Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Land Issues, Trail Projects & Trail Stewardship => Topic started by: Hi Lo Silver on March 27, 2010, 05:35:11 PM
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I'm not sure when you folks took your last trip down Lost Knife to Meadow Creek but here's the new look with lots of views along the way.
This area stretches from the north bridge on Lost Knife that you guys did a few years back right to south of the bridge crossing Meadow Creek that you also replaced not too long ago.
There's a big logging bridge now in place that feeds into thier loading area. I stopped taking pictures out of disgust. Not due to the logging because Alberta survives on our industry, but due to 60 years of Sustainable trails being abolished due to the impact we've made over the many years. I passed this area every Saturday for the hunting season till the end of Oct. and none fo this had been done till after that. Not bad for 4 months of work eh?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gun/Meadow%20Creek%20Lost%20Knife/2010_0327March27DayRun0001.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gun/Meadow%20Creek%20Lost%20Knife/2010_0327March27DayRun0004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gun/Meadow%20Creek%20Lost%20Knife/2010_0327March27DayRun0010.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gun/Meadow%20Creek%20Lost%20Knife/2010_0327March27DayRun0008-1.jpg)
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Post up some pics Gunther.
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Pictures are up. You caught me right between cutting and pasting the links on the thread. :)
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Nice.
We went down Lost Knife a few weeks ago, and were amazed. I could hardly believe how much timber they had piled up. A wee bit disheartening.
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thats realy shity
and us driving through acouple streams is bad ???
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we went through there on the cheese slider run and a logging road was just being built but was a couple of miles from the meadow at that point so all this distruction has taken place in the last month
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So let me get this straight. They shut down general usage to the area what... 4 years ago? Citing environmental impact of different user groups. Causing negative impact to the sensitive ecosystem was simply unacceptable by the SRD.
Now, 5 years later they grant us the privilege to venture back into these sensitive ecosystems only to find out that they've been clear cut.
I'm guessing they could expropriate the resources with all the pesky vehicular 4x4 users enjoying the area. This shhhhtufff pisses me off.
/rant
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So let me get this straight. They shut down general usage to the area what... 4 years ago? Citing environmental impact of different user groups. Causing negative impact to the sensitive ecosystem was simply unacceptable by the SRD.
Now, 5 years later they grant us the privilege to venture back into these sensitive ecosystems only to find out that they've been clear cut.
I'm guessing they could expropriate the resources with all the pesky vehicular 4x4 users enjoying the area. This shhhhtufff pisses me off.
/rant
about sums it up.
we were there in the begining of march. completely clear cut. had lots of time to look at it while figuring out trevs clunk.
it was disgusting; there are/were complete piles of logs; huge piles, and swaths of stuff clear cut. huge landmovers/machinery sitting there............... but your 4x4 is devastating to the environment.......
Gunther, your pics barely do justice to the destruction out there hey?
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I saw this coming when they shut down the trails. I think the company is called Spray Lake sawmills. They have some sort of Forestry Management Agreement for that whole area. I think their Agreement goes from the 1A highway all the way to Mountain Air. Look around this site for more info. http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/ForestManagement/ForestTenure/ForestManagementAgreements/Default.aspx
Neil.
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and funny how clear cutting got a lot more aggressive in McClean during the same time.
I think in political terms, it is called a snowjob. Have the enviros fighting against the petrolheads and get everyone fighting amongst themselves. During the hype shut down the area and sell it off tree by tree.
F-ing BS.
It's a shame we didn't have an industry backed lobby that could leverage a tax base to "influence" governance decisions over the Ghost fluz.
The government will receive more income from one single tree than they would from all the user groups combined.
Too bad they didn't even consider a user fee for the area. At least that would be a steady income stream. Now they've gotta wait 20 years for the resource to renew before they can sell it off again.
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Please don't post anymore pics Gunther! That absolutely makes me sick to see. I'm glad I have a lot of pics of that area from the early 90's to remind me of what it used to look like. Absolutely disgusting...
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easy answer...
Trees = Money to the government...
4X4s = groups to divert the attention away from the clear cutting companies that uses the same area.
It's all about the moooola$ brothers...
Do you think the government really cares about the environment? .... LOL ::)
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Thanks Gunther for the heads up.. I have not been there for a while since my Jeep is getting some lovin' and can't move much.
Can't say much about the clear cutting... Last time I checked I bought a house and built a garage all in wood... I guess I support the clear cutting companies also.
It's still ugly to see the devastation it does. I remember wheeling you Gunther on one of my favorite trail with and you were pointing at your favorite moose hunting spot that was gone. It was not easy to see destruction them and it's still very ugly today.
I can't get used to that crap :(. makes me sad
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Whats even worse is , this is spring break up time when the ground is soft and the riparian vegetation is sensitive and the heavy machinery is hauling the logs out.
This is absolute HYPOCROSY SRD
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Andy ... HYPOCROSY is the nature of politics. LOL... have you met an honest politician? that are all 2 faced liers and they run the country. SAD
I believe SRD just does that they are told buy the head honchos in the government... the hypocrites. :-[
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Don't misunderstand my post and pictures. Clear cutting is probably the cheapest way to harvest lumber for the many products they use wood for. Large old growth forests doesn't cover the full need. Unless we're prepared to pay premium price for our wood products if they select lumber then clear cut will be the way they log for years. My entire livlihood depends on lumbering industry for material so I'm not totally againsnt this practise, as ugly as it may look.
But how dare they close our trails and brain wash the people who don't have a clue about the back country that we, the 4x4 users are the ones creating all the environmental impact and damage with our using a system that's been around for 60 or better years. If they were into 4x4's they would find a way to keep 4x4 trails open. As it is though, more of our government leaders are into other motorized, so coincidently that's the stake holder that gets the trails.
By the way, to fill you in a bit more. At that second bridge on the north end of Lost Knife trail is where they intersected one of our 4 designated summer trails and have now made part of the Lost Knife Trail part of thier logging road.
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Have they started cutting? I know that the night of my accident they were unloading skidders and feller/bunchers off of tractor trailers and moving them to behind a stand of trees and covering them with netting
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've probably missed page one of this thread. ;)
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See all those bare spots (lack of trees) on the hills Fras... that's what we call "cutting".
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just a little hair cut and trim to help get rid of the pine beetle.
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Well said Gunther. I was really suprised by the new "highway" after the second bridge. I knew that they were going to cut but...
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Yeah....I saw all this when I was ATV'ing few weekends ago.
Made me sick... :-\
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Stuff like this has been happening on the west coast for years, they just gate up off road areas so no one can see the devastation. It will grow back...but tread lightly my butt...how can they complain of some off road wear to the terrain when they hand out permits to do that?
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i just think its ratarded the we have to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo careful when 5 years later this happens
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I am back from my first ever stint up working in the oil sands north of Fort Mac. Some of you may know, I am an environmental consultant in the patch, which means that I oversee the reclamation of the areas after leases have been built and the wells drilled, amongst other things.
The project I worked on this year produced solid results, meaning there is a high probability the area will be mined. That being said, until the company I was working for decides to mine it, they must leave it the way it was, save for the trees that were cut to make room for the lease roads and the leases themselves.
The idea behind this is simple. If the resource company changes there mind/sells the mineral rights/doesnt go ahead for whatever reason, the overall impact is negligible.
All that being said, it isnt fair to lay blame at the feet of a community doing its best to observe the rules, especially when there are hidden agendas.
Someone should take their pictures of before and after, and any legitimate correspondence (ie letters/emails etc) to the SUN or the Herald, and get an article wrote. Smokescreens are bullshit.
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Well, i think we should continue doing projects for SRD out in Waiporous...that sounds like a great plan ::)
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ya sounds good we mine as well just pave our trails and make them 4 lanes wide that shouldnt impact much
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Nice to see all that hard work that has been done was done realistically for nothing, the SRD are just pawns same as the 4x4 community.
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I think somone should hunt down the several reporters who wrote in favour of closing there areas due to environmental concerns a few years back, and ask them if they would do a story on this?
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I think somone should hunt down the several reporters who wrote in favour of closing there areas due to environmental concerns a few years back, and ask them if they would do a story on this?
Word!
Here is a picture of Leisure Creek. Actually I think it is right near where Lost Knife and Leisure creek intersect.
*edit... this dates back to 2006. Proper spelling is aprantly Lesiure.... not Leisure.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e337/ApexTJCAN/Jeep/LesiurePana.jpg)
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so now that this area has been clear cut are there any plans for the cja to do a tree planting work project? have we ever done tree planting before?
we cant change what happened but we can still make a difference! and i get that tree planting is not really trail maintanence but it might help our karma!
just my 2 cents.
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When I asked about tree planting a few years ago it seems it does not happen as much as it use to anymore. If they leave enough or the small material on the ground then it comes back from the seeds left behind. I am hoping we can find some new trail opportunities out of the trails left from the cutting. I would rather spend some time and build some obstacles into the trails they left behind to make them fun and try to open them up. I want to go out and have a good look at what’s left behind for opportunities later this month. Tree planitng is good work but I don't know if they have any plans to replant or just let it come back naturaly.
I was told by ASRD that this cut was done partly for Pine Beetle infestation.
We should have a busy year of projects ahead.
Need to finish the MacLean bypass trail work we started last year.
The Land Cruisers appear to be moving ahead with there bridge build and will need help.
A bridge and some work at McLean will keep us really busy.
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http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/ForestManagement/AlbertaReforestationStandardsScienceCouncil/ReforestationStandardsQA.aspx
5.Is reforestation mandatory?
?Yes. Reforestation has been the law in Alberta for over 30 years. The requirements for reforestation exist in the Forests Act, Timber Management Regulation, and Forest Management Agreements.
?An estimated 65 per cent of harvested areas are reforested by planting, 20 per cent by direct seeding and 15 per cent left for natural regeneration.[/b]?Approximately 75 million seedlings are planted in Alberta each year.
Looks like natural regeneration is supposed to be the lowest form, while replanting should be over half? Maybe the program has just fallen behind?
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http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPrograms/ForestManagement/AlbertaReforestationStandardsScienceCouncil/ReforestationStandardsQA.aspx
Looks like natural regeneration is supposed to be the lowest form, while replanting should be over half? Maybe the program has just fallen behind?
Thats good to know. Thanks.
I always thought there could be an opportunity to trade some tree planting for the forest company in exchange for some dirt work with the heavy equipment they have. I never got a much of a positive reaction from the idea.
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Proper spelling is aprantly Lesiure.... not Leisure.
Actually it is Lesueur.... "The Sweat" in French
Nice of them to throw in a new road instead of using the existing ones... Oh well...
When I was there in February, we saw three trucks driving around in Johnson's bog past the broken fence ten feet from the signs.... That sort of thing is the reason we will never get the place back.
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We'll never get it back only because they don't want anyone in there anymore, it has nothing to do with the 4x4's,Quads,bikes,hikers,environmentalists or pine beetles, they're just feeding us a load of BS. If no one is around the less they have to worry about a log falling on somebody or a skidder running over a Jeep, it's all about the all mighty $. You can build as many bridges as you like, but it doesn't matter, it's not like they took all the hard work everybody has done into consideration when they destroyed that whole area did they? They royally screwed it up, a couple of trucks in a bog has nothing to do with it, and if you believe it does then I'm sorry that you are so blind to the reality of what is really happening in the backcountry all across Canada.
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Well quads are basically allowed everywhere. They are supposed to stay on the designated trails, but it is quite obvious that nobody cares including SRD. The non-designated trails are still well used and there are no "this trail is closed" signs.
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Well quads are basically allowed everywhere. They are supposed to stay on the designated trails, but it is quite obvious that nobody cares including SRD. The non-designated trails are still well used and there are no "this trail is closed" signs.
Ahhhh, this was the brilliant strategy of SRD. If it is not signed OPEN, than it is CLOSED (no signage necessary).
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I just finished watching SHOOTER! Excellent example of how to deal with the government.
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Have any of you done any tree planting? I mean like big scale reforestation.
I did it in my early 20's and its VERY hard work and has to be done correctly. I was the slowest on my crew and consistently put in 1800 trees per DAY. The top guns on the crew were 5000-6000 per day and we had REALLY good codintions where we were.
To replant a section like that would have taken my partner and I probably 4-5 FULL days. Do you really want to get into that??!?!?
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Why in the world would anyone even consider jumping on a tree planting project after industry has reaped the benefits of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of lumber? If SRD wanted it reforested I'm sure that would be part of the agenda for the logging outfit. Right now they are in thier glory with the pine beetle infestation. The more they log, the more they can pass it off and blame it on Pine Beetles. This way they can strip any area of trees they wish to, and SRD has the benefit of passing the blame onto the beetle to anyone complaining about the excessive logging.
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So true. Don't even think of replanting....it looks SOOOO much better leaving it like it is. ::)
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Besides all those new roads they have built will be those promised new "trails". ::)