Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: TwoFeetDeep on January 08, 2015, 11:13:20 PM
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I really want to do a diesel conversion. My 04 Jeep TJ Rubicon 4.0 has about 290k kms on it and its got a bit of a tick. I could pull it and stroke it (no idea of cost) or I was thinking that I could drop in a diesel. The 4BT sounds like its hard to find and a bit heavy for the stock set up. Then there is the VW Diesel ...and that is under powered. I dunno what to do. I could send the motor away and stroke it but am curious on price. That or if I can find an iline 6 with super low km's then I might just pop a new one in. Anyone got any low km 4.0's out there. Be nice to put a new odometer to match the motor too!
Input please
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I've also thought about a diesel engine swap in my TJ. The VW TDI is a popular option in the Samurai but I've never seen one in a TJ. I'm not sure (personally) about a 4BT swap. IMHO the difference in power isn't worth the sacrifice in extra weight and all the work.
Stock 4 liter = 190hp 235ft/lbs
4BT = 105hp 265ft/lbs
Although a Cummins powered Jeep would be totaly bad a$$!
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I haven't yet heard of a 4.0 that doesn't have a tick ;D
290,000km? You are just getting it broken in. Jensen's cousins XJ is bound to be at 600k by now.
Are you doing this work yourself? Paying someone to do it? It takes a lot of work and knowledge to swap in a new drivetrain into your jeep, and at that, you still have a used engine. Strokers are nice, but most require premium fuel and are again, not cheap.
What is your reasoning behind an engine swap? More power? Better fuel efficiency? Neat factor?
And don't forget about the liberty 2.8 deisel.
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There is huge aftermarket support for TJs. I would look thru advance adapters website and see what grabs your attention. Lots of V8 options as well.
That new V8 Cummins they are putting in the Nissan would be pretty cool.
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What about these guys? http://www.cotybuilt.com/hardware.html
50 pounds lighter then the four cylinder. About same power band as the four liter. Gets up to 35 mpg on the highway and they are from the Vancouver area.
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I really want to do a diesel conversion. My 04 Jeep TJ Rubicon 4.0 has about 290k kms on it and its got a bit of a tick. I could pull it and stroke it (no idea of cost) or I was thinking that I could drop in a diesel. The 4BT sounds like its hard to find and a bit heavy for the stock set up. Then there is the VW Diesel ...and that is under powered. I dunno what to do. I could send the motor away and stroke it but am curious on price. That or if I can find an iline 6 with super low km's then I might just pop a new one in. Anyone got any low km 4.0's out there. Be nice to put a new odometer to match the motor too!
Input please
If it isn't ticking that's the time to get worried LOL.
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Run some Rotella diesel oil that will quiet her up
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Run some Rotella diesel oil that will quiet her up
The stuff with the Zinc in it?
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Kevin was by Friday and the ol'DD was doing good
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The stuff with the Zinc in it?
You don't need zinc. just belt dressing.
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These guys are the simplest and one of the most afordable options.
This and a set of gears and you wouldnt recognize your rubicon.
https://www.golenengineservice.com/engines/jeep/4-6270hp-jeep-long-block
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at some point you'll regret punting your 4L
offroad -
dont see any advantage of a diesel, tj pointing
up on a "slick" hill 4.0L - low range - tires aired
down - locked and all you can do is spin the tires,
your not going up cause vehicle is too light, there
is not enough downward pressure [weight] to compact
earth below your wheels so you spin on it ..
what would make a difference in above scenario is a
300hp chevy V8 and taking a run or two at it
maybe a diesel with superlow torque in moab be good
but not here
resell -
fab'ing in a foreign eng will co$t you and
if you decide to sell later it might be turn
off to most potential buyers
fuel econommy -
whats the price of diesel these days, and who
cares about fuel economy
keep the 4L, once its about to go on life support
then mod it and u be better off on all things that
matter in my opinion
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offroad -
dont see any advantage of a diesel, tj pointing
up on a "slick" hill 4.0L - low range - tires aired
down - locked and all you can do is spin the tires,
your not going up cause vehicle is too light, there
is not enough downward pressure [weight] to compact
earth below your wheels so you spin on it ..
lol, more weight = harder to climb. Not easier.
Your logic is backwards.
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you could be right, i am equating traction to friction , friction being the force
that pushes two objects together [ weight of jeep being 1, greasy hill being 2 ]
if i have the power to go up the greasy hill but all 4 wheels locked just spin then I am still
thinking I don't have enough friction.
consider if i put a tire chain in my example, i believe i'd have better chance crawling
up the hill as chain reduces the contact surface the tire had but increases the
friction cause the downward force is now the small chain cross link.
obviously more weight only works if engine power/weight ratio remains good, 4L in
20,000 jeep wouldn't move, don't think the diesel will do any better
the tires we put on our little jeeps are often too stiff ,
a single 33" mud tire [like bfg] can hold up around 2500lbs safely, its made for the corner of
a 4500 lb pickup, my yj weighs 2900 lbs so 1 tire could probably hold its entire weight
up , even with single digit air in them they got alot of sidewall - like a balloon
something to think about else we might need someone to do the math lol
http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/friction_equation.htm
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Mmmmm Bill is correct here, lighter is better than heavier... Do you have your calculations warped?
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Your example may work if you are on a level surface and the vehicle weight increases surface contact footprint, which is why a narrower tire on ice works better. However when you start to try climbing things that weight holds you back like a fat guy trying to climb up an icy sidewalk. Same with snow, a narrower tire on a heavy vehicle works well on snow that isn't too deep, once the snow deep enough a lighter vehicle on fat tires with a light throttle does better.
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... that weight holds you back like a fat guy trying to climb up an icy sidewalk. ...
i am that fat guy ;)
fair enough, will give it some thought always willing to learn.
on the diesel my last words of wisdom - here goes:
am average home garage capable dude, i mod'ed my yj - some work
i did and some things had the more capable do, pretty happy with
the outcome - prior to that learned the hard way [mostly cars] if you want a
custom vehicle expect lots issues [quirks] and if your not above
average shadetree dude you better have deep pockets.
one thing that was important too me is what's things going to look
like down the road, can i still get the wire harness/computer i need
for custom eng [or any] swap in 3 yrs, will my gauge's work, does it
push my tranny back so i have to cut the floor and shorten driveshaft$,
alot of these trending swaps especially if your relying on kit can be
discontinued short lifespan or rare
junk yard parts might leave you with big problem.
4L works - you can get parts for it in smalltown backwater north america,
foreign swaps like a diesel I say only do it if you got the talent to keep it
running or ca$h to throw at it else make a list of pro's and con's , and consider what
your return on investment will be [ before anyone says it no I am not an
accountant 8) ]
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If you have ever wheeled with a suzuki, or watched a rock crawling competion the weight versus traction discussion is a non starter. Its just blaringly obvious less weight performs better.
To address your tire comments, that is why we air down when we wheel.
You need a relatively strong, heavy tire when wheeling for a few reasons. First of all, jeeps are not as light as people think. A built jeep YJ or TJ on 33's or 35's commonly tips the scales between 4100 and 4800lbs depending on how they are set up.
There are times offroad where you can get most of the vehicle weight on 2, or rarely even 1 tire. You want something strong enough to take that random abuse.
How you make up for the stiff sidewall traction wise is by airing down.
A C rated tire on a wrangler will flex really well on mid weight wrangler anywhere between 8-15lbs. Depending.
D rated, and E rated tires have to be aired considerably lower to perform as well, but when they are aired down accordingly, they will run right beside the C rateds for traction. Most D's are ran between 8-10 pounds.
Most E's never run more than 5 pounds on the trail.
Of course, when you use ultra low pressures, you want to have beadlocks.
A lot of people use small scale accurate gauges to measure this type of stuff.
What I have leaned over the years is that if you watch your sidewall as you air down, it will tell you where it needs to be. On even ground, you pull air until the sidewall starts to bulge. You'll find doing that you end up with the numbers above every time anyways.
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Most informative, sir!