Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: RACKMAN on July 19, 2009, 10:20:19 AM
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Hey, anyone know if there is a brand of unit bearings offered by the aftermarket and who/where, that are as good quality as the Mopar ones....or do I just have to suck it up and go to the stealership? :'(
RACKMAN
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Good question...
For as long as people keep telling me they last, I started looking at aftermarket as cheap as possible... since I figured like everything else, they are probably all made by one or two manufacturers anyways ... but I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Which "aftermarket"ones are you referring to?
RACKMAN
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I work at a parts store, and I can get the crappy "Fenco" ones for about $70. I'm probly just gonna do that for a while...
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auto vale offers lifetime warrenty on the ones they carry. this works out great if you change them regulary.
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TRW parts are a lifetime as are their tie rods and all steering components. Might be wise to pay a little more but only have to pay it one time
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I bought mine off of ebay, Quebec I think, and they have lasted longer than anything else I have bough. I think I paid about $70 for mine.
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Send SwampSinger on here a PM, he runs 37's and the ones he uses should last a while for the smaller size tires.
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auto vale offers lifetime warrenty on the ones they carry. this works out great if you change them regulary.
Not too sure about that... the Parts Masters has no warrenty really unless you wreck them w/i a Month or so.... If you get the BCA kind (the better ones that Auto Value has... not 100% sure of the name) they only has one year warrenty on them... If you run bigger tires you will go through the better ones w/i a year for sure... and the new ones have one year warranty also. I guess you canm call that "Lifetime warranty" ;)...
I get mine off a buddy at a discount... I'm not sure how much they are full pop. I think they are $225 full pop...but they are better then the rugged ridge, fags or Parts Master + they have one year warranty.
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I got mine from a guy called roadiron1 http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/roadiron1 I bought them in April 06' and they are my 4th set since new, including the stock ones. So far holding tight.
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Ya, I have no idea what you guys are talking about regarding "lifetime"warranty.....All the places I called yesterday....Autovalue, Napa, Stealership, only carry a ONE year warranty. What gives?????????? Anyone have experience with the SKS brand bearings from Napa($259.49 each).
RACKMAN
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Alot of parts at AutoValue have a lifetime warranty, but unfortunately they don't warranty it if you run larger tires..... and they know that I do.
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I run the skf bearings, canadian tire sells them, as do many others places, they last for a while. Seems to me if you run oversized tires and bath the bearings in mud then wash all the mud and grease out in the rivers and puddles, it probably doesn't matter. i always say next time I'm going to get the cheaper ones, but it is so handy when all I have to do is walk 10 ft and take them off the shelf. ( no, i don't get a discount, I still end up paying retail :( )
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I run the skf bearings, canadian tire sells them, as do many others places, they last for a while. Seems to me if you run oversized tires and bath the bearings in mud then wash all the mud and grease out in the rivers and puddles, it probably doesn't matter. i always say next time I'm going to get the cheaper ones, but it is so handy when all I have to do is walk 10 ft and take them off the shelf. ( no, i don't get a discount, I still end up paying retail :( )
When you say "last for awhile", how long do you mean and what size tires are you running? Thanks.
RACKMAN
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How are they gonna prove you put them on a Jeep with larger tires? They dont have any way to prove that they were used with non stock tires.
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I tried rebuilding (two days at it), I can't do it with hand tools.
I used a grinder to cut the race that is pressed to the shaft.
When I reassembled it wouldn't turn freely.
I have a feeling that NAPA gave me the wrong bearings or I am doing something wrong.
Lots of work involved with rebuilding I think my cost for bearings was $70.
May try again sometime, but not soon!
Greg
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Sorry, never got back to you... never saw your post.
I was talking about the unit bearing.
NPPA has bearings and races you can install to replace the bearings and races in the unit bearing.
I rebuilt a unit bearing about 4 times, each time having to cut the race.
My belief is I had the wrong info for NPPA about the axles, as each time I put the unit bearing together, it wouldn't turn.
My YJ has had a long history of rebuilds before I got it, so I feel I don't have the hub NPPA thinks I have.
But in the end run it is cheaper to buy the unit bearing complete.
The bearings that go into the unit bearing are common, as the part's person looked them up in the book and pulled them off the self.
So it might be possible, to buy cheaper bearing and races from another source and rebuild the unit bearing for cheap.
It is the bearing in the unit bearing that fail, so all you need to do is replace the bearing. (cheaply)
My framer friend runs a John Deere bailer that burns out one of the bearing regularly.
It is a $80 bearing from JD, JD has someone else build them the bailer to sell with their paint, they sell the same bearing for $60, but his sis in-law got the crossover number and got the bearing from an industrial part depot for $40, then for $20 from an offshore company.
So if you dig enough, you can get parts for the right price.
Greg
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buy the cheap ones with a one year warranty from Autovalue. keep reciept. that'll be the last set of bearings you ever have to buy... if you drive it/wheel it/ it has large tires, you'll wear out the unit bearing enough that you can replace em under warranty every year........
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The problem comes with having them wear out on the trail or road. When I was running 31s I was going thru the cheap Parts Source ones every year. I checked them often but still broke down on the road with them twice. It can be REALLY hard to tell they are starting to go until its too late. I learned after awhile that a really faint grinding when cornering at speeds above 60kn/h meant one was starting to go. Jacking it up and spinning the tire I didn't feel anything, removing the tire and turning by hand didn't reveal anything(due to drag from axle shafts), only completely removing it and turning it my hands could I feel a roughness.
A few years ago I put a premium one on from Canadian Tire on my sister's ZJ, was around $200 I think and its actually held up fairly well. After buying lots of parts from PArts Source(I used to live really close to one) I've come to realize that they sell junk. I get all my parts from either NAPA or the dealer now, and usually the premium ones. It is expensive usually but I just HATE replacing something that I worked on less than a year ago. The fact that NAPA actually has people who know what they are doing helps out a lot too. Having pimple faced teenagers tell me that they can't look up a u-joint by part number, only application doesn't really work for me. Especially when I have to wait for him to stop bragging about the muffler he just put on his Honda that looked too big for my Dodge Cummins truck.
At an average of $200 per unit bearing and at 2 a year in about 3 years you can pay for a hub conversion kit. That was my motivation for going to a D44, was tired of replacing unit bearings and could spend $1200 on a bearing conversion kit. Of course in the end the D44 probably cost me 3 times that. :D
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just go with the factory ones
they last years
i beat on my ruby for 2 years with 37 rubber and i never had to change them
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I run 35's and it gets used about 50/50 on and off road
I have chewed through a pile of the cheap "made in China" unit bearings from NAPA. My Friend got me 4 at staff discount pricing and I chewed through all of them in a couple of years.
Now I am running the SKS ones from NAPA. They have a red seal, the cheapies have a black seal. The new ones seem to hold up pretty well.
The other day I had one out and I thought about prying out the two rubber seals and repacking the unit bearing using one of those bearing repackers (of course the repacker would have to be stretched a little, it only fits about 2":of bearing).
I wonder what is the principle cause of failure. One or all of ther following?
1) grease working it's way out and being replaced by mud and dirt
2) increased offset and tire weight overloading bearing
3) Shock loading from wheeling, curbs etc
probably a combination of all three. Perhaps I will try repacking one and see how it lasts.
A VERY INTERESTING THING ABOUT CHEAP PARTS PRICING:
When my friend picked up those cheap wheel bearings for me we figured uot just how much of a rip they usually are. She got stuff very near cost, so you could see what the stores cost was by buying with the staff discount. The cheap ones were around $200 and the good ones around $250 (retail price.) With the staff discount the cheapies went for around $40 and the good ones for around $185...so in other words, the parts stores simply price the cheap chinese stuff to be a little cheaper than the regular stuff, regardless of how cheap it really is.
It is true that the factory (timken?) ones last a lot longe, in my experience.
Unlessyou are selling your Jeep I cannot reccomend the cheapies...I get around 3-6 months out of them.
I have never had a problem with them failing suddenly...They gave lots of hints first, and then became very slightly loose...I have never had any fail unexpectedly.
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or do the warn hub conversion then u dont have to use unit bearings anymore
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I just came across this thread. Now from what I understand the early year XJ did come with rebuildable unit bearings. It was some time in the late 80's or early 90's that they went to a non rebuildable type. As for the hub conversion kit I have run the mileMarker on my XJ with 35's and blew three hubs out and took out the spindle that came with it. The reason I choose Mile Marker is they don't show a tire size limit in any of there ad's but when I spoke with them about blowing all the stuff apart he asked what size tires I was running. It wasn't till then that he said they are not built for tires that size and ended up giving me my money back. (have three spare hubs for sale if anyone is looking for some) Next upgrade would need to be the hub conversion that changes the bolt pattern to a 5x5.5 or a HP44
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I was doing some searching on helping a buddy out with getting his reverse lights working on his Ram and came across this brief writeup about making hub bearings greasable. Not sure if this is feasible or not.
(http://www.mark74.com/Photos/IMG_9809-copy.jpg)
(http://www.mark74.com/IMG_9816small.jpg)
Its at the bottom of this page:
http://www.mark74.com/ram_modifications.htm (http://www.mark74.com/ram_modifications.htm)
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All XJs stock from the factory came with unit bearings, first XJ came out in '85, before that Cherokees were a completly different vehicle, considered a Full Size Jeep, designated SJ, same basic chassis and drive train as a Grand Wagoner or J series truck.
In '85 XJ line came out also called the Cherokee or for clarification the "downsized Cherokee". Pre '85 full size Cherokee(SJ) with a D44 front axle and serviceable bearings, after '85 downsized Cherokee(XJ) with a D30 front axle and unit bearings.
What was failing on the MM hubs? Bearings, hubs or spindles?
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I'm not really sure how much greasing would extend the life of the unit bearing. I personally think they just are over stressed with bigger tires. I try stay out of the mud and still had poor life span on my cheap bearings.
On a Ram with a heavy load I could see the grease overheating and breaking down and then being able to pump fresh grease in would help. Although I suppose this argument could work bigger tires as well. Bigger tires/more load/more heat/grease breaks down......
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With the MileMarker hubs I blew three hubs within 9 months. the final straw was when the spindle it self broke right where it flattened for the spindle bolts. The Mile Marker tech told me that a 35`tire was too big for the hub kit and they recommended only running a max of 32``. He also said that the only kit he was aware of that would handle 35`s was the warn 5x5.5 kit.