Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: 2grand4u on March 07, 2010, 07:36:09 PM
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can you do it without being dangerous
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Flat towing period is just lame. Might as well drive. All the same wear and tear anyways.
At least if you drive it, you can hear and feel driveline issues before anything bad happens. Flat towing you cant tell until something blows apart or a wheel falls off.
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yup trust me i know from experience i would have much rather been driving my jeep would have prevented this
(http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs446.snc3/25581_10150108976730468_690505467_11198586_2636102_n.jpg)
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Flat towing period is just lame. Might as well drive. All the same wear and tear anyways.
I agree, trailering a rig is always better, except when you flat tow you dont have to listen to the ridiculesly loud humming noise from my tires, Thats why I am going to give it a shot. Also due to the fact that I have no space to store a trailer.
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We already went thru this with you back in Oct.
No you can't safely flat tow your TJ with your ZJ, with or with out a spool it doesn't matter the ZJ just doesn't weigh enough. Obviously you aren't interested in our opinion on the matter so why are bothering asking. We'll just keep telling you the same thing. :P We could tell you the diff would blow up if flat towed with a spool and you would still do it.
Go back and read October's thread. This time think about it from a logical point of view and not from a cost point of view.
I swear if hear someone say they want to flat tow because they can't afford a trailer/tow dolly one more time I'll cyber slap them! Not having money to do it right doesn't justify doing it stupid.
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C'mon Ryan! What the heck?
You had this problem of posting multiple questions in the past. People took the time to answer your questions. You stated that you sometimes don't read your old posts. Lots of folks got mad at you for this. The offroad community is trying to help you. Just let them. Please think before you post . Most of what you ask is on the net anyway.
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he actually bought a 1/2 ton truck
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Better, but still not great. As I said I jack knifed my 3/4ton diesel 4X4 in the rainflat towing a CJ......
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Ryan:
Flat towing a rig is like towing a heavy trailer with no trailer brakes. This is something that makes guys that have a decade of trailering experience think twice. Until you've been pushed all over the road by a heavy trailer that's got serious issues, it's hard to understand just how wild a ride it can be.
For you (someone that has only a couple of years driving experience, let alone trailering experience) to flat tow a rig is an idea that just plain stinks. If you won't recpect the danger to your rig(s) and yourself, please respect the danger that you would pose to everyone else on the road.
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just out of curiousity, what mods have you done to a TJ to justify towing it?
i agree it'd be much nicer tow a rig out than not, but if you don't have a reliable tow rig, a trailer, or a place to stow said gadgets, where are you going to put them?
nothing will irk the parents more than you keeping 4 vehicles at their place. and renting space to keep them is costly too. unless you have access to way more money than i did at 18, why not just drive the TJ to the trail head, and park it and drive that next to new ZJ as a DD? a cool tail rig and reliable DD is a wicked combo. i'm still at that level; i'd LOVE TO buy a new truck and trailer. but no place to put it.......... and can't afford it.
i'm saying this becuase flat towing is just scary, and a waste of time.
just my .02
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i bought a truck to tow and put about 600 pounds of shizz in the back, and i flat tow because i cant afford the gas the 2.5 slams back on very short drives, have it pined in 4 th on the highway just to stay 90. i towed it this weekend and it towed great didn't burn hardly any gas in the tow rig and still have 3/4 tank in the tj.
i also break tested it at 50, came to a skidding stop on a dirt road and the truck didn't even start to jack knife
i was wondering if it would tow just as nice as it dose with a spool so i could weld it up (poor mans locker :-[)
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i bought a truck to tow and put about 600 pounds of shizz in the back, and i flat tow because i cant afford the gas the 2.5 slams back on very short drives, have it pined in 4 th on the highway just to stay 90. i towed it this weekend and it towed great didn't burn hardly any gas in the tow rig and still have 3/4 tank in the tj.
i also break tested it at 50, came to a skidding stop on a dirt road and the truck didn't even start to jack knife
i was wondering if it would tow just as nice as it dose with a spool so i could weld it up (poor mans locker :-[)
So if you're not going to listen to us anyways, why do you even bother to ask the questions?
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So if you're not going to listen to us anyways, why do you even bother to ask the questions?
what the hell, i have never asked a spool Q?, and i took advice on flat towing, my last flat tow Q? was if the grand would handle it and as some of you commented it wouldn't so i took action and bought a truck and put wight over the axle.
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i flat towed my TJ with a dodge hemi for 3 summers with not one problem ever...it's nice getting in a clean warm reliable truck after a long day
but i'm finished doing that...ordered a spool, gears etc...and now looking around in vulcan and high river a a 16' flat deck.
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what the hell, i have never asked a spool Q?, and i took advice on flat towing, my last flat tow Q? was if the grand would handle it and as some of you commented it wouldn't so i took action and bought a truck and put wight over the axle.
My point was not that you've asked spool questions before, but that you asked about flat towing a TJ. We told you that while it's possible, it's not really a good idea.
You essentailly responded by saying "well I put some shiz in my truck and tested the braking once on a dry surface from a moderate speed, so I'm not worried about what you guys say."
A 3500 pound TJ that develops a mind of it's own on a wet/snowy/icy road will put your half pound truck into the ditch faster than you can say "Whoops I hydrolocked my ZJ again."
A half ton will handle towing a TJ better than a ZJ would, but that still doesn't make it a good idea. Given the choice, I wouldn't tow a 3500 pound trailer behind a one ton if it didn't have brakes. I've spent a lot of time pulling a lot of trailers down a lot of crappy roads - I learned some of these things the hard way. If you dislike me and don't want to listen to me, then listen to Clay.
If you really want to tow a TJ, get a trailer with some brakes that work. That's what will make the difference between doing it safely and having a very expensive pile-up. Either that or borrow a Peterbilt. Then you can safely flat to a TJ. ;D
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i will be flat towing my CJ with my Ram 3/4 diesel.
The guy i bought it off flat towed it for 30,000 miles over the last 15 years.
meh ;)
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Behind an empty pickup or a motorhome...
Behind a motorhome you wouldnèt even notice it. I barely noticed my XJ behind my diesel truck with the camper on. Towed great. Camper off it was fine till that one day when I got caught in some heavy rain....
I actually have a tow bar for my ZJ in case of a break down so I can tow it back to camp without having to drag the Redneck Toy Hauler out to get it. Basically more occaional use, I am hoping the dually will stay better planted than the old truck did.
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It was a pickup Clay.
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It was a pickup Clay.
And how much experience driving did he have when he started towing it?
I dunno. I've thought about towing the Dragon behind the Dodge before....1 tonne 3500 CTD, and it worries me.
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Here ya go Ryan...
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=14844.0
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just outa curiousity ryan what mods did you do? what tire are you running now?
i bought a truck to tow and put about 600 pounds of shizz in the back, and i flat tow because i cant afford the gas the 2.5 slams back on very short drives, have it pined in 4 th on the highway just to stay 90. i towed it this weekend and it towed great didn't burn hardly any gas in the tow rig and still have 3/4 tank in the tj.
i also break tested it at 50, came to a skidding stop on a dirt road and the truck didn't even start to jack knife
i was wondering if it would tow just as nice as it dose with a spool so i could weld it up (poor mans locker :-[)
gonna play a devils advocate for you for just a few seconds. forget for 2 seconds that flat towing isn't a great idea.
first, is the jeep just annoying to drive to the trailhead? my YJ is loud, but goes ok so i drive it to the trail. no real need to tow, except for comfort.
second; to save 20/gas per wheeling trip, do you think its necessary to buy a second truck, register, insure it and maintain it, to save some coin? think how much you've put into the second truck. could it be used to possibly gear and lock the TJ? then you could drive it with less issues........
IMO, if ur gonna flat tow, might as well drive it. if you break something on the trail you still need to fix it before going home. at least with a trailer you can drive haul the broken jeep home. maybe that would be a good investment then as well.
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just outa curiousity ryan what mods did you do? what tire are you running now?
gonna play a devils advocate for you for just a few seconds. forget for 2 seconds that flat towing isn't a great idea.
first, is the jeep just annoying to drive to the trailhead? my YJ is loud, but goes ok so i drive it to the trail. no real need to tow, except for comfort.
second; to save 20/gas per wheeling trip, do you think its necessary to buy a second truck, register, insure it and maintain it, to save some coin? think how much you've put into the second truck. could it be used to possibly gear and lock the TJ? then you could drive it with less issues........
IMO, if ur gonna flat tow, might as well drive it. if you break something on the trail you still need to fix it before going home. at least with a trailer you can drive haul the broken jeep home. maybe that would be a good investment then as well.
the tj is the most unreliable thing i have ever owned, but if i tow it it is fine all day with no issues, soon as i hit the high way i find it works too had and starts to act up 4500rpm to 5000 can't be good for a 100 km both ways ether and as soon as i hit 5 th it bogs to a point it almost stalls, towing to me is very trouble free and it doesn't make me just wont to throw the jeep in the gargage and move on.
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the tj is the most unreliable thing i have ever owned, but if i tow it it is fine all day with no issues, soon as i hit the high way i find it works too had and starts to act up 4500rpm to 5000 can't be good for a 100 km both ways ether and as soon as i hit 5 th it bogs to a point it almost stalls, towing to me is very trouble free and it doesn't make me just wont to throw the jeep in the gargage and move on.
$400 I'll take it off your hands. Then you can wheel the grand and not worry about fixing this jeep, so it doesn't break down on you on the trails.
$400 is cheap life insurance to save you from a possible fatal situation.
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Dumb question, but what tire size and gear ratio are you running? 4500-5k rpm on the highway sounds odd. I know the 4 cyl can't help.
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$400 I'll take it off your hands. Then you can wheel the grand and not worry about fixing this jeep, so it doesn't break down on you on the trails.
$400 is cheap life insurance to save you from a possible fatal situation.
it's yours for 10 000 that what i would need to get to make any of my money back, if i can't get my money back I'll keep enjoying my truck and towing it
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Dumb question, but what tire size and gear ratio are you running? 4500-5k rpm on the highway sounds odd. I know the 4 cyl can't help.
Ryan.
what mods did you do? what tires are you running? what gears?
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Dumb question, but what tire size and gear ratio are you running? 4500-5k rpm on the highway sounds odd. I know the 4 cyl can't help.
33, 12.5 and stock 4 10s the truck blows me away when in 4 low like a little tank but any thing over 50 is just hell
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33, 12.5 and stock 4 10s the truck blows me away when in 4 low like a little tank but any thing over 50 is just hell
How fast are you pushing it on the highway to hit 5k in 4th?
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Ryan.
what mods did you do? what tires are you running? what gears?
rubi long arm, anti rock, race seat with 5 point harnesses, and a bunch of other little stuff mostly factory replace ment(like 2 rads :-[)
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it's yours for 10 000 that what i would need to get to make any of my money back, if i can't get my money back I'll keep enjoying my truck and towing it
$10000 and you can't get it to run correctly.
I think towing is the least of your issues. Fix it before it kills you, as I am assuming that if you are planning to tow it instead of fix issues with it, that there might be other items you are ignoring.
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How fast are you pushing it on the highway to hit 5k in 4th?
try my best to keep her 90, 110 on down hills and like 60 up the smallest of hills
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$10000 and you can't get it to run correctly.
I think towing is the least of your issues. Fix it before it kills you, as I am assuming that if you are planning to tow it instead of fix issues with it, that there might be other items you are ignoring.
I'll buy a box of beer and let you try and figure it out it is a mystery to any one i have mentioned it to including on here
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race seat with 5 point harnesses... that is what I call performance enhancing mods.
gears are gonna be your next mod... you just don't know it yet. That will help immensely.
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race seat with 5 point harnesses... that is what I call performance enhancing mods.
gears are gonna be your next mod... you just don't know it yet. That will help immensely.
re gear is defiantly what i am doing next, and the race seat are only because of my girl friend she rely wanted them so i said fine but I'm gettin the harnesses
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I'll buy a box of beer and let you try and figure it out it is a mystery to any one i have mentioned it to including on here
What EXACTLY is the issue with it?
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What EXACTLY is the issue with it?
once I'm moving on the high way after a couple K's it starts to stutter and then dies wait ten minutes if fires up and goes again I've changed the fuel filter. doesn't do this when in the bush go all day with 0 issue
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once I'm moving on the high way after a couple K's it starts to stutter and then dies wait ten minutes if fires up and goes again I've changed the fuel filter. doesn't do this when in the bush go all day with 0 issue
Pinched fuel line?
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once I'm moving on the high way after a couple K's it starts to stutter and then dies wait ten minutes if fires up and goes again I've changed the fuel filter. doesn't do this when in the bush go all day with 0 issue
So only higher rpms?
Have you changed the cps or O2 sensors? Throwing any codes?
And yeah....4.56's will be your friend.
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I say TPS.... exact thing happened to me... all good in the bush, highway it started misbehavin'.
Or did you change the TPS?
Did you put an OBD reader on it yet?
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Sputtering? Backfire? More accelerator makes it worse?
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So only higher rpms?
Have you changed the cps or O2 sensors? Throwing any codes?
And yeah....4.56's will be your friend.
4 88 are going to be my friend ;D and it doesn't through any codes but after driving for a little the check engine light comes on so obviously they is a problem some were
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I say TPS.... exact thing happened to me... all good in the bush, highway it started misbehavin'.
Or did you change the TPS?
Did you put an OBD reader on it yet?
i think it is too but havent got to changing it yet and it sputters then dies
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if the check engine light comes on.... it is in the computer. put an OBD on it.
I swear we went over this a while ago.
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yep, we did.
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=16113.0
I am done with this.
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Frick Ryan....you talk like you know lots about jeeps but it's not throwing codes...with the engine light on? WT....?
Keith's, a case of 24. Check the codes and toss a frickin sensor in there.
On second though, forget it....take the money for the beer and throw it towards a bloody sensor. ::)
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And how much experience driving did he have when he started towing it?
I dunno. I've thought about towing the Dragon behind the Dodge before....1 tonne 3500 CTD, and it worries me.
i do not know...i guess 30,000 miles :D
i do not know 2grand4u, but i gather from the comments that he is a new driver and very inexperienced?
No matter what jeep i owned, i ALWAYS had another vehicle to drive while my jeeps spent time in many shops over the years. So, i think owning another vehicle is a 'bare' necessity when driving your dd jeep.
i also know someone that spent 2 years flat towing his cherokee behind his Chev Avalanche.
i know someone else that flat towed his WOLF359 cruiser on 44's behind his H1 Hummer.
So, it seems that all over North America people flat tow their toys. i would like to believe that if i drive like a citizen, than i will be fine flat towing a jeep behind my longbox Ram.
IF i had an area to store a flatdeck trailer, trhan i would probably own one. But i think it is unfair of you guys to jump down 2grand4u's throat expecting him to buy a trailer. He asked about towing with his Grand and rightfully was told it was a bad idea. He now gets a truck and still is being given grief.
So, what really is the issue? He is a known CRAPPY driver?
And everyday, something could happen that puts you in harms way. With or without a jeep attached to you, the outcome could be bad. i mean do you really want to swerve really quickly on a modified jeep of any brand? The outcome would not be nice.
Now, i do own a very good tow dolly that was custom made. Maybe after i experience a flat tow, i can decide if the effort of getting the dolly out of my garage is worth it.
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We kinda pulled Ryan off topic with the underlying engine issues, hopefully you can figure it out so you don't have to tow it.
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try my best to keep her 90, 110 on down hills and like 60 up the smallest of hills
is that your guesstimate on how fast your going? or is that what the speedo reads? 90km/hr with those tires will be more like 110.
also, if you can get that rig down here to the good ole' SW of Calgary, drop by. i will happily volunteer my neighbours OBD setup to read your jeeps mind. if that computer is angry at you, or your new tires, we can find it.
bring beer.
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is that your guesstimate on how fast your going? or is that what the speedo reads? 90km/hr with those tires will be more like 110.
When I ran my angry squirrels with 31s and 4.10s the speedo was bang on, and when I ran 33s it was about by about 10%.
Also, I drove several times on the highway with heavy SSRs, 4.10s, and the 4 angry squirrels, it is not great but very doable, so I would get the engine running properly. I daily drove my jeep up until 3 years when I finally got a truck. It setup right and maintain, a jeep on 31s or 33s can be a daily driver and a very capable offroader.