Calgary Jeep Association
General Forums => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: YoungFluff03TJ on February 02, 2011, 07:50:05 AM
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Alright so I've been getting Safeway gas for a while now. Cus its cheap when i enter my phone number in. And it has been good. But lately when i goto the Westhills one I get consistently worse gas milage. I reset my trip meter everytime I get gas, and the last 5 or so times I've gone to this place I get around 90 km less per tank.....I thought it was my Jeep (which may be still possible) but then I went to a different station and it went right back up...I dont use the heat when I drive so it cant be a big pull from that.
Anyone else have a problem with this? Or is someone stealing my gas? Is it just from the mad changes in temperature - I know when I filled last time it was around 0 and the next day it was -30 (thanks calgary) so is it possible the gas contracted that much? It only says volume corrected to 15 degrees on the tank...
Anyway....end rant.
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Is the safeway 45kms further than the other gas station? Lol jk...
But seriously. You DON'T use your heat??
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Driving from Canmore to Airdrie several days a week I notice the weather makes a HUGE difference in my fuel mileage.. No matter where I get fuel from. (Safeway/petro/fas gas/ 7/11 or whatever) If the temperature goes below -10 I instantly lose mileage while I'm not even using 4x4 and I'm driving nicer (Icy roads.. Can't let loose in the truck so much) If there isn't a cold snap I run about 11.6 L per 100km.. once it gets cold it goes down to like 15.xx L per 100km.. So big difference.
Hope that helps!
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Driving from Canmore to Airdrie several days a week I notice the weather makes a HUGE difference in my fuel mileage.. No matter where I get fuel from. (Safeway/petro/fas gas/ 7/11 or whatever) If the temperature goes below -10 I instantly lose mileage while I'm not even using 4x4 and I'm driving nicer (Icy roads.. Can't let loose in the truck so much) If there isn't a cold snap I run about 11.6 L per 100km.. once it gets cold it goes down to like 15.xx L per 100km.. So big difference.
Hope that helps!
Funnily enough I have noticed this recently as well. When it is -20 I seem to be hitting that 14 to 15L/100km mark but when warmer it is closer to 11 to 12L/100km mark. This is hwy stuff from here to Red Deer or Medhat so very little if any 4X4 engaged............never really paid any attention to it till I read this post.
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But seriously. You DON'T use your heat??
Naw justin I dont need to :) I was born in the winter :P
Thanks for the replys. This makes sense I guess....Its just.... annoying. I thought it would be due to the difference in temperature (as gas is volume corrected).... but the damn coldness
At least i know its not a technical problem
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How new is that particular gas station? I've heard the new the underground tanks the better mileage you get.
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i read a few years ago that (most? all?) gas stations switch to a winter blend which loses fuel economy. same with ethenol blends. there are also fuel stations that would throw a code in my avenger and my buddies sebring. after a tank of different fuel, the light would go off. i would also notice the smell from the exhaust was different... worse. never checked fuel economy though. the bad one was co-op. fill up there and light would be on within 20km. never used safeway gas.
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i would also notice the smell from the exhaust was different... worse.
who the frack are you kidding AL?...
Is the same phenomena happens when you eat beans and Doritos for a week?
It must be the fuel... ::)
HA!
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Good, I'm not the only one who noticed that even warmed up, the fuel economy was terrible when it was cold out. I thought we were supposed to get *better* mileage with denser air (think forced induction), and colder is denser. Perhaps the curves in our computers over-compensate rich when it's that cold out.
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I asked my dad since he's a mechanic and he says that although engines do run better on denser air, everything else doesn't.. Longer warm up times harder on parts yada yada
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Probably largely due to the increased thickness of oil in diff, t-case, transmission and of course cold tires. Not to mention pushing Jeep branded brick through denser air.
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Driving from Canmore to Airdrie several days a week I notice the weather makes a HUGE difference in my fuel mileage.. No matter where I get fuel from. (Safeway/petro/fas gas/ 7/11 or whatever) If the temperature goes below -10 I instantly lose mileage while I'm not even using 4x4 and I'm driving nicer (Icy roads.. Can't let loose in the truck so much) If there isn't a cold snap I run about 11.6 L per 100km.. once it gets cold it goes down to like 15.xx L per 100km.. So big difference.
Hope that helps!
Fuel injected vehicles are equipt with an ambient air temp sensor, so when the air is cold it is more dense and the computer will up the fuel statedgy. On start-up the engine will use a super rich mixture because it is easier to start in cold weather, and will continue to run the engine using more fuel and a retarded timing curve to bring the engine into closed loop faster(emission reasons). These are a few reason why no matter how you drive you will use more fuel in the winter.
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As for the station - its definitely not new. I knew sakeway wouldnt let me down :D
Makes sense that winter would attack my bank account. Another present from calgary i suppose. Ill just think of it as a fun-time-winter-driving/drifting fee
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i read a few years ago that (most? all?) gas stations switch to a winter blend which loses fuel economy. same with ethenol blends. there are also fuel stations that would throw a code in my avenger and my buddies sebring. after a tank of different fuel, the light would go off. i would also notice the smell from the exhaust was different... worse. never checked fuel economy though. the bad one was co-op. fill up there and light would be on within 20km. never used safeway gas.
X2
I cant say about the co-op gas, but the ethanol blend absolutely hurts economy, and "winter fuel" seems to burn more fuel. Best fuel I have had luck with this winter is Shell for mileage.
I read somewhere awhile back that all the oil companies that sell fuel in Canada must have an average of 10% ethanol blend. Further reading indicated that not all gas stations used E-10, nor do many indicate that they have it when you stop to fill up. Also, it appears that a general rule is premium fuel has 0% Ethanol.
The ethanol blends have "less energy" per litre, so they burn more fuel, and that is why vehicles with the capability to run E-85 burn a significantly more fuel than when they burn E-10 (or regular fuel).
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I do know with warmer air, you will get better fuel economy(minimal) but it will be slightly better, the colder the air will also allow you to get more power as it will burn more fuel. something like that anyway.
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Since I lifted the TJ and put on 33's I don't even bother with gas mileage. It's pathetic. Like less than 300km to a tank. Good thing I only drive it on the weekends.
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Like less than 300km to a tank.
:o
How big is the tank?
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Not sure how big the tank is. I think it's 72L but I could be wrong. Its a 2002 TJ Sport 4.0L w Auto with 3.73 gearing. I've lost alot of gas mileage with the 33's. Maybe regearing to 4.10 or 4.56 would gain me back what I lost. It really wouldn't take that long to pay for the regear if it brang back the mileage i'm losing
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I'm sure I'm going to take flak for saying this, but now I'm a bit lost. Since as someone pointed out air+fuel at a given F/A ratio or A/F ratio if you want means that for a given amount of air, whether dense or thin requires a proportionate amount of fuel, then how does making an engine turn over faster at a given road speed (aka higher numerical gears), which pushes more air+fuel mixture through the system improve mileage? If that were true, our best mileage would be in first gear if taken to the logical conclusion!
The only way I can see that happening is if you are so deep into the throttle with the lower numerical gears that you are at a higher F/A mixture, therefore using more fuel for the smaller amount of air+fuel mixture being pushed through the engine.
Now if you want more "Oomph", aka acceleration aka hill-climbing ability aka power etc. in a given gear, then it makes sense to use the higher numerical gears.
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Well I step on the gas pedal more with the loss of power from the 33's. If I had it geared correctly I wouldn't step on the gas near as much. Makes sense to me.
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Not sure how big the tank is. I think it's 72L but I could be wrong. Its a 2002 TJ Sport 4.0L w Auto with 3.73 gearing. I've lost alot of gas mileage with the 33's. Maybe regearing to 4.10 or 4.56 would gain me back what I lost. It really wouldn't take that long to pay for the regear if it brang back the mileage i'm losing
you might get a lot back if you fix your speedo gear. quite important for an automatic.
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our best fuel economy is in first gear.
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Perhaps best efficiency, best power due to torque multiplication from the gearing, sure, but economy? Not according to the ScangaugeII on my dash, which is setup to use the vehicle's own readings to display instantaneous fuel economy.... even idling down deerfoot in first gear is HORRIBLE economy compared to idling down deerfoot in 4'th or 5'th.
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our best fuel economy is in first gear.
Not true. My best fuel economy invariably occurs when I select "Mexican Overdrive".
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Not true. My best fuel economy invariably occurs when I select "Mexican Overdrive".
That would be downhill, in neutral?
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;)
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you might get a lot back if you fix your speedo gear. quite important for an automatic.
Why is that?
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Not true. My best fuel economy invariably occurs when I select "Mexican Overdrive".
Shows what you know not true again, my best fuel economy is in reverse
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I thought coasting down a hill in gear uses zero gas if you have a modernish engine
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Your best bet is to kick it into neutral, bacon grease those tires for less friction, and then shut the jeep off to go down the hill. Then your using no gas! Dont forget though at the bottom to spray the belt dressing back onto the tires, to counteract the effects of the bacon grease so you again get traction to go back up said hill, but then also dont expect your mileage to be any better going up. Unless your in a lifted Mango Rubi, and reversing apparently!
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I thought coasting down a hill in gear uses zero gas if you have a modernish engine
One question...if your engine is running, how does that happen without burning any gas?
You may be confusing hybrids with regular vehicles.
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Shows what you know not true again, my best fuel economy is in reverse
Well compared to your 181L/100kms in forward, ANYTHING is better!
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Not true. My best fuel economy invariably occurs when I select "Mexican Overdrive".
This totally explains why my dad drives this way... and all my cousins down in Mexico....
But ditto with my JK, been averaging between 14-15l/100km this winter, in summer when I first drove it off the lot I was getting about 10.9l/100km
As for this whole higher revs = more efficient speak... It is true that an engine wastes less gas and burns it more quickly at higher revs, they simply operate better. However, the lower the revs, the less fuel you use. This simply means that the engine isnt going to be burning the fuel passing through it as fully at low revs as it would at high revs.... but is still using less fuel, just using that fuel "less efficiently".
Best thing for mileage is drive like you had a glass of water on your dash trying not to spill it. No hard accelerating or braking. Look far ahead to plan your starts and stops. Nothing burns more fuel than taking off from a standstill.
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Your fuel milage is not based on the rpm of your engine. More so on how much fuel you have to give the engine to make it do what you want. If you are driving everywhere at low rpm's you have to give your engine more gas to make enough power. If you drive around at an rpm where your engine is making good power you don't need to give it much gas to keep you moving.
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Your fuel milage is not based on the rpm of your engine. More so on how much fuel you have to give the engine to make it do what you want. If you are driving everywhere at low rpm's you have to give your engine more gas to make enough power. If you drive around at an rpm where your engine is making good power you don't need to give it much gas to keep you moving.
this is so true...... and its why (back in the day when we had a stock TJ) it got worse mileage on the highway at 2100rpm than my Brick/YJ at 2600 rpm.......
its also the same reason i laugh at people that 'accelerate slowly' to save fuel; the whole time you are doin gthis, your engine is working harder as its lower in the RPM range, and your dumping more fuel into the mixture: then when you finally get into the powerband, it shifts out..... and you play the same game.
accelerate off the line, get up to speed and coast............. you'll see the same, if not better gas mileage, and you won't squirt poeple off that are stuck behind you ;) funny thing i noticed in the JK; if you are coasting, it lights up the 'eco' mode in the dash. this usually comes on under 2000rpm; howver, if the engines struggleing, its off; when accelerating, it never says 'eco' mode....... no matter what the RPM. it only hits 'eco' when coasting. so i accelerate to speed, then coast........ works the best.
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One question...if your engine is running, how does that happen without burning any gas?
You may be confusing hybrids with regular vehicles.
Nope, the computer is smart enough to cut the gas and let the engine run on momentum. I have heard this from numerous sources, we also had an audi that would display zero fuel usage coasting down hill in gear. Now I'm not sure if a tj engine is this smart, but maybe the JK's are?
Me confuse a hybrid with a regular vehicle...never....
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It may "display" zero fuel usage...and you may have "heard it" from a few sources...but then again I've heard from sources that high zinc oil and belt dressing will cure the clap, and the computer in Silverfox's JK displays some VERY interesting fuel economy figures. Just ask him about it ;)
If you stick your nose in front of your tailpipe when your engine is running and in neutral, you will find that there is indeed fuel being burned, and thus there is a lovely exhaust smell. The same applies when coasting downhill with a non-hybrid vehicle. I will certainly agree that you're not buring much fuel...but there is still fuel flowing into the engine. I would be rather surprised if a non-hybrid actually shuts down the fuel flow while the engine is running (regardless of whether or not it's in gear). If it were to do that, what's going to happen when you get to the bottom of the hill?
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Or, Todd, you can also prove this by starting your engine, placing the vehicle in PARK, and walking away..... You then return several hours later, and check your fuel guage. If that doesn't work, you have obviously not given the engine time to burn enough fuel to move the guage. Come back tomorrow.
This is fast progressing into a "How do I get better mileage out of my Jeep?" topic.
For all of you that are about to ask.... YOU DON'T! BUY A FU@&ING CIVIC!!!!
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But I don't want a civic...
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I don't remember the km's/litre on my jeep but it was 9-11 mpg. It sucked!! I was spending 600+ a month to drive to school and around town. Bought a sunfire and I get 30 mpg driving the same way I drove the jeep, pays itself off in about 5 months. I will admit it I do miss the jeep though :'(
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If you stick your nose in front of your tailpipe when your engine is running and in neutral, you will find that there is indeed fuel being burned, and thus there is a lovely exhaust smell.
For those that are not willing to kneel down on the slushy roads here Im sure you can also post in the WTB section for a length of rubber hose, and then run that into the cab with the windows closed... It will perhaps solve your fuel economy issues, and keep posts like this down to 3 pages, instead of 8 like the other one!
Trevor perhaps said it best -
This is fast progressing into a "How do I get better mileage out of my Jeep?" topic.
For all of you that are about to ask.... YOU DON'T! BUY A FU@&ING CIVIC!!!!
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I was spending 600+ a month to drive to school and around town.
What the....like 600 dollars...canadian dollars? a month? do you live in america and drive here every day?
Anyway my question was answered about 20 posts ago...in case...anyone was still wondering....