Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: FirstTimer on January 19, 2011, 03:38:11 PM
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I know this isn't a mechanically technical question, but its still technical as far as the technique you use when wheelin!
So my question is to you, when do you use force (pedal to the metal) and when do you you finesse (crawling approach)?
I've been out to the trail once or twice and there were a couple of situations where I would have liked to know some basic rules of thumb for what type of approach I should have used. I'm hoping that acquiring further knowledge of this topic will help prevent breakages in the near future as I look to increase my time on the trail.
I assume there will be much debate regarding this topic so have at er!
Ding Ding Round 1!
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Its a simple matter of the right technique for the right situation.
Most people lean more one then the other, but at the end of the day, its experience that makes the difference over sheer technique and equipment.
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That's an easy one, force for everything! Hot dawgger!
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I think there is a fine line between the two but it all really is determined by the situation.
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Its a simple matter of the right technique for the right situation.
Most people lean more one then the other, but at the end of the day, its experience that makes the difference over sheer technique and equipment.
Quoted for truth. Finesse is a great thing to watch, but the best driver is the one that can blend finesse and line selection with the understanding of just how much speed to carry and how hard to "bump" at the tight spot.
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Hmmmmm
My thoughts are this...........I think finesse is the key. Right line, understanding where all of your vehicle is, what the terrain is and how it will react.
However, when stuff goes wrong I want to make sure I can force it.
On the finesse side of things its more about knowing what will happen in a given situation. Take my little rub on Cabin Creek a few weeks ago. I watched the rig in front of me maneuver around the hump.........I knew that I didn't have the same clearance so I couldn't maneuver it in the same manner. In the end what I was hoping to do didn't quite work out, funnily enough what I thought would happen did and I scrubbed my door and fender, :o what I hoped would happen didn't bear out. In that case a little more experience would have told me that I should have went with my thought and understanding of how my rig would react rather than trust my ego to drive :)
Same run we had a rather large uphill to do. I did not know what to expect, the hill was south facing and there was a risk of ice under the snow. But in this case rather than working the finesse angle I chose forth. 4 Low, Locked up, Disconnected, 5th gear and hold on. In the end more force than was needed but my lack of experience in winter wheeling didn't allow for the "finesse" approach :-[ so it was nice to know that the force was there to use.
So as your experience grows (both with wheeling and specifically your own rig) I think finesse can be used more and more......................but sometimes force can just be plain fun BAJA!!!
Just my relative newb thoughts on it all.
BTW did I mention that I LOVE WHEELING ;D
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That's an easy one, force for everything! Hot dawgger!
Use this approach and you'll be fixing things you've broken on your Jeep a LOT !
There are some How To video's and books in regards to offroading techniques available out there that you can gleen some information from, but it's best to get out and get some seat time.
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Just enough force so you do not break anything to early. :o
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Depends on your rig.
locked front and rear will be different than open/open.
Deep mudholes vs erosion hill climbs.
Experience is the key.
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If you got stuck, you didn't use enough force, if you broke you used too much. :D
Type of rig demands a differing approach. Full size rigs have to rely on force whereas smaller/lighter rigs can finesse their way through.
Ususally I approach an obstacle carefully(slowly) and feel it out and then take a second run at it with more force as needed. However this has lead to me being stuck on occasion from not having momentum. Icy hills are one time when I'll lay on more force than I think I need to. Spinning out on an icy hill and having to back up is scary dangerous. Way too much speed though can kick you sideways and and be just as bad.
Knowing your rig in relation to the one in front of you can give a good idea of what to do. When first going out I tried to follow people with similar rigs to mine, especially in the lift/wheelbase dept.
I will say that having the extra power of a V8 on tap is sure nice for those times when you get surprised and need to pour it on at a moments notice!
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ive always liked the feeling of using as little throttle as possible to get over or through and obstacle. bump the throttle just enough to get up and over. thats why low gears and bottom end torque is nice. i like this quote...
"as slow as possible, as fast as necessary"
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I will say that having the extra power of a V8 on tap is sure nice for those times when you get surprised and need to pour it on at a moments notice!
You ZJ guys. Always rubbing it in. >:(
;D
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Thanks for the great discussion. I'm pretty green at the whole offroad driving scene and I love reading what those with years of experience can impart. I've managed to pick up some great knowledge just by following the guy in front and watching what does or doesn't work for him. Of course it's tough when I'm driving a stock 2011 JKU and the guy in front of me is driving a heavily modified rig on 37" tires....
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I first compare my JKU in size to the guy with 37's and then look how deep he ends up in the mud, then panic... :o
I try and watch everyone in front of me to see what lines are being taken. Everyone is slightly different and rely on spotter experience to force it or not. Then sometimes you just break something on the same line as everyone else.
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As said experience is key. Fall back in the pack and keep your eyes open, put someone with experience in front of you and a simular rig as you have. watch and learn and test youself.
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As said experience is key. Fall back in the pack and keep your eyes open, put someone with experience in front of you and a simular rig as you have. watch and learn and test youself.
Or learn like most everyone else does though out life....The hard way. It's funny how much lighter you hit the skinny pedal after you've destroyed your rig or two.
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The majority of my wheeling has been out in the Mojave and Death Valley... out there you do not want to force it and break it..!!! but force through the soft sand, crawl through the ruts, rocks and hills... I think it all becomes a personal choice and what kind of rig you run..... but hey, live and learn... if you break it, don't do the same thing again... or rebuild it stronger so you can do it again and not break it this time...!!! 8)
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No mention of the Jeep 101 course yet.....
Look for when the next Jeep 101 is held this year, and make sure you go........ there is much you can learn by watching and much to learn by doing.
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I was at the january meeting and heard of that. I look forward to going and testing my ride and my knowledge, while improving my skills
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I have a saying, "If you didn't get stuck you didn't wheel hard enough. If you broke you wheeled too hard......" :D
Its right up there with: "Having a winch just means you can get stuck worse"
Don't even get me started on the economics of the "anyways" and the "might as wells"!
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In my past experience of wheeling years back, I can now look back and see where I would have done things different. I believe picking the right line for your rigs capability is key. Once you have picked your line, using the proper amount of speed and throttle to make your way through. Sometimes it does mean that you put your foot to the floor. Do not let your ego get the better of you, this can cost a lot of $$$$.
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Wheelin should not be considered primarily skill or force, rather primarily good Judgement. How do you make a good judgment? from experience and knowledge (as previously mentioned). Really,The only skill involved is learning to drive stick if you have a manual. And if force is your primary philosphy behind wheelin, then really wheelin could be complimented by anything violent, for example you could combine your love of arson and wheelin to really maximize your enjoyment out in the bush
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Wheelin should not be considered primarily skill or force, rather primarily good Judgement. How do you make a good judgment? from experience and knowledge (as previously mentioned). Really,The only skill involved is learning to drive stick if you have a manual. And if force is your primary philosphy behind wheelin, then really wheelin could be complimented by anything violent, for example you could combine your love of arson and wheelin to really maximize your enjoyment out in the bush
Not to be a jerk but I am going to have to disagree with that statement.
The only skill involved is manning the stick?
What do you do when you are rolling down an icy hill backwards?
What about rolling down forwards? Brakes? No Brakes? Feather the Brakes?
What about coming into a corner? Brake? Clutch? Throttle? No Throttle?
Going up the hill, 4Lo in 4th or 5th or 4 Hi in 1st or 2nd?
Drop off or climbing a ledge.........straight on approach or angled?
Oh and too be clear............I don't know the answers to all of the above in every circumstance but I am learning :o Sometimes the hard way :-[
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And now we are back to experience and knowledge.... which should get you into the realm of good judgement.
This is just going to go around and around.... isn't it? >:(
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This is just going to around and around.... isn't it? >:(
No No No.............Quick someone get the bacon :)
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And if force is your primary philosphy behind wheelin, then really wheelin could be complimented by anything violent, for example you could combine your love of arson and wheelin to really maximize your enjoyment out in the bush
WTF???
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And now we are back to experience and knowledge.... which should get you into the realm of good judgement.
This is just going to go around and around.... isn't it? >:(
Not to be a jerk but I am going to have to disagree with that statement.
The only skill involved is manning the stick?
What do you do when you are rolling down an icy hill backwards?
What about rolling down forwards? Brakes? No Brakes? Feather the Brakes?
What about coming into a corner? Brake? Clutch? Throttle? No Throttle?
Going up the hill, 4Lo in 4th or 5th or 4 Hi in 1st or 2nd?
Drop off or climbing a ledge.........straight on approach or angled?
Oh and too be clear............I don't know the answers to all of the above in every circumstance but I am learning :o Sometimes the hard way :-[
You are absolutely right, however my oversimplification of the skill involved was to emphasize the point that some people are overstressing skills and not basing enough value in experience. For example knowing which gear to shift into isn't a skill...it best comes from experience and knowledge. Straight approach or angled? again experience will teach you all these things and more! Rolling down a icey hill? sure you may know what to do (knowledge), but experience certainly is when you really learn. Combining the two gives you guess what? good judgment. Maybe adding a diiferent perspective to existing ideas is useful? just my 2 cents.
WTF..???. Essentially I'm using whats known as a metaphor (google is your friend here ;)). I'm comparing sensless destruction (arson) to just hitting every obstacle with a wide open throttle... its pointless and your just going to wreck things
To me, this thread has been beatin over enough, just go out and wheel the heep tons it will answer all your questions