE: the components from the snatch block to whatever it's attached to are getting twice the line pull on them, so for my 9000Lb winch, they should be rated for 18000Lb pull, 9Ton, not 4.5Ton!    We actually had a smaller tree saver holding the snatch block for a redirect snap on a single line pull earlier this year, but luckily everything just dropped.

Seems like more material for offroad winching needs to be created over and above the "Warn" manual that seems to be the main thing out there aside from older military manuals.  I don't recall either of them talking extensively about this.



I keep a 1 inch shackle in the bottom of my recovery bag for just that reason. A 3/4" or 7/8" shackle will work just fine for a re-direct...but it's a different matter when you're using a snatch block attached to a single anchor point for mechanical advantage.
Title: Re: Warning: Don't do this
Post by: cotaman on July 12, 2009, 09:05:32 AM
hence also carrying the big 1" shackle  for the snatch block.... all more smaller items are going to fail before that does :P