Calgary Jeep Association

4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 02:19:27 PM

Title: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
I have a HP30 and Ford 8.8 I'd like to go through before I slide them under my jeep does anyone know enough about axles that they could drink beer and enjoy free food while telling me I'm doing it wrong? I'm not looking for someone to do it for me, I'm fairly confident I can do most of it myself, but it would be nice to have someone smack me upside the head and tell me I have it in backwards BEFORE I put it all together  ;D
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: hps4evr on January 27, 2011, 06:13:13 PM
what are your plans for these axle assemblies?
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 06:26:08 PM
The HP30 is already built with some aftermarket stuff but there are some small shavings in the oil so it's time for a R&P change, the 8.8 needs a new crush sleeve (and most likely pinion bearing) and will probably get a a new R&P to be safe as there would have been some uneven wear, there's already an ARB in both.

I'm going to buy a master rebuild kit so anything else that doesn't look right can be replaced (and if not just keep it for spares) but I don't really know what to be looking for.

So if all else is good, simply swapping ring and pinions and properly crushing the sleeve in the 8.8 this time. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, just know squat about axles (although I guess it's more differentials for what I'm doing) outside of the theory.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: cLAY on January 27, 2011, 06:31:40 PM
Sorry but setting up gears isn't something someone can talk you thru while drinking beers. Its almost more of an art than a procedure.

Have you got all the specialty tools for it?
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: FiEND on January 27, 2011, 06:35:53 PM
read this then come back.  you're asking someone to sit and eat and drink and watch for something that could take 8hrs to a week to do. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PDFs/Yukon%20Gear%20Ring%20and%20Pinion%20installation%20instructions.pdf)

Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 06:51:59 PM
I'm making a list of tools to pick up, so at the moment no but hopefully by the time I have all the parts the tools will be here too.

Both of these are sitting on the floor so they can be brought to you if that's more appealing. If it's that complicated or time consuming I'm not against paying someone to do it but I'm leaning away from that because I'm not working ATM (but I do have more than enough budgeted for my jeep fund if it comes down to it) and I'd like to be able to learn how to do it myself, something you lose out on if you go with a shop.

FiEND I know it's a fairly big job but with the axles on the floor it doesn't have to be done all at once. I have done a bunch of reading already so I'm not completely in the dark about the procedure, but it never hurts to have a mentor the first time you try stuff.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: FiEND on January 27, 2011, 07:06:20 PM
not so much big, more like painstaking.  setup kits always seem to be missing the parts you need most.  i don't mind doing them and probably have 10 diffs done/helped so far.  but that said, the learning curve is probably the highest of anything i have ever learned to do.

having the diffs out is a bonus that's for sure.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 07:17:18 PM
setup kits always seem to be missing the parts you need most. 

That's my biggest fear right there, which is compounded by not knowing what I'm doing. I did my long arm kit and slip yoke eliminator myself, and fully intend on doing the gears myself the first time if I can't find someone to help. I figure if I can't get it right then I can always take it to a shop (I hear they loveeeeee fixing stuff after you butcher it trying to DIY haha).

I'm not in a huge rush to get it done, the axles are out so it means they can be taken somewhere if need be, and there's no rush to get it put together right away so it can be picked at if need be.

Like I said I'm not looking to freeload and be "hey come rebuild my diff for me", I do plan on trying to learn how to do it myself, but if someone doesn't mind helping out even with looking over the tools and parts to take out some of the learning curve it would be awesome.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: fug on January 27, 2011, 07:41:30 PM
I hate trying to talk people out of doing stuff... but truly doing diffs is a bit of an art and its painstaking.  Also... having the right tools is a must... and some of those tools are brutally expensive.  The dial torque wrench is going to run you about $3-400..  Having a clam shell puller to pull the pinion bearing off so you can reshim it time and time again  is a good thing.  A 12 Ton press to put the pinion bearing back on time and time again... a dial indicator to measure back lash... and good torque wrench to set bearing caps. 

Also if you screw up a gear install.. there's no fixing it... it announces you messed up by spitting some teeth and you're back to buying a complete new gear set and setup kit.   If you get off lucky and it just howls... well that's how its worn in and there's no fixing that either.

That being said... You CAN do it yourself... but like Fiend said... count on it taking a week and be thrilled if you get a good pattern and backlash right out of the gate and get it done in 8 hours.  My recommendation is to pay someone like Bnine to set them up for you... He has all the tools needed, will charge you a fair price and make sure you know how to do it yourself when all is said done. 
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: SilverTJ on January 27, 2011, 09:25:52 PM
Second the Bnine recommendation.
I "helped" him do mine. There is a lot to this that only experience can teach, you'll never get it from a book.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on January 27, 2011, 11:36:27 PM
All the really fancy stuff I could probably worm out of our shop

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1393.snc4/164543_121936084546309_118477678225483_150504_2478745_n.jpg)

But then I'd have to go to work and they'd probably find something for me to do :(  (I'm hiding out so I can continue being unemployed and working on my jeep).

Maybe I'll talk to Bnine, if he lets me see what he's doing I'd be down with going that route.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: hps4evr on January 28, 2011, 10:48:03 AM
All the really fancy stuff I could probably worm out of our shop

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1393.snc4/164543_121936084546309_118477678225483_150504_2478745_n.jpg)

But then I'd have to go to work and they'd probably find something for me to do :(  (I'm hiding out so I can continue being unemployed and working on my jeep).

Maybe I'll talk to Bnine, if he lets me see what he's doing I'd be down with going that route.

thats a big shop, but i doubt any catarpillars use a ford 8.8 or d30. ive done gears in an 8.8 and i recall them to be a little tricky. they dont seem to play by the same rules as the dana's. you might want to find a ford forum and ask about setting the 8.8 up from someone there. the d30 isnt very difficult, but life is much easier with the proper tools. and, setting up the pinion pre-load isnt always as easy when the housing is out of the vehicle. if you can hold it down when you're using the 6 foot snipe then you should be fine.
if i recall correctly Bnine has done at least a few of both of these differentials. maybe even Jay at Chanda as well.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: yyc_tbird_sc on January 28, 2011, 11:22:31 AM
I find the 8.8 a whole lot easier than a D44. The carrier shims on an 8.8 are outboard of the bearings so there's no need to have to pull the bearings on and off all the time. I've done a couple 8.8's now and they've turned out pretty good, but I'm no where near the point of doing it for others. Right now if my stuff breaks, it's only me that feels bad.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Rubi03 jef on January 28, 2011, 12:02:50 PM
Bnine is the best to talk to about gears

i went over to his place took some notes and listened to every word he said

and i was able to install my own gears perfect wear pattern perfect backlash  10 months later they have not moved and everything is still very good

but it does take time . my rear diff toook me near 10 hours lots of trial and error .. and thinking about how slimming one side will effect slims on the other as well as depth and black lash
so theres alot to it
front diff took me 3 hours because i had her figured

read up about it
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Spinalguy on January 28, 2011, 02:27:58 PM
bnine did my gears on my rubi (5.13's) 8)
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Rubi03 jef on January 28, 2011, 02:54:40 PM
bnine did my gears on my rubi (5.13's) 8)



Love the 5.13' s.    That's what I got
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Bnine on February 01, 2011, 08:30:31 AM
I find the 8.8 a whole lot easier than a D44. The carrier shims on an 8.8 are outboard of the bearings so there's no need to have to pull the bearings on and off all the time. I've done a couple 8.8's now and they've turned out pretty good, but I'm no where near the point of doing it for others. Right now if my stuff breaks, it's only me that feels bad.

Actually most 44's are out board shimmed these days, and even when they arent, its simple to go out board.

8.8's need to have ring gear teeth shaved, and use c-clips and crush sleeves. You can purchase an eliminator but its still extra expense ant pita.

I've geared about a dozen 8.8's and I find the 8.8 gear sets to be the most difficult to get good patterns on. Thats with a history of almost 400 regears including d30's, d44's, d35's, d60's, 14 bolts, 9", chrusler 8.25 and toyota 8's.

The only diff I've done thats worse to work on then an 8.8 is the chrysler 8.25
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Bnine on February 01, 2011, 08:38:28 AM
I have a HP30 and Ford 8.8 I'd like to go through before I slide them under my jeep does anyone know enough about axles that they could drink beer and enjoy free food while telling me I'm doing it wrong? I'm not looking for someone to do it for me, I'm fairly confident I can do most of it myself, but it would be nice to have someone smack me upside the head and tell me I have it in backwards BEFORE I put it all together  ;D

You need to call stan at northridge and order the following.

Year specific and hogh or low pinion specific D30, ARB specific master install kit, inlcuding side bearings. If you have a high pinion without vacum disco its 91-99 xj.

For the 8.8 you want an ARB specific master install kit and a crush sleeve eliminator kit from yukon. If you have the 31 spline disk brake 8.8 it should be from the late 90's exploder. Stan will know the diff.

Then, pull the yokes, and go to the gear center. Have them match them up and give you new ones as yours will most likely be grooved. Keep the old ones as spares.

I am pretty much booked through to the summer. I would talk to Jay at Chanda, or Dave at Broken Axle if you are considering having someone else do the installs.

Im not sure if they are comfortable with people hanging out or not. You would have to ask.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: Immortal on February 01, 2011, 09:52:12 PM
The only diff I've done thats worse to work on then an 8.8 is the chrysler 8.25

Aaron had mentioned that his was the last one you were EVER doing... silly Chysler engineers!!  ;D ;D :o
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: jpthing on February 24, 2011, 01:42:18 PM
Hey Vantagtes...here's a proposition for you. I have all the req'd tools ie dial indicator, dial trq wrench, press, clamshell puller, giant wrench for holding the yoke while you crush the sleeve, several old ground out bearings and misc. shims, books, specs,  etc.....but I am not a *certified* expert...I have done a few axles for myself and a friend which work fine so far and had acceptable pattern. Unfortuneately I do not have a lot of extra time and my beer supplies are sufficient.
MY PROPOSITION:
for $300 I will clear a day (and a space in my garage) when you could come work on your stuff. I will allow you to use all of the specialty tools but you will need to bring your own basic hand tools. I will offer whatever assistance you NEED, rather than helping you through the entire process. The results are entirely at your own risk. The $300 will cover the first 8 hours. After that $50 per hour if you want to keep working that night or rebook for another 8 hour day for another $300. While I am not assisting you I will keep a vauge eye on you while cleaning my garage and dealing with my own junk that needs attention. You will be 100% percent responsible for your safety. Garage is heated and well lit.  Price may be negotiable (a little). You will be responsible for any damage you cause to my tools or property.

You do not need to bring beer...we will need to start before 10 am.
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: .:.Dingman.:. on February 24, 2011, 01:56:37 PM
Jp if he takes you up on that offer I would like to come and watch I will supply my own beer.


Dingman
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: jpthing on February 24, 2011, 02:02:48 PM
dude you are so in...will you help me clean my garage?
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: .:.Dingman.:. on February 24, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
I would but I can't lift anything my back Is still messed I can supervise pretty good do you have any aftermarket diff covers to trade me.


Dingman
Title: Re: Rebuilding Axles
Post by: vantagetes on February 24, 2011, 07:20:41 PM
I would but I can't lift anything my back I'd still messed I can supervise pretty good do you have any aftermarket diff covers to trade me.


Dingman

 ;D