Calgary Jeep Association

4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Axemanjay on October 31, 2009, 12:52:08 PM

Title: No Start on YJ....SOLVED!!!
Post by: Axemanjay on October 31, 2009, 12:52:08 PM
Okay, here goes....

Just did a rebuild on my 92 YJ 2.5...

Everything went back together relativity smooth.

Lots of fuel
Lots of compression
Lots of spark
Timing is Dead on, both crank/cam and distributor

NO START, Just cranks...

I am stumped...

Thoughts?
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: JackstandJohnny on October 31, 2009, 01:01:21 PM
relays?
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on October 31, 2009, 02:24:28 PM
What ones, and where?

Thanks Johnny
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: JackstandJohnny on October 31, 2009, 02:29:18 PM
well auto shutdown is the first that comes to mind, as well as fuel pump. but you said you have fuel. so start with the auto shutdown. should be labelled in the fusebox.
does it stutter at all or just straight crank?  CPS and pickup coil (camshaft sensor) are good right? timing was good? (so sparkplugs are where they should be )
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on October 31, 2009, 02:35:34 PM
No stutter at all.

I assume the CPS and coil are good.

Jamey was over this morning, and timing is perfect, compression is perfect, spark is awesome.

I'll check the auto shut down
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on October 31, 2009, 09:16:37 PM
Hey Johnny..

Would the relays or sensors give me any codes?
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: esi on October 31, 2009, 11:37:58 PM
Could it be one revolution out on timing? Being a four stroke engine you get two TDC per plug fire.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: The Machinist on November 01, 2009, 12:50:58 AM
Could it be one revolution out on timing? Being a four stroke engine you get two TDC per plug fire.


Timings good, TDC on the compression stroke. 
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 01, 2009, 02:02:43 PM
All relays metered continuity/no continuity is right on...

Anyone willing to come over to my place and exchange fresh eyes/ideas for any sort of libation(booze)????

After this many hours, I'm starting to go around in circles.

Jay
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: BBD on November 01, 2009, 08:55:37 PM
have you tested the starter? did you rebuild the bottom end? if so, are your crankshaft bearing clearances correct or to tight? are battery connections good? (at battery and starter) have you tested the battery?(12.6volts)
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: JackstandJohnny on November 02, 2009, 09:23:43 AM
something is telling his computer NOT to fire.......  the internals of the engine/timing etc. sound just fine. 

where are you jay? i might come take a look if you're close.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 02, 2009, 10:23:38 AM
Yup..she's firing.

Johnny, I'm in Copperfield
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: JackstandJohnny on November 02, 2009, 10:27:22 AM
different terminology then. i've always assumed 'firing' to mean running' as in 'fire it up'  irregardless it still sounds like somethings sending a signal to your computer to stop it from running. did you pull codes? get anything?


copperfields not far. maybe i'll try and swing by one of these nights, get a second set of eyes on it :)
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 02, 2009, 10:42:19 AM
The only codes (from the CEL) were 12 (normal, battery disco'd) and 33 (normal, no AC)

Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: frenchy on November 02, 2009, 11:01:03 AM
Try leaving the key on for a few minutes, then try crank it over?
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 02, 2009, 11:39:23 AM
Tried that...

I think I need to go back to square one, and re-do the timing, and distributor setup, I'm 99% sure it's perfect, but, who knows.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Evil-Jeep on November 02, 2009, 01:56:24 PM
how did you check for fuel..... at the rail? have you tested the injectors for spray. It could be a bad fuse/relay that is keeping fuel from actually entering the system.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 02, 2009, 02:21:10 PM
The plugs are getting good and wet.  Lot's of spurt out of the rail as well.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: wrenchead99 on November 02, 2009, 06:21:15 PM
are you checking spark at the spark plugs and not just the coil??  could be a bad cap and/or rotor, or possibly even defective or improperly gapped spark plugs
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 02, 2009, 07:57:23 PM
Plugs were checked between the wire and plug, re-gapped to spec.

Question...

Do the injectors have to be in the ports to spray? I took the fuel rail out with the injectors still attached to see if the were spraying and nothing????

I metered the injectors and they were all 14 ohms
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Gearhead on November 03, 2009, 07:44:36 AM
I believe the ground is through the threads, you could ground 'em with a wire/booster cable, but don't spark!



threads ?   negatory on that  ,   the ecm  provides a ground .
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 03, 2009, 08:40:38 AM
The plugs get wet when trying to start, but no spray when i removed them from the port????

Anyone know where I can get the injectors tested?

Is there a tes procedure I can do on the ECM?
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Evil-Jeep on November 03, 2009, 09:29:56 AM
It may not be a problem if you don't have any spray with the rail removed....... could be a safety feature to prevent fires. Testing wise look for someone with a 2.5L YJ that you can swap injectors to/from test yours in theirs and the same on your block.

Is the Gas fresh or has it sat in the tank for a long time?
Have you tried starting it with the throttle body in a full open position?
As I am unfamiliar with the 2.5L does it have an electronic Choke?

If you are receiving fuel in the block and spark at the plugs, and not even getting a sputter, timing should be the issue, are you sure plugs and injectors are connected properly. A simple test should be to shoot a couple shots of cold start directly into the throttle body while having someone else turn the motor over. (go easy and watch for backfires) you should at least get a sputter.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 03, 2009, 09:38:28 AM
The gas has been in the tank for about 3-4 weeks, 3/4 tank
Tried throttle body wide open, and get a few sputters, but nothing like it wants to start.
It has an electronic choke.

I went back to square one with the timing and removed everything, gears, chain, and distributor.

Reset the crank to TDC of the compression stroke, aligned the cam timing mark, and set the distributor to point at the #1 plug wire (facing front of engine(paralell)).
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: esi on November 03, 2009, 11:17:54 AM
Long shot but, check your negative wires. battery, ECU, engine to frame. injectors may be opening and allowing some flow but nit enough atomization to get a good fire to start. Whats the exhaust look like? Any smoke?  3-4 week old gas shouldn't matter
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 04, 2009, 08:10:39 AM
All wires seem to be okay.

Installed new fuel filter last night, and nothing new to report.

Gonna try the Crank Sensor next, and maybe injectors.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 04, 2009, 07:05:44 PM
Replaced the CPS tonight and she almost starts, almost....

Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Gearhead on November 04, 2009, 07:22:12 PM
sounds like you are close to a solution .

when spark plugs become soaked in fuel or gas fouled multiple times , they  are best tossed in the garbage and replaced.

now that you have it nearly starting , try a dry set of plugs.
Title: Re: No Start on YJ
Post by: Axemanjay on November 04, 2009, 08:46:33 PM
I've been switching back and forth between 2 sets, but, maybe they are both fouled at this point. Will pick up more plugs tomorrow.

I guess it'll be beers on me soon! ;) :) ;D
Title: Re: No Start on YJ...SOLVED...YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Axemanjay on November 04, 2009, 09:21:52 PM
So the original issue was the Crank Sensor....

In my frustration I was setting the firing order 1432 instead of 1342...

Beers on me next CJA function!!!

Thanks to everybody who tried to help me out. You guys rock, now I have no excuses in not becoming a paying member of the CJA

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D