Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Bnine on October 12, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
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Thought I'd share another mod I did recently. Before installing gears and arb's into my wifes jeep, I wanted to think of a method to run them that didnt involve any electrical, or solenoids.
Since this is on Denise's jeep, and while my skills with electrical are shady at best, hers are just as bad if not worse.
So, I wanted something that was simple, so she could easily trouble shoot, or repair it on her own.
This is what I came up with.
Here's the switches we used. They are 20$ at kenworth, the metal flick switch ones are 12$. Wolf359 tipped me off on where to get them.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/xbninex/Spyder/DSC02860.jpg)
Here is the whole system. I built a sheet metal box and attached it to her tuffy center console. The white gauge measures the pressure her OBA system is running at, in the tank, before the lockers.
The black two needle gauge registers the regulated pressure of each locker when they are engaged. This is nice, as you always know what pressure your ARB is running at.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/xbninex/Spyder/DSC02857.jpg)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/xbninex/Spyder/DSC02854.jpg)
Close up of the dual needle guage.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/xbninex/Spyder/DSC02856.jpg)
Front locker engaged, with the appropiate needle reading the locker pressure.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/xbninex/Spyder/DSC02858.jpg)
I converted all the air lines to a common size 1/4". ARB supplies their kits with 5mm line and fittings, making replacement stuff a bit more rare and expensive.
I did all the fittings using press in, like the one beside the switch in the first picture. Even the ones going into the diff housings.
For spare parts all Denise carries is a spare length of hose, a spare switch, and two press in couplers for line splicing.
It doesnt get much simpler then this. Just one more option for anyone who has, or plans on ARB's.
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That's pretty cool Bill, do you know if the air switches are available in momentary instead of constant on/off?
Vince
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Im not sure Vince.
Do you mean to charge it up, then lock it off?
As far as I know, those ones are just on/off with a self bleed.
I thought of doing the setup with a supply valve, and a bleed valve. You could lock it out with that method, but I found that route to be to much work after finding the switches.
That reminds me, since you are here. Are you going to the meeting tonight? I have a shiny new spill kit I've been totting around with your name on it.
If not, I'll run it over to you this weekend.
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I suspect there are momentary air switches available. But then there would be a need for another switch for venting. Or use the same momentary switch for releasing the pressure. But obviously the pressure before the switch would need to be less than what is after the switch.
In either case, somewhere there needs to be a relief valve/switch to release the pressure on the arb, to cause it to disengage.
compressor->airtank->airtools & locker(s)
So somewhere after the tank, and before the locker are the switches.
Based on the photo, those are a simple two-way valve. So also between the tank and the locker needs to be a release valve. Unless those fancy toggle switches are a three-way, then when the toggle is put back to "off" then the pressure is released, or they self bleed when moved to off. Or the knob is a bleeder of sorts.
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Im not sure Vince.
Do you mean to charge it up, then lock it off?
As far as I know, those ones are just on/off with a self bleed.
I thought of doing the setup with a supply valve, and a bleed valve. You could lock it out with that method, but I found that route to be to much work after finding the switches.
That reminds me, since you are here. Are you going to the meeting tonight? I have a shiny new spill kit I've been totting around with your name on it.
If not, I'll run it over to you this weekend.
I'm looking for an air valve to run an airhorn, so constant on would be a problem:shock: So I just want to control air flow while the button/lever is pressed.
I won't be able to make ther meeting tonight, will you be at the CJA meeting next week? I could pick it up then.
Vince
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Based on the photo, those are a simple two-way valve. So also between the tank and the locker needs to be a release valve. Unless those fancy toggle switches are a three-way, then when the toggle is put back to "off" then the pressure is released, or they self bleed when moved to off. Or the knob is a bleeder of sorts.
Exactly
There is a tiny hole in the black thread portion of the switch that automatically bleeds when the switch is in the off position.
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I'm looking for an air valve to run an airhorn, so constant on would be a problem:shock: So I just want to control air flow while the button/lever is pressed.
I won't be able to make ther meeting tonight, will you be at the CJA meeting next week? I could pick it up then.
Vince
CJA meeting sounds good Vince.
Im betting if you stop by KW, they might have something that works. I think they do have the same style switch that self returns to the off position. That would probably be ideal for what you are after.
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Perfect setup then, no need for a separate bleeder. A fully self contained system. Me likey!
Though Bill could have gone to Swagelok fittings and stainless tube for his setup, it would be way overkill and a fair bit pricier. But capable of many more psi than what is needed, plus the need to never touch it again. And it would make the removal of the consumables (switches and locker) extremely easy.
A bit of a hijack, but this is what I'm planning on doing when I relocate my little Rubicon compressors to the engine bay, stainless hard tube from the pump to the frame, then to each axle, then a braided hose to the diff. All Swagelok, all pricey if sourced externally, fortunatly I'm in an industry where these fittings are available like candy. The only expense would be a lenght of tube, and the braided hoses. The compressor would run a little longer as the inner diameter of the tube and hoses is a bit larger than the cheap, plastic stock fittings and tube. But opens the possibility for onboard air to power the lockers. Not to mention a regulator to knock down around 100psi to the less than 10psi needed for the Rubicon lockers.
Nicely done Bill! Not to get rid of the open and mud-foulable electric starter and put in a sealed air starter! Weeeeee-Vrooom!
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Thanks Chris. Swages were my original idea when I was going to do valves.
I have to recommend agaisnt stainless for flex lines though. They move your weak link to your bulkhead fittings, which are a lot tougher to repair then a plastic line.
Unless you mean to incorperate something in the system to address that.
Speaking of swageloc, can you get me a deal on ball valves to my linelocks? :D :D :D
Oh yeah, here's the part number I need. SS43GF4
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Speaking of swageloc, can you get me a deal on ball valves to my linelocks?
Whoa, thats a bling bling valve, which orientation do you want, straight thru, or 90? The locking handle, or the spring-return handle, or normal?
Really, I'm sure a MUCH better deal pricewise could be obtained at a plumbing store, you can get what orientation and handle type you want, likely in a brass valve (or I'm sure in steel, brass, or even aluminium or SS), at the 1/4" FNPT that you need. Then the swage fitting would be threaded in and you are done. You don't need teftlon tape, just a tube of Swagelok 567 lube/sealant. Put it on the male threads and turn it into the FNPT valve.
Since I'm not a dealer, I can't sign into their website to get pricing, and I've never used/seen one of those valve for the instrument lines on the skids I've built. Its either been a 1/2" ball, and then needle valves after that once its been swedged down to the 1/4".
I'm sure a 1/4" SS valve like that will cost above $50 per, a 1/4" needle will be like $15 in brass or steel, SS will be round $25. As for 1/4" ball valves in brass, I don't know. I'm not sure a 1/4" ball valve is standard in plumbing or gasfitting. I know 1/2" is tho.
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They are about 90$. I can log in.
Problem with needle valves is the amount of turns. You sit there and twist twist twist. Where as the ball valve is 1/4 turn, and the handle orientation indicates open or closed.
Much cleaner and more efficient for brake use.
A microlok line lock set up runs into the several hundred dollar range, and they are notorious for bleeding back, not to mention complicated systems. So 100$ to do a stainless swage that will probably outlast our jeeps is ok in my books.
I'll get around to it one of these days.
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Yeah for your application a needle valve would be a pain. $90 per, thats pretty expensive, but they are Swagelok brand and SS.
I would try a plumbing store first, the valve would be cheaper, and if its rated for gas then it can't leak. Or shouldn't. A brass valve with a teflon seat and SS ball would work just as good, but you could paint it to give it the bling-bling SS look :P
But a ball valve at 1/4" FNPT rated for WOG (Water, Oil, Gas) since I comprehend that you are using it for cutting brakes will have brake fluid in it. Might need to get one with a less corrosive seat/packing around the ball. Not sure how brake fluid and teflon play together.
Unless you are just putting air thru it, then good old G rated would be just fine. And a $10 brass valve, or so for a locking or spring return handle.
$10, replaceable at any decent plumbing/hardware store, or a $90 available only thru SL, and likely a much longer lasting valve. Its a toss up.
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Yeah, thats the hard part, finding those demensions in a cheaper non SL.
Im not in a hurry, so if something else grabs my eye, I'll look at that too.
Definately for brakes, so anything that would be acceptable in a hydraulic application will do.
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You can find a huge variety at Clippard: http://www.clippard.com/establish_locale.asp?strRedirect=/store/Default.asp
This is the smallest, simplest. http://www.clippard.com/store/display_details.asp?sku=TV-3S#
(http://www.clippard.com/images/products/pictures/TV-3S.jpg)
Your setup looks nice. The dual needle gauge is a great idea.
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[I'm looking for an air valve to run an airhorn, so constant on would be a problem:shock: So I just want to control air flow while the button/lever is pressed.
I won't be able to make ther meeting tonight, will you be at the CJA meeting next week? I could pick it up then.
Vince[/quote]
Princess Auto has those. I belive they were around 35 bucks. It works good in my jeep