Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: Yellow RUBI on February 11, 2007, 10:44:05 AM
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Will this pass as a frame mounted tow hook? I moved them forword so as to be unobstucted by the fairlead mount.
(http://members.shaw.ca/StormFX/images/NetPics/Tow%20Hook%201.jpg)
The winch mount is 1/4" plate and welded to 3/8"x1 1/2" risers, so it'll clear the boltheads holding the winch down.
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What grade of bolts did you use? Also it would be nice to see a little bit wider view for a picture to get the overall affect
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The Nuts & bolts are gr8
Here are a few more pics.
(http://members.shaw.ca/StormFX/images/NetPics/IMAGE_00063.jpg)
(http://members.shaw.ca/StormFX/images/NetPics/293-640x.jpg)
(http://members.shaw.ca/StormFX/images/NetPics/294-640x.jpg)
(http://members.shaw.ca/StormFX/images/NetPics/296-640x.jpg)
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None of my business but as an outsider I think you're asking the CJA executive to go out on a bit of a limb with this. I wouldn't want to be the person to tell you that it's safe just before it actually does let loose and kills somebody.
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I agree, this is my personal opinion here. No one on the Exec is an engineer, well a real engineer anyways.
While I'm no engineer (this is my opinion), I would personally move the tow hook to the same bolts that hold the winch plate down to the frame.
Make sure they are grade8, and even double nut em on the bottom if possible.
Also that winch sits pretty far forward. Really far forward. Now if you're winching there will be up/down stresses on the winch plate. Especially if the front end of the rig is up, and the winch is trying to pull it down. That creates shearing forces on the bolts that hold the winch to the plate. As well as the plate to the frame. An 80lb flying winch is something nobody wants to see! (That goes for heli-coil inserts or anything that changes the mating of the threads with the bolt-up hardware)
I would seriously look at trying to get the winch a little further back towards the grill. You have the stock swaybar there (so a few inches can be used), relocating the stock swaybar under the frame would make it easier. Or upgrade to the Currie Anti-Rock unit. $$ I know.
If you need to, put more bolts thru the plate to the frame, even if you need to drill a hole in each side framerail.(Engineer want to comment on that?)
That looks like a mega big winch, with some rusty cable too. Time for a respool of the cable and check for kinks, rust, etc.
You asked! :roll:
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Yes I did ask, & the reason I asked is that trail ride/club requirements state frame mounted tow points. Since I plan on joining the club in the future I thought I would ask.
As for the mounting of the winch I agree it sits forword the winch plate is actually built to and beyond superwinch specs from thier web site.
I know its difficult to see in these pics but there is a third bolt going through the winchplate at the rear to the front swaybar mount. All the bolts are grade 10 holding the winchplate to the jeep and grade 8 holding the winch to the plate.
The bolts holding the winchplate down thread directly into the frame so theres no way to "double nut" them.
I felt moving the hooks forword was preferable to having bolts 2" long before they caught a thread in the frame.
I would like to see an pics of how else to mount a winch on the factory bumper if any one wants to post them.
The cable is rusty and does in deed need a respooling, but from what I've seen of it, theres no kinks or broken strands in it.
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I'm on the Exec. I'm not going to make that call. The rules clearly state front and rear tow hooks. Ultimately it is the vehicles owner that takes responsabilty for the condition of his/her jeep.
I can't see how strong your winch is, 9000lb is common so let's assume that. If you have to use a snatch block on a tree back to that tow point. You could effectivly have 18,000 lbs pulling on that tow point. If it breaks you could kill or severly injure someone.
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I'm on the Exec. I'm not going to make that call. The rules clearly state front and rear tow hooks. Ultimately it is the vehicles owner that takes responsabilty for the condition of his/her jeep.
X2
If u move the fog lights out a bit switch the tow hooks side to side and use longer grade 8 bolts with a proper hex head and blot throug the tow hook and winch plate to the frame
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Those nuts holding the tow hooks do not look like grade 8. Chris would be able to tell better but grade 8 hardware is usually coated is looks goldish, those nuts are not.
Also using a snatch block does increase the pulling power but each line will still only see 1/2 of the max. If pulling 18,000 lbs, each segment of the cable will only see 9,000 lbs
Go buy a universal mounting plate from PA and it will solve your problems
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Thanks for the input!
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Take a look at Ian's, Blair's, Tyler's Jeeps in the members rig section as they all have the stock bumper and a winch mount. From the looks of it Tyler has the universal mount.
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I'm on the Exec. I'm not going to make that call. The rules clearly state front and rear tow hooks. Ultimately it is the vehicles owner that takes responsabilty for the condition of his/her jeep.
I can't see how strong your winch is, 9000lb is common so let's assume that. If you have to use a snatch block on a tree back to that tow point. You could effectivly have 18,000 lbs pulling on that tow point. If it breaks you could kill or severly injure someone.
I agree...
One has to make sure that everything is solid bolted or welded on his/her Jeep. What we enjoy doing is extreme and can have extreme consequenses if it's not done right.
Be safe....
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If u move the fog lights out a bit switch the tow hooks side to side and use longer grade 8 bolts with a proper hex head and blot throug the tow hook and winch plate to the frame
Steve has posted the same fix I used to install my winch.
Changing the hooks left to right in the original holes should solve the clearance problem.
If you remove the plastic bumper end caps then the fog light will move over to one of the holes on the outside end of the bumper. Hope that works for you.
The winch looks good. Nice upgrade to your rig. More people should start with a winch first before going to a big lift.
Hope to see you out at a meeting or on a run soon.
Blair
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Also using a snatch block does increase the pulling power but each line will still only see 1/2 of the max. If pulling 18,000 lbs, each segment of the cable will only see 9,000 lbs
Next time we meet you will have to draw me a pic, and explain that to me. I am sure you are right, I just don't see it right now.
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cause it is on a pully
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ahem...engineer....
yeah, a winch line on a snatch block effectively doubles the force applied (conversation's sake...9 grand to 18 grand at the tow point) while keeping both cables at the orig. strength.
BlackYJ is 100% correct, you get a gold star :lol:
I wouldn't pull you out with those hooks...not even from the ditch on the side of the road (it's a tj...you never know)
should be double nutted grade 8 (or more), completley through the frame. put on TIGHTLY and loc-tite applied liberally. for 18 thou, i would think 1/2 inch or bigger should do well, as the shear strength (Ultimate Tensile Strength) is 150 ksi... that is, 150 thousand ppsi.
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i would think 1/2 inch or bigger should do well, as the shear strength (Ultimate Tensile Strength) is 150 ksi... that is, 150 thousand ppsi.
The UTS is 150 ksi but the shear strength is 17870 lbf or ~90 ksi for a 1/2 grade 8 bolt
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i would think 1/2 inch or bigger should do well, as the shear strength (Ultimate Tensile Strength) is 150 ksi... that is, 150 thousand ppsi.
The UTS is 150 ksi but the shear strength is 17870 lbf or ~90 ksi for a 1/2 grade 8 bolt
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missed that...hmm...guess that's why there's holes for 2 bolts on most tow-hooks :P :P
like i said, don't hold me to it.
welding engineer only
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You guys can talk grade 8, double nut, ksi, psi, tensile strength etc all you want but, at the end of the day, most low profile Warn winches are held on with (4) 3/8" grade 5 bolts fastened to a cast, white metal type material.
Has anyone ever seen a winch pulled off the plate? I'm sure there are a few cases of the winch body breaking but I bet those failures are due to a home-made mounting plate that is not designed to prevent flexing of the plate.
disclaimer: the ksi, psi, and any other si is over my head.
Vince
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disclaimer: the ksi, psi, and any other si is over my head.
Vince
Thats the point vince, to keep you unedumacted type out of our geek discussions 8) 8)
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disclaimer: the ksi, psi, and any other si is over my head.
Vince
Thats the point vince, to keep you unedumacted type out of our geek discussions 8) 8)
Don't pick on me just because I refer to grade 3 as my senior year, (which, by the way, was the best 7 years of my life :shock: )
Vince
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xDD i love that vinman...but seriously...
i think he should be thinking about re-locating that winch, and a lift and tires before the hooks.... or just put some 1 7/8 " beans on there and build a towbar, like i did...
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xDD i love that vinman...but seriously...
i think he should be thinking about re-locating that winch, and a lift and tires before the hooks.... or just put some 1 7/8 " beans on there and build a towbar, like i did...
Yes he needs to fix the hooks. It’s a requirement for a club run, Having safe tow points and communication on the trail is far more important than a lift. As I posted earlier changing the hooks left to right may give the clearance needed for the stock bolts to fit into the stock factory holes. Or get better nuts on the bolts. We can not tell from the photos. If you have time bring the rig out so someone can look at it we would be glad to help. PM me if you still need help.
Blair
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very nicely put blair
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Duct Tape and 1.5" self taping screws are the way to go.....
and Vince stop lying... It was the best 8 years ...not seven. :roll: