Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Land Issues, Trail Projects & Trail Stewardship => Topic started by: Spinalguy on February 15, 2011, 02:28:11 PM
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Thought you all might enjoy this one. :'(
So, how long before this gets released to the public? i vote just before May Long the papers will pick up on this ridiculous self serving study >:(
http://www.ghostwatershed.ca/GWAS/Research_&_Data_files/Ghost_Presentation%20%20-%20Cornel%20Yarmoloy%20and%20Brad%20Stelfox%20%28Feb2011%29_1.pdf (http://www.ghostwatershed.ca/GWAS/Research_&_Data_files/Ghost_Presentation%20%20-%20Cornel%20Yarmoloy%20and%20Brad%20Stelfox%20%28Feb2011%29_1.pdf)
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And this is the extended version:
http://www.alces.ca/reports/download/107/Ghost_Presentation%20%20-%20Cornel%20Yarmoloy%20and%20Brad%20Stelfox%20%20(Feb2011).pdf (http://www.alces.ca/reports/download/107/Ghost_Presentation%20%20-%20Cornel%20Yarmoloy%20and%20Brad%20Stelfox%20%20(Feb2011).pdf)
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Didn't we predict this outcome when GAMP was first implemented? Here's a couple of trails to play with and we'll use that to compare 5years from now....then wham. Look according to stat's your the problem.
And I agree, this won't be released to the media until May 18th for the annual May Long witch hunt.
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Well, i am not sure why no one else is getting fired up about this horribly non scientific study that lambastes OHV activity in the Ghost. It is NOT an SRD study but they may very well use it. SRD needs to read our comments to hopefully not use this JOKE of a study.
Please comment on the study. i have edited my original post.
i offer you this link to the riding community and their comments...
http://forums.rmdra.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6818 (http://forums.rmdra.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6818)
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i'm pretty fumed off, but this is just a slide show; what i'm really interested to see is the presentation that undoubtedly goes with this................ the only real info is that OHV = bad.......... I would love to hear them explain the slides portraying future forestry's connection to eco tourism in the area, and mabye explain some of those slides and stats..........
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Well, i am not sure why no one else is getting fired up about this horribly non scientific study that lambastes OHV activity in the Ghost. It is NOT an SRD study but they may very well use it. SRD needs to read our comments to hopefully not use this JOKE of a study.
Please comment on the study. i have edited my original post.
i offer you this link to the riding community and their comments...
http://forums.rmdra.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6818 (http://forums.rmdra.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6818)
After reviewing both the short and long study I fully agree with you. This study is more an opinion than based on any scientific study. Also it seems as though they are using data that is 5 to 7 years out of date. I will comment accordingly.
I did find it humorous that the final picture is him (I am assuming) standing beside his pack horse in an open field...........paints a nice picture. I could do the same thing with the jeep, clean it up stand there in nice clothes with my two boys and my daughter on a nice sunny day all smiles, would make it a very positive spin. This document is more about spin than fact...........a shame really.
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It is interesting to read some of the comments at RMDRA. i am sure there are many on here who can dissect this thing apart to show the biased and non professional approach that the Authors took.
Also, maybe we can look finally at doing our own studies. MAYBE its time we can finally unite all OHV users and pool our money and resources to fight back?
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I am hesitant to comment because I really don't know what are facts and what aren't or the history of some of these parks. I will say though that my impression going through the slides is that it was very one sided. Majority of the graphs looked as though it was targeting the OHV groups and the pictures were probably some of the worst areas (assuming) that had been beaten up. As Silverfox said, that last picture of the guy with his horse really topped it off and makes your realize that these individuals are likely back country backpackers/hikers/horseriders and feel that anything other than that doesn't belong.
Spinalguy, I think you have a good idea with getting all the groups together to fund some sort of a study, it would at minimum show the SRD that the responsible groups are not interested in hiding anything and want to find ways to preserve those park areas as well. One thing I would be interested in seeing is a look at the effects of closing trail systems, how much extra traffic it brings to the current open ones and/or how opening up new trail systems could alleviate some of the wear and tear on the limited number of available trails now.
I was reading an article in one of the 4x4 magazines and they were discussing how they took their governing people out on a wheeling trip with them. To show them how the responsible groups use the land. Is this something that has been considered or offered in the past? Should we look at contacting the SRD and asking them to come out for a day?
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Well, i am not sure why no one else is getting fired up about this horribly non scientific study that lambastes OHV activity in the Ghost. It is NOT an SRD study but they may very well use it. SRD needs to read our comments to hopefully not use this JOKE of a study.
Please comment on the study. i have edited my original post.
i offer you this link to the riding community and their comments...
Spinalguy I'm surprised to see you react to an unscientific view this represents and think that ASRD won't run with it.
I guess you forget how the entire GAMP process was brought out and introduced with no scientific backing at all. They base all thier information on one fly over and direct government attention to that one problem. Unless things have changed and government people aren't either OHV users themselves or sleeping with them I doubt you'll see a loss of OHV trails anyway. The trick is to interest them in 4x4's instead and those trails would be saved as well.
Yes taking ASRD officials and government officials out on trails has been done before and it still gets you squat.
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Spinalguy I'm surprised to see you react to an unscientific view this represents and think that ASRD won't run with it.
I guess you forget how the entire GAMP process was brought out and introduced with no scientific backing at all. They base all thier information on one fly over and direct government attention to that one problem. Unless things have changed and government people aren't either OHV users themselves or sleeping with them I doubt you'll see a loss of OHV trails anyway. The trick is to interest them in 4x4's instead and those trails would be saved as well.
Yes taking ASRD officials and government officials out on trails has been done before and it still you squat.
i guess Gun at the end of the day, where will it stop? The bike group did get 41kms of singletrack on the map and we are in the process of getting 50km more in Waiporous. Slowly, but i believe its based on all the work we have accomplished in Maclean. Luckily because our initial focus was Maclean (as it was and is still open), they rewarded our efforts by allowing us to open up stuff in Waiporous.
i do think that SRD will use this RIDICULOUS study and gawd help us all if Teddy Moron wins the Premiership. Remember him? Think Indian Graves.
Its time for us to buck up and get our own study done.
or
We can just continue to volunteer in Waiporous (4x4 groups) and get what we have got...some winter trails. Wait for them to either take the mere pittance of trails given (67kms) and call it a day.
What to do, what to do????
And Yes Gun and 4WS took the SRD for a ride along that they were impressed with how wheelin is conducted (they had no idea thinking everything was Johnson Bog mentality).
i agree that we all know GAMP was a frickin joke. >:(
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Just for the record, I want to clarify your last sentence because that makes it sound like we took them for the ride along and then lost the the 1200km's of trails. We took them for that trip after Gamp was in place.
Huge difference to set straight. :)
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Just for the record, I want to clarify your last sentence because that makes it sound like we took them for the ride along and then lost the the 1200km's of trails. We took them for that trip after Gamp was in place.
Huge difference to set straight. :)
Ha,ha,ha...yeah i see how that looked, definitely not what i meant. i will edit that into a better sentence.
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I really don't want to say .."Gunther, you were right all along"...LOL ;)
I hope it will not come to that .... ;D
hey what the heck ...maybe we'll get a sexy ASRD minister that's intrested to see the back seat of a Jeep. I'm sure there is someone out there that could take one for the greater good of the sport! ;D
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There is one thing I think we should do and I've thought about it for a few years now.
When ever someone has thier camping unit packed and ready to roll for that trip to Moab, South Dakota, California for the Rubicon trail, or B.C. I think we should be taking the time to stop at the Alberta borders with our fully loaded rigs and take a picture beside the "Thank You for Visiting Alberta" signs, then send those pictures to Travel Alberta and the Tourism Minister with a detailed travel discription of how long you spent there and exactly why you left Alberta to spend you tourism dollars else where instead of keeping it in the province to enjoy what could be a world class wheeling area if promoted properly and of course trails added to the system.
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Non motorized traffic!
Mr. Horsey isn't a saint:
(http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/14410/wm/pd1138794.jpg)
(http://thevelvetrocket.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/valle-de-cocora-7.jpg?w=500&h=666)
Nor is Mr. Bicycle:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2981731364_d5d097109b_z.jpg)
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I have a feeling the axe is going to come down hard and heavy at some point in the near future, whether we like it or not. Just as it has in the past, it's the "history repeating it's self again" theory.
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all this is going to do is make people travel to places that arnt so anal , and that means way less income on teh long weekends for the central alberta area
ill drive the 8 hours to go to BC so i dont get haseled and most likely wont get snowed on either for may long
its a shame that we all have to loose out because of the few that dont care (mud bogging 454's on 44 inch tires )
and yes the so called study is a joke but if we dont give anything for SRD to read or to look at they only have that useless slideshow to go off of
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all this is going to do is make people travel to places that arnt so anal , and that means way less income on teh long weekends for the central alberta area
ill drive the 8 hours to go to BC so i dont get haseled and most likely wont get snowed on either for may long
its a shame that we all have to loose out because of the few that dont care (mud bogging 454's on 44 inch tires )
and yes the so called study is a joke but if we dont give anything for SRD to read or to look at they only have that useless slideshow to go off of
ummm...i just want to point out that size and engine have no basis for blame. It will always be the DRIVER. Also if you were not here for GAMP or Indian Graves closures, i can tell you it was blanket closure and the decision had nothing to do with hp and tire size. It was a stabbing in the back of the 4x4 and bike community.
Lets NOT point fingers when it comes to OHV's.
Thanks.
Gun, i like your idea. i think it should be documented.
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i have only heard people opinions on why those other areas have closed .
i just know the media focusses on the larger trucks on the long weekends and it makes us all look bad
i know a quad with some mean tires can make a mess of an area and a truck on huge tires might be a bit more gental so it does come down to the driver / rider
so what can we do then to keep our little areas open
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so what can we do then to keep our little areas open
If these temperatures continue I'm sure he ll will freeze over long before we can stop the ball rolling over our trails. PC in government in Alberta will just continue to do what ever they darn well please.
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PC in government in Alberta
their days are numbered; maybe its time to align witha party that would cater to our sport...............
i tried to figure out which party that is, but none of them have gotten back to me..........
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their days are numbered; maybe its time to align witha party that would cater to our sport...............
i tried to figure out which party that is, but none of them have gotten back to me..........
Even if they do get back to you.....can you honestly trust them to help out? Or will it just be more lies and false promises?
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I posted this in another thread but i think it should be here also.
I fully admit I know very little, or anything for that matter, on this subject. I would like to get involved but am unsure how a plain ol wheeler like myself can help. I use the trails of course and I use them with respect. If I can help please let me know.
I would like to ad this though. Maybe old Ted Morton would have a bit more of an open ear now that he is trying to get elected? There has to be many hundreds(thousands even) of outdoor users who vote. Politics are involved I'm sure in the decisions made about the trails. Maybe we, as wheelers, let old Teddy know how we feel via our vote. I know just in my family alone there are 15 votes. Add that to all the other wheelers and their families out there we should have a stong voice.
JEEPLESS
aka TANK