Calgary Jeep Association
General Forums => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: birdo on October 01, 2012, 11:06:52 PM
-
Well, here's a good one. I got pulled over last Thursday evening by the RCMP. The claim was I didn't fully stop at a stop sign. So the Officer asks for the usual license, insurance and registration. Well, I find my license, insurance and my motorcycle registration ok (they were all in my wallet) but my Jeep rego is nowhere to be found. So as he is checking my credentials I'm digging around in the Jeep for my rego paper. Now I know it is in there but I just can't locate it.
So he comes back and cites me $176.00 and says "just a warning on the stop sign" but you get a ticket for not producing registration. 5 minutes later and I'm home now tearing the Jeep apart because I know it's in there. 2 minutes later I find it in a little CD caddy I have attached to my sun visor. Total brain fart.
Anyway...I think I'm going to take my chances in the local Okotoks Court later on this month and fight it. Any advice? Even a small reduction would be nice. I only work part time due to my health. 38 years without a ticket or infraction I might add. Might be enough ammo for court huh? I understand from others that the Officers rarely show up to court here so it might be worth it.
-
If you have the time, definitely show up in court. Maybe they'll reduce it or maybe the cop won't show.
Worst case you pay the $176.00
-
Next time that happens, go to the detachment right away and produce it. They will usually do something if its right at that point. I don't think it matters if he shows up to court or not, its failing to produce, doesn't require him to act as a witness. It's also not city court where they are so backed up its worth it to cut you a deal just to reduce the flow through court.
-
My experience in Okotoks traffic court is the Officers are there most times. Both times i have gone they take up half the court room, lol. It's also my experience with the Peace Officers and the RCMP that they are more then willing to negotiate on demerits or price of the infraction. I live in Okotoks and have had a couple friendly encounters speeding on the highways outside of the Town.
-
Failure to produce is not an offense that has demerit points attached. Additionaly, they will not withdraw the ticket if you go to the station and show them the valide registration, you got ticketed for being unable to produce it, which you couldn't. The best bet is going to the early appearance crown and asking for a reduction in the ticket. Taking your registration with you when you ask for the reduction can't hurt, neither can telling them what you told us, that you are only working part time due to health. You might get lucky and they will just chuck it since they have bigger fish to fry. You don't have to take their first offer either, their job is to keep you out of the courtroom.
-
IMHO. Who was in the wrong? Regardless if you stopped for the stop sign or not, YOU did not produce your registration. I would go and plea that you work part time and get the ticket reduced. It's frustrating I know, but take accountability in your mistake. I'm not trying to be a dick or a know it all, just my opinion. Here look I'm putting in a smiley ;D. The cop gave you a break on a demerit ticket and gave you a fine. That's already a reduction. Doesn't go on your drivers abstract or insurance. Now if the cop WAS a dick or was power tripping, that's a different story. I hate that, luckily I haven't had too many of those. ;). Oh I forgot to add. Binare has a point... Don't you get 24hrs to produce or is that for insurance.
-
Don't you get 24hrs to produce or is that for insurance.
Neither. There is a charge for failure to produce proof of financial responsibility (insurance pink slip) or valid registration, these must be produced on demand or you are guilty of an offense. The interesting thing with insurance is that you can get insurance, get the pink slip from the company, cancel the insurance and the police won't know when you present the pink slip.
Then there is a different charge for driving without insurance or registration. People can usually get the driving without insurance ticket knocked down by providing a letter from their insurance company stating that they were insured on the day in question.
-
yes. if you get pulled over without insurance but do have it (pink slip in the mail etc) let them give you the 3k fine; go home, call insurance, get proof of insurance, go down to the police station (within 24 hrs) tickets waived. this is common knowledge.
the reason they give you the 'failure to produce registration' is to avoid just that; and get some money out of the deal. typical canadian thing; you'll get penalized more for not having proper paperwork in this country than for actually committing the crime/infraction. look at all the gun registry bull. legally owning a handgun can land you in jail for a longer sentence than stealing one and robbing a bank.....
.
fyi, RCMP in Okotoks will show up for every single court appearance. They get paid double time to show up when they're not on shift, and paid when on shift; theres almost no chance it'll get tossed out.
-
Laws changed a couple of years ago regarding insurance charge. Once charge is laid only the crown prosecutor (sp) can dismiss the charge once he sees letter from insurance company. However there may be a day or two delay till he actually gets the paperwork.
-
fyi, RCMP in Okotoks will show up for every single court appearance. They get paid double time to show up when they're not on shift, and paid when on shift; theres almost no chance it'll get tossed out.
Really?
I got a speeding ticket outside of Okotoks and went to court there to get my fine/demerits reduced. It was a lengthy wait but the RCMP officer did not show up. The process was hassle-free and took under 10 minutes once it was my turn. It was totally worth it for me to appear.
-
I always go to "fight" my tickets politely, last one I had was speeding on deerfoot, 1130 pm, after picking my mom up from the airport. no one around, under cover pulled me over, speedo said 110, but as soon as the lights came on, i remembered i was running larger tires. He said you can get away with 5 o 10 over, but 119kph, i said yes sir. Gave me the ticket, and when i went into court, turned out he didnt hand in his copy, and i got off with no fine, no demerits.
First thing My dad told me when I got my license, was dont be rude to a cop when they pull me over, always say call them sir,
Never failed me, ive full out blown two stop signs and been let off two other highway speeding tickets with a warning. Same thing in court, catch more flys with honey than vinigar. Always worked for me, im sure you will do just fine.
-
I always go to "fight" my tickets politely, last one I had was speeding on deerfoot, 1130 pm, after picking my mom up from the airport. no one around, under cover pulled me over, speedo said 110, but as soon as the lights came on, i remembered i was running larger tires. He said you can get away with 5 o 10 over, but 119kph, i said yes sir. Gave me the ticket, and when i went into court, turned out he didnt hand in his copy, and i got off with no fine, no demerits.
First thing My dad told me when I got my license, was dont be rude to a cop when they pull me over, always say call them sir,
Never failed me, ive full out blown two stop signs and been let off two other highway speeding tickets with a warning. Same thing in court, catch more flys with honey than vinigar. Always worked for me, im sure you will do just fine.
That and there's really no point in arguing on the side of the road, you're never going to win. If they pulled you over with the intention of giving you a ticket, you're getting a ticket. If you have a problem with it, that's what court is for. That being said unless the ticket is going to cost me over $600 it's not worth me taking a day off work to fight it, even if I'll win.
-
Thanks for the info guys. Seems to be quite a variety of answers and opinions. I have decided to fight this in court as I don't work Mondays (which is the court date) Like one guy said, by going to court, you have nothing to lose. I understand that is something we don't do enough in or society is rock up to court to fight our infractions enough. In my research I have discovered that 1. There is nothing to lose and probably a bit to gain. 2. That if everyone showed up to court, the system would be so jammed that our legislators would have to devise a better system. I have composed a statement which I will present to the Crown on my court date. It may get no further than that, which would be fine. The crazy part about not being able to produce the rego paper is the fact that I was able to show license and proof of insurance and that little sticker on your plate is proof that you are registered. After all, you can't get registration without proof of insurance. I can see where not producing proof of insurance would be a much more serious matter. Anyway.....we shall see how it goes later this month. Thanks for the feedback.
BTW.....I did ask the officer on the night that if I located the paper, would there be some time in which to produce. The answer I got was "no". I was quite polite and civil about the whole thing. I do understand from others who have been tagged by this RC, that he has a reputation for being a bit of a hard case.
BTW BTW.....ask anyone in this town how has received a citation and they will generally tell you that the police here seem to spend a lot of time and effort on very minor matters. A warning to anyone passing thru here...mind your driving P's and Q's. Case in point...my street is posted 40kms, which very few actually do. When I file a complaint the usual reply is "what do you want us to do about it?" Yet, they constantly nail people in areas where a few kms over are met with a gauntlet of radar traps but actually have very little to do with public safety. The 60 kph zone as you enter the town from the North on 2A is a prime source of revenue.
-
So Monday October 29th is my date with the Court. Watch this space for a report later on. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome.
-
OK...back from Court...talked to the Crown Prosecutor which took all of 30 seconds. Fine reduced from $172.00 to $30. That was worth the visit.
Having now gone thru the process and talking to others at the Courthouse, people really need to go and fight these tickets. Just the savings in fines alone is well worth it.
Some of the leadfoots there today really got some fines and points taken off....and they never saw the inside of the Courtroom.
-
How much time did you take off work to save $142? If you make average income it ain't worth it, that's the problem.
-
How much time did you take off work to save $142? If you make average income it ain't worth it, that's the problem.
How do you figure this? Average salary in Alberta is $48,100 (2008 number) which works out to $23.13/hr. So as long as the "average" Albertan spends 6 hours or less at the court house getting a $142 reduction, they are saving money. Obviously this changes based on hourly earning potential and the time needed to be taken off from work.
The last ticket I fought took me 3 hours and that included making an appearance in front of a judge.
-
Well that's below the average TAKE HOME pay now, no surprise there, just read it in the paper so it must be true ;) Is your gas to drive to Okotoks free? Is your time to drive there and back free? Mine certainly ain't. Making slightly above average, by the time I drove to Okotoks, stood around for 3 hours, drove all the way back to the far northside of Calgary to get my work van then clocked in for work and payed the roundtrip gas, it wouldn't be worth it, I EASILY figure :)
EDIT: actually the number I read was household takehome, however even if I made average salary, I still wouldn't find it worth it. Id lose well a good 5 or 6 hours of my day to lost wages to go stand in court, for what? A $10-$20 dollar net savings at average income? Still don't think its worth it :)
-
The money is irrelavent if you where wrongly given a ticket. This is part of demacracy that gives you the right to face your accusers. With out this what would we have?
-
The money is irrelavent if you where wrongly given a ticket. This is part of demacracy that gives you the right to face your accusers. With out this what would we have?
How is it a wrongly given ticket? The RCMP asked him for his registration and he failed to produce it. Yeah it sucks ballz but that is the law.
-
How is it a wrongly given ticket? The RCMP asked him for his registration and he failed to produce it. Yeah it sucks ballz but that is the law.
I'd argue the fact that the vehicle has a valid plate IS proof of registration.
I've only ever fought one traffic ticket and that was for driving with a suspended licence. My defense was I moved and failed to update my address. The judge threw out the ticket in about 10 seconds.
-
I'd argue the fact that the vehicle has a valid plate IS proof of registration.
Can be the appearance of valid registration, but not proof. Stickers can be stolen and put onto a different plate.
The only proof is the stamped copy provided by the registry, which should be in the car anyways.
-
. Yeah it sucks ballz but that is the law.
So because its law its automatically fair? Ethical? And the only way? Not saying this particular law is bad, I just dislike your take on the situation is all ;D
The money is irrelavent if you where wrongly given a ticket. This is part of demacracy that gives you the right to face your accusers. With out this what would we have?
Read carefully
-
Can be the appearance of valid registration, but not proof. Stickers can be stolen and put onto a different plate.
Yes, and a simple run of the plate number (which is almost always done before the car is pulled over) will not only tell the officer whether or not the car is registered, it will tell him if the registered owner has a valid licence and if there are any outstanding warrants.
-
Is it even worth arguing about? We all know you get a ticket if you don't provide your slips, end of story. Does it really matter why or why not?
-
i do not know about Okotoks but you can go down ANY day you want (as long as the ticket has been processed which usually is 3 weeks prior to court date appearance) in Calgary.
Speak to the Crown and get the same deal as OP posted.
You need to get there early as its a line up, first come first served basis. i believe it opens at 8am. i was there at 7am and was done by 8:30am.
EDIT: ANY day being M thru F
-
From my perspective....granted it was my day off today but I was in at 9am and out at 9:45. The Courthouse was jam packed with most folks fighting their tickets.
I bet I spent less than a minute with the Crown....he pitched an offer and I took it. Sure I had the option to go to trial but it was a fair deal. A whole lot better than blindly handing over 170 some odd hard earned dollars. The system is skewed to take advantage of the average working stiff knowing full well that most won't take the time off work to go and fight. The Crown was quite sympathetic to my story when I got the chance to explain. Remember that part of his job is to keep folks out of the courtrooms by allowing the process of plea bargaining to occur. Would I do this again in the future? You bet!
-
i just read your post a little late but, / and dont ask why but im a traffic enforcement "expert"./ you dont have 24 hr s to produce reg, insur, or drivers licence. That was a courtesy from previous years . the rcmp was good to just give ya a fail to produce ticket sometimes its a liability issue if he doesn,t f.t.p. tickets are different than a no insurance ticket which is mandatory court and 2500$ fine with a 375$ victim of crime surcharge for a total of 2875$ yeah big time hurt.A red light or stop sign is 287 bucks and I think 3 demerits ,ftp tickets have none. if I get a ticket I go to court, see the first appearance clerk if its a yellow ticket copy and try to plea bargain aka make a deal- reduction etc The courts are prety good,they are too busy to run everything as a trial,my best advice if you get pulled over,don,t be a goof get mad if ya want but dont direct it at the officer. Yeah I know some of the officers are jerks sometimes but they are under stress to. If your unlucky enough to get 2 or more tickets sometimes the officer has to,i saw a guy get 8 same thing chill and go to court make some deals. the cop gets to go home w/o getting on the stand, the crown prosecutor gets some convictions, you save money and /or some demerits-points and u can ask for time to pay. win win win usually 30 days is minimum . also the officer has to be there to testify even for a ftp ticket if hes not, it could be withdrawn or if hes been hurt the night before or has another good reason he cant be there it could be adjourned to a future date . a pain, but hey you can ask for one too if your ma just died or your kids sick Hope this helps all you out there and yes i dont like mud flap tickets i think they are about as important as not having a lic plate light not really big time crime ;D ;D