Calgary Jeep Association

4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Corbitto on May 13, 2012, 10:47:46 PM

Title: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 13, 2012, 10:47:46 PM
hello jeepersssssss.  have a question or questionssss i guess lol.  first a quick background on it.  We were out playing in the mud in my 91 jeep yj with the fuel injected 4.0.  and goin through a deeper area a little too fast i guess and a wave of water came over the top of the front part of the hood and the jeep died almost instantly.   I got the jeep pulled home after getting out of the water and the quest began hahaha.  so. pulled air filter out which was soaked and there was maybe 1 cm of water in the bottom of airbox. dried ot box and replaced filter  pulled distributer cap off and wd'd it and pulled plug wires spark plugs out which were wet on the contact tip.   i pulled oil dipstick and found no evidence of water.  let jeep air out in the nice warm week we had and then changed plugs, wires cap rotor. jeep turns over but wont fire.   i have double triple and quadruple check wires to ensure they were in the proper spot.  removing one spark plug and holding it against the block it gets spark when turning jeep over so i am guessing coil and distributer are ok.
as i turn jeep over i can hear fuel pump turn on and checked the fuel pressure port on fuel rail and it has pressure as i squirted out like a bastard when i pressed the thing in lol. lad i didnt stand in front of it lol. 

so. been googling and haynes manualing all weekend and am left with maybe crankcase position sensor. i unplugged sensor and tested the plug on the main wiring harness and it read 105 ohms. book says should be 200+-75. but is that at the other end of sensor attached to bellhousing.  i am guessing so but brain is tired from playing with this jeep lol .  i was goin to try that tomororw since its covered in oil and $hit lol.

any othe rsuggestions???  would appreciate any ideas thanks for your time!!!
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: AV.NINE on May 13, 2012, 10:57:02 PM
Id take your distributer cap off and spray it with wd40. Should solve the issue.

If you get the distributer wet those old ones die. You may get spark but anywhere near enough.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 13, 2012, 11:08:05 PM
I replaced distributer cap since old one had lots of deposits on the contacts.  i also checked all my fuses under the hood and they were all ok
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: frenchy on May 13, 2012, 11:26:40 PM
Typically you should immediately pull the plugs and crank it over to get the the water out.

You have spark and fuel but that's not going to work well if your spark plugs are in a pool of dirty water.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 05:46:03 AM
sorry i did pull plugs and turn over when i got home as well.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 09:27:10 AM
Does it sound like its trying to fire??  Do you have compression?  Wouldn't a bad CPS fire but immediately quit???  Not many sensors on these things I gots a 91 too. Check connections to ecu??  I can't think of a sensor that would completely disable the engine from firing. CPS is most likely if it is a sensor. Does your rotor move when you crank the engine (broken distro gear?????).  Keep updated as I'm quite intrigued :)

1 more thing any codes before the incident. This is really random. BUT I remember reading a long time ago about a guy who had the MAINT REQUIRED light come on he left it on for a long time (just indicates o2 should be replaced) now if I remember correctly he said that when he cleared it the jeep fired up again. I do NOT believe this could have been his problem, I dont know much about this system except that on pre 91 it was on a km clock type doohickey and our 91s and up it needs an old scan tool hooked up to diag port next to washer bottle. Worth a look.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 10:11:25 AM
Yes there was a check engine light on since I bought it. Not sure what te code was. Just assumed o2 sensor and just ignored it.  Rotor must spin since I pointed it in one direction then turned over and it was pointin in a different direction. 
So if it is crankcase sensor would I still have spark at the en of my spark plug when trying to turn over while touching block?
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 10:12:46 AM
Sorry it also turns over but doesn't seem like its trying to catch
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: morerpmfred on May 14, 2012, 10:47:16 AM
Had a similar problem the last time I had the distributer under water. Would try to catch. Had spark some times. Changed the magnetic pickup inside the distribuer. Worked fine after.


Sent from my I junk
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: JackstandJohnny on May 14, 2012, 12:26:09 PM
Had a similar problem the last time I had the distributer under water. Would try to catch. Had spark some times. Changed the magnetic pickup inside the distribuer. Worked fine after.


Sent from my I junk

also called the camshaft position sensor, or pickup coil at some parts places.

this is a sensor that sits in the dizzy.

pull your codes, if you already haven't this a magical place to start when dealing with electrical.  google 'three key trick' or whatever to pull your codes. 

count the number of flashes.  if its your camshaft position sensor you will get a code 54.  if so, replace it.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 04:52:35 PM
guy in turner valley will pull codes on wed am. so i will have to wait till then i guess.   hoping its an easy fix hahahaahahahaha. ya right eh. its a jeep
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 05:11:39 PM
You can do the codes yourself.  Key in ign, to ign on (not start), key off, key on, key off,  and for the third time key on. Your codes will flash on the CEL (Check Engine Light) you count 2 numbers per code.  as John stated 54 would be 5 flashes, then pause, then 4 flashes, then longer pause as next code will fire off. 55 means end of reading. Now there are 2 engine lights.  In my previous post I was mentioning the "MAINT REQ" light don't confuse that with the actual "Check Engine" light, the latter is the more important one and the one you count for codes.   These obd1 engines are usaualy pretty simple.

Another thing to add. You stated it's not trying to catch. I think you should go through the basics first. An reciprocating internal combustion engine needs three things to run:
1.  Compression
2.  Fuel
3.  Ignition
Check your BASICS first. You say you have spark. Have you squirted some carb cleaner into the throat of the beast if it catches or try's you've made progress. I would start checking fuel. If still no. I would check compression. Who knows you may have hydro locked engine way worse than originally thought. Or timing waaaayyy out.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 05:34:05 PM
sweet thats a handy "key"trick. just did it and got only two codes for the check engine light.  was #12 and 33. which are common codes for battery has been disconnected within last 50 startups and 33 common code cause i have no ac.   before this jeep went sour at me. there was the maint required light on but it was on since i bought it so nog sure what it was.  i was told it was simple sensor and not to worry about it.  maybe i should have been?  i poured a 1/2 ounce of gas down throat. and didnt do anything.  maybe wortH another try. or how much should i put in
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 05:38:19 PM
okay so now looking down throat where air filter hose attaches.  the fuel in throat looks like a thin whiteish colour foam on top and definitely not clear.  so water in fuel i suppose right.  any way to get that sucked out or??  sorry. this isthe most in depth i have gone for engine repairs.  i can weld but definitely a noob on engines.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 06:12:24 PM
hydrolocked?  lol how can i test to see for sure?
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: frenchy on May 14, 2012, 06:14:51 PM
Post up a pic of the white stuff in your throat
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 07:06:33 PM
Post up a pic of the white stuff in your throat

LMFAO ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sorry had 2
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 07:08:14 PM
hahahahahaha. wow.  i may never live this down but i will try to get pic of white stuff in my throat lol
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 07:18:52 PM
OK in all seriousness :-[
if you hydro-locked it you would have bent the valves as too much water in the cylinders. air compresses, water not so much.  This would be very evident when you do a compression test. good compression over 120 in each cyl.
but yes still post the pic.  if you have an abundance of (we will call it) liquid in your intake. pull the throttle body off and let it all dry out.  then squirt carb cleaner into the open intake as someone turns key.  carb cleaner is pressurized and atomizes better than liquid gasoline that is not being run through the injectors.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 07:23:18 PM
trying to figure out how to post pics from my iphone. me cant dooo itttt
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 07:27:22 PM
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=22042.0
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 07:34:30 PM
a
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 07:39:36 PM
Link No Worky
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 07:42:23 PM
Fck. anyone have an email i can send them and post for me. i dunno how to do this.  i click on additional options but doesnt say anything about a pic to upload. i have only ipad or iphone no base computer
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 07:50:18 PM
send to me.  [email protected]
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 07:55:37 PM
sent
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 08:11:11 PM
that pic is hard to make out but if thats in your tb remove it and dry that crap out
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 08:13:09 PM
doesnt look too bad no?  or is any little bit enough to mess things up
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 08:28:58 PM
found write up on how to take apart and clean throttle body. so maybe i will try that and spray in the opening whiel trying to start like u said
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 08:45:03 PM
whats the easiest way to get tht crap out.  i dont have any hose or i would prob shove it in and suck on it and emptyminto a bucket

Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 09:11:13 PM
I would use rags/shop towels (blue) to soak up as much as you can and maybe a hair dryer to evap the rest.  just remember to remve everything before you try to crank it over.  also with the tb off there is nothing to regulate/restrict airflow (throttle plate) so if/when it starts it will become a runaway engine, so remember to remove key/shut down.  OR replace tb before trying to start.removing tb is quite easy.  4 bolts, throttle cable, IAC harness, TPS harness, thats it.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 09:39:15 PM
so gotmthrottle body out and cleaned out the dirty fuel that i could reach sitting in bottom.  should i just use carb cleaner to clean throttle body assembly as welland avoid getting sensors all wet? as well as then leave throttle body off while spraying thr carb cleaner into manifold while someone trys to start it
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 09:51:33 PM
i would put throttle body back on after you dry intake. Intake should be bone dry no fuel or water
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 09:55:37 PM
well i cleaned everything i could outta it. the bottom area where throttle body sits is dry. so i just remount it and leave dry or pour some clean gas in? lol probably a dumb question but this is all new to me and i appreciate all the help!  or leave dry and try to start jeep while sprayingcarb cleaner down throat? 
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 09:59:30 PM
leave dry and try to start jeep while sprayingcarb cleaner down throat?  

this is best, small shots at a time
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 14, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
ok will try tomorrow after work. thanks again for ur help
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: BUKI on May 14, 2012, 10:20:05 PM
no worries
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 15, 2012, 06:48:37 PM
cleaned throttole body and such and reinstalled cleaned all dirty fuel from manifold.  sprayed carb cleaner in throat while trying to start. using short bursts.  should i put clean fuel down manifold and if so how much. how much of the carb cleaner should i spray?  is there too much?  engine is so close it seems to firng. man.
Title: Re: HELPPPP jeep wont start after water episode
Post by: Corbitto on May 15, 2012, 08:01:47 PM
she is alive and running!!! thanks formeveryones advice. she is back on the road!  idling around 900. lotsa power on the highway.  maybe i shiuld put some fuel injector cleaner and fuel treatment in to burn off water and crap