Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: Waytec on September 28, 2009, 09:07:17 PM
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I have hoping to get some feed back from the off road 101 from back at the beginning of the summer. I know I have left it for a long time to ask but I am now thinking about next year.
Some feed back I have already received is
-it was over some peoples heads and it was not challenging enough for others.
-I was way too many jeeps and not enough instructors.
-need to have more then one day so if someone wishes they can come back and practice more.
Form this feed back changes that have been discussed are having 3 days thought out the summer; every other month kind of deal, smaller classes and possibility of a 202.
How can we improve the Off Road 101 more and what do you want to see?
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change the location buddy. waiparous. you can run one to the falls, one to the lake.
two groups works. run one in may, one in august................. or something. but if you already think you have a problem with volunteers might be tough to field enough for two runs/groups................. then again, if the groups are smaller it could be feasible..........................
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Navigation.
Simple stuff on a map. Store, Campsite, gravel pits, some trail entrances with trail names.
If you ever run into an emergency out in the bush and tell someone you need help on the "101 Trail", they will not come :P
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I understand that some people offered to volunteer but were turned away because they weren't CJA members, you lost out on some capable help.
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Waiporous...only staging area there is the illegal gravel pit, although I hear one group is using that as their "teaching" area. ::)
As for club members....unless you're planning to spend a lot of time filling out applications and getting to know everyone, how else are you going to figure out who you have to teach? There has to be some standard, so you're not correcting things after they have been taught.
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I think Maclean was a good location for the 101.
It was nice having the few different areas around the gravel pit to try out some easy stuff. Might be nice to have some more difficult stuff to practice over and over (even though I imagine that would be hard to find out there)
I think that smaller groups for the trail run would have been nice too. But I did enjoy that trail.
I had been out in MacLean lots before so the terrain was not to shocking for me.
I think it was a great way for people to find out what their jeep is capable of. It helps a lot to have someone tell you they can do it in their jeep (then you have to do it )
The winching and tow strap recovery lessons were great. I can not beleive what some people will come up with to try and tow with, so I think bringing awareness to safety is a huge deal.
More volunteers will help (but thats why you are getting new members)
It might be nice to have a 101 in the early summer and a 201 in the fall??
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Wow that’s a lot of feed back in a hurry.
Tinkerer is right I feel we need to break it up some more and it has evolved enough to have a demand for a 202. And thank you for volunteering to teach and help develop the program.
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I think the 2 or 3 day idea is a great one, I'd be up for helping put again for sure. I honestly cant remember if we did it this time but a "trail etiquette" seminar would be a great thing to do. We can probably find a large space around the city to have to a week or so in advance. Basic trail repair might be a good thing to teach as well since damage does occur.
As for the trails and groups, we could split people up based on skill and experience, not just 1234. A lot of people on the 101 had gotten their feet wet so to speak but others had never touched dirt, breaking these people into separate groups would solve a lot of the issues we had this year.
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I think you did a great job Aaron. Maybe a 2-3 day CJA style "Jeep Jamboree" is in order. I would volunteer again for sure.
I also agree with Frenchy on his points. I'm sick of hearing about the "101" trail name being thrown around. We need to say that the "101" consists of trails that have actual names. I've had people ask me all summer where the trail is, because they can't find it on any map.
Maybe a camp out and a "meet and greet"? That way we can get to know the participants better. Offer more technical advice, look over each others rigs and offer answers to people?
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it was great and i cant wait to sign the wife up for it next spring. i also agree with having different levels for the course. we could also run a winter 101.
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if you plan to do more then 1 in a year then maybe a mandatory friday evening meet with the participants for a basic run down of what will be going on. answer the newbie questions friday night and have more time saturday to run the show. and maybe an optional 202 on sunday. some people may prefer to fill a whole weekend with the jeep stuff. i found mclean perfect. it has a good mix of trails to try and its close to the city and easy to find.
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And free camping, if the Sunday run is a go.
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I think that Hps4evr and Tubby89 have some VERY good ideas there. I wasn't able to attend this year's 101 (stupid job...interferes with my wheeling WAY too much), but from what I saw participating in last year's run, they're right on the money. I know that if I had been offered the chance to keep participating on Sunday when took the 101, I would have been all over it.
The other suggestion that I would make:
#1. Smaller groups for the trail runs after the gravel pit, and different routes for the groups.
#2. If possible, assign volunteers to specific tasks early, and use some of your most experienced volunteers in a "swing" capacity...they can cover for those folks that have last-minute breakdowns, or help out in places where things are slowing down. IIRC, you spent a bit of time in the military, right? Maybe think of using them as a "Swing NCO" for the course.
#3. Part of the "meet and greet" can be questionnaire that asks folks about their wheeling experience. If you break them into groups, you can choose trails well suited to expereince levels.
The Sunday time could include a quick tutorial on winching/recovery as well.
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Aaron, i was going to mention that you should get some fellow club memebers early on to agree to help out. do a couple meetings and get some form of basic instructions to give. that way there isnt 10 different versions of how to drive up a hill. could be confusing for some newer folks. maybe put together a small handout for each paying participant that has a run down and explanation of what will be goin down at the 101.
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Thank You for the input keep things coming as they come to mind.
I will be working with a couple other members on overhauling the 101 for next year. There will be several dates I am thinking three to four over the summer pending on interest. I really want to try to stay away from a class room portion. this is an outdoor sport let's stay there. A basic run down of trade lightly and trail edict i.e. pack it in pack it out. will be incorporated.
I like the idea of a booklet with a little more than basic information, but also good internet sights so people can go get detailed information themselves.
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as soon as i become a full member count me in to help out! ;)
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These are all fantastic ideas and I really agree with the different levels (101, 202 etc).
I had been a passenger but had never driven off-road myself before the 101 and personally found it fairly easy. I would be very interested in a 202 course or a winter 101 course. :) I also think the idea of splitting the groups into smaller, skill-based groups is an excellent one.
I found the winch and towstrap (etc) sessions very useful, thanks! It was a great day and I learned a lot!
K.
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I am finding it interesting that people found the day too easy, gust right and way over their heads. I am hoping by having smaller groups we will be able to help the less experienced and challenge the more. And if all else fails we will send them with Billy.
I am clarify the 3 to 4 separate days the idea is to have much smaller groups max of 10 to 20 rigs so this way 2 to 3 people can run the day, it won't be the grand event anymore.
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I think that you could even have the "Grand Event" as long as the second half of the day (trail run) was run with smaller groups. We could put people into preliminary groups based on their experience levels, watch them go through the "gauntlet" in the gravel pit, and then adjust the groups if needed.
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I have been interested in joining this group for awhile now, after reading these posts I think the CJA upholds the off-roading ideals that I believe in. I really like the idea of a questionnaire, this would be a great tool for me as well as for the CJA, as I am sort of new to the off-roading world, I am not sure were my skill level is and would be very interested to know what skills I need to work on. Perhaps a questionnaire prior to being made a member, or before an event would be a good idea. that way 101 type events could be more easily planned in advance when the organizers know what skill level the participating members are at. That would make it easier to match instructors with students.
As for the classroom idea, I like the idea of it, but i am more of a hands on learner. so maybe an outdoor class (not a trail run) could teach beginners the features of there jeeps and how they are properly used , or how to make repairs in the field (and make it home safely).
I was able to make it to a couple of meetings, but didn't get a chance to really meet the members. A meet and greet were people can meet the members and ask questions about the CJA face to face, could really be beneficial in recruiting new members.
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I have been interested in joining this group for awhile now, after reading these posts I think the CJA upholds the off-roading ideals that I believe in. I really like the idea of a questionnaire, this would be a great tool for me as well as for the CJA, as I am sort of new to the off-roading world, I am not sure were my skill level is and would be very interested to know what skills I need to work on. Perhaps a questionnaire prior to being made a member, or before an event would be a good idea. that way 101 type events could be more easily planned in advance when the organizers know what skill level the participating members are at. That would make it easier to match instructors with students.
As for the classroom idea, I like the idea of it, but i am more of a hands on learner. so maybe an outdoor class (not a trail run) could teach beginners the features of there jeeps and how they are properly used , or how to make repairs in the field (and make it home safely).
I was able to make it to a couple of meetings, but didn't get a chance to really meet the members. A meet and greet were people can meet the members and ask questions about the CJA face to face, could really be beneficial in recruiting new members.
Thanks. ;D
I hope you make it out to more meetings. It looks like the club will be part of a trail project on October 24-25. Working on a trail project is a great way to get to know the group here.
Blair
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I think that in order to graduate to the "202" you must be able to run the gravelpit course in 1:45 or less.... teeeheeeeheeee
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I think that in order to graduate to the "202" you must be able to run the gravelpit course in 1:45 or les.... teeeheeeeheeee
No problem!! ;D
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I didn't know feedback was even in order?. When I left the 101 I had no questions and no concern's. Except being bummed out that it was over :( I think as a 101 , that in my mind being a Absolute beginner class, that it was perfect for what it was. No one likes standing around while your shown how to hook up a winch or properly tow someone, all we want to do is drive. BUT those things are necessary and I was happy that they were not rushed.
So all in all i give ya a 9/10 Would have been nice if it would have been longer, but that's just cause i don't like to stop .
Oh and Again thanks to Arron and all the other guys for helping out, I had a blast!!
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I've been following this post from the start and i liked the idea of a winter 101 or 202 is there any plans for this event?
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Been a few months since anyone mentioned anything, but here are my 2 cents.
The smaller groups is a great idea. Even if we all have to do the same trail, just have them start 30 minutes apart
Have 2 or 3 trails for the 101. The normal 101 trail that was used for the last 2 years, can be considered Intermediate to some. So maybe make the Top of the World run a Beginner trail, as even a stock Jeep with bold tires could make that trail with ease. As for a Advanced Trail, well, my Jeep is still stock, so you can pick it.
Provide a Map, custom made by the Jeep Club, that shows where these trails are. And maybe even color code them like ski hill runs, Green for easy, Blue for intermediate, and Black for advanced. Must people would understand those colors as difficulty levels. And if they don't, they'll learn.
And finally, make sure to mark the trails with the correct colors at the beginning of each trail you pick, so that no one accidentally goes into a trail that they don't feel comfortable in.
Those are my 2 cents, other then that, I think you've done a great job so far Waytec. Can wait for next years 101.
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Yes the idea of signage like a ski hill is a good one. GPS coordinates on the sign and then on a map would be great.
It's no small job to do it but I'll volunteer to help.
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Just found this thread. I would love to get out for this "101" and learn some new stuff. I could also possibly help out with this signage idea aswell if needed. I work for a sign shop and would love to help out if possible. ;)
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We're starting to get beyond the scope of that "101 feedback" thread here. Any signage would have to be approved by ASRD...and having that done would be a multi-year project, probably taking a LARGE block of time from one or two people. Just so that I'm clear, all of the time would be invested just to get the approval to install the signs. We would still have to fund them, produce them, and install them...and I'd wager that we'd be on the hook for maintaining them and removing them if SRD decided that was appropriate.
I think that it's a laudable idea, but we all need to understand what would be involved.
As far as a custom map goes, that would be helpful...but there are also some very good maps available right at the McLean store for $12 that have the trails named. Asking on here if a particular trail is suitable for your rig and experience level will generally be better than a "colour" rating, as the difficulty of a trail is VERY dependent on conditions. Take Fisher East as an example....when it's frozen over, it's easily do-able for a stocker. When it's wet, it's a challenge on anything less than 37's.
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I was just thinking of signs just for the event. Even card board spray paint green, blue or black. That we can just take with us and recycle after the event.
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Here is what is going on with the 101 as of right now.
There is a group of us that are working together making changes and creating a curriculum for the course.
We are now going to be approaching the 101 as a course instead of an event. The classes are going to be restricted in size and designed that 3 to 4 people can run the class. We are also developing a 102 of which is going to be more advanced and possibly a 2 day course.
The set up is someone that has never Off-Roaded before is going to take the 101, wheel for the year and then take the 102.
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Has anyone ever considered charging for private lessons? Maybe one instructor and only two or three students. I used to ride the trails in the Burnt timber / Fallen Timber area 20 years ago and everything I learned was through trial and error (more error). I just got into the whole "Jeep Thing" and would like to get some lessons from someone who has been doing this for a while. And it would be easier in a smaller setting I think. I am looking forward to joining the CJA and getting out on the trails.
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Has anyone ever considered charging for private lessons? Maybe one instructor and only two or three students. I used to ride the trails in the Burnt timber / Fallen Timber area 20 years ago and everything I learned was through trial and error (more error). I just got into the whole "Jeep Thing" and would like to get some lessons from someone who has been doing this for a while. And it would be easier in a smaller setting I think. I am looking forward to joining the CJA and getting out on the trails.
It is a good idea for a business but we are a Club that offer our time for a week-end to share our knowledge. Private lessons will not happen .. sorry bud.
Your best bet is to join us for some runs and ask questions. You will learn lots that way.
Hopefully I can see you on the trail sometime.
Cheers,
Dom
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I agree. I think if you asked, there would be people in the hobby who would be more than happy to take you out and give you some pointers, free of charge. I think most try to keep things bottled up a bit in order not to step on anyone's toes, so when asked to freely give out knowledge, it's usually seen as an enjoyable oppotunity.
Unless you're one of those nit-wits who won't listen to anything - then it's annoying. ;D
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What I would suggest is come out and take the 101, we will be covering the general skills needed to off road and then come out on open runs and watch how others do things and try different ideas. This is a sport of learn by mistakes. getting stuck and hung up is part of the sport and as a new person learning it is expected. Heck I have been at this for some time and when I go out with people they take bets on how long it takes me to get stuck. (so far it is 2 times in 10 feet of nothing). Have a sense of humour about it, lesson and learn.
If you are still unsure about something during the run, ask questions. One thing is if you ask 10 people on how to approach an obstacle, it is very easy to get 10 different answers. try them all and pick the one up like.
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Aaron, Have you picked a date yet? I'd like to book off the weekend at work so they don't go ahead and ship me out of town.
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We are meeting at the end of the month to start our planning for the event. We should have the dates then.
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Thanks guys. I do plan on joining the CJA and will be there for the 101, 201.... I was just thinking sometimes additional help, without slowing a big group down, is a good thing. Especially for a newbie like me.
Looking forward to meeting everyone and hitting the trails ;D
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just come on an open run most people in the club have no problem getting out of their jeep and guiding or tutoring you around/through and obstical. dont worry about slowing the group down, our runs are required to have a member as the last jeep in the line with a cb so that we make sure that you get through. and definately take the 101 i did it last year and had a blast.
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When can we start looking for the sign up post for the 101? I dont want to miss it again.
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the dates and info will be out the first part of February. We are meeting at the end of the month to decide on all the details.
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We are meeting at the end of the month to start our planning for the event. We should have the dates then.
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oh but yes you are a robot IMMORTAL
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Woohoo can't wait, I really enjoyed last years and I think everyone had a good time. If you haven't been out in a group this is the best low stress way to get out there an meet good people who are willing to help you anytime, whether it be for a tow, spill pack, spare alternator or just to laugh at you stuck in mud, they're there for you . So make sure you sign up :)