Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: 4low on March 29, 2010, 02:14:38 PM
-
Hey all;
Just wondering how "new parents" or parents, fair with using their wrangler with their family, primarily with babies in baby seats. opinions and experiences please!
Thanks,
Mike
-
I have a 94 YJ highly modified for offroad and we take our 2 and 4 year olds with us all the time. Its a little tight for space but the two seats will fit. I don't think I would consider it for a daily driver just since it doesn't have 4 doors it a bit of a pain.
-
i dated a chick with a child and it was never a issue putting the little one in the back seat but if your looking to buy
an older model like a TJ then i would suggest the unlimited TJ .. my brother has one and he has a 2 and half year old and its so easy to get the child in and out even is wife has no problems
-
You can use them to get a down payment on a nice Cherokee. ;D
-
If you do, look for a 03+. Transport canada mandated all vehicles built in 2003 and newer must have the LATCH system installed for mounting carseats. It is a much more secure way to anchor those seats in a vehicle.
-
Depends, how much do you enjoy friday night frolics ;D after raising 3 kids I can tell you she wont br happy long with a 2 door, Wrangler or otherwise. One kid maybe , one kid and an infant? good luck. If it's temporary and you end up getting a second car for a daily driver then it's all good, otherwise????
Just my $.02
-
I have a 98' TJ. Been using it steady with my 1 year old, almost 2 and my 3.5 year old. In the summer it is awesome and easy to get in and out of with the soft top or from behind. In the winter its a bit of a pain, but not bad. The worst part is climbing in to install and take out the child seats. Most newer vehicles come with ratcheting rear seatbelts which make it really easy to get a good tight install. The TJ's don't so you have to use a little clip which sucks. This is only a problem if you are taking the seat in and out like I often do. If you are installing it and leaving it, its unimportant. I would recommend a year which has the latch system. It would make things alot easier.
Not sure how a Unlimited would make it any difference. Other than more room for gear, I think the legroom is exactly the same.
A baby seat/carrier system definitely takes alot of room in any vehicle. It had to go behind the passenger seat since it became to restricting to me since I needed the seat probably 5 clicks forward to get it to not touch. Proper installation requires it to not touch the seat in front.
If you buy an older TJ you will need to add tether anchors. They can be had at any Jeep dealership.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/Outtafocus/Jeeps%20and%20Stuff/Jeep%20Projects/SeptemberLong2009220.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/Outtafocus/Jeeps%20and%20Stuff/Jeep%20Projects/SeptemberLong2009221.jpg)
-
the unlimited has another 6 - 8 inchs of leg room behind the front seats and 10 inches extra behind the rear seat .
but tis the room behind the drivers seat thats nice because you can climb in and your not sitting on your child when you strap them in
-
From what I have seen its 2" of extra legroom and 13" of extra cargo space. My guys are now just getting to the point where their legs are kicking the back of my seat, so I think 2" would be pretty heavenly. One of the biggest benefits is that 13" of cargo space. Whether its for hauling a stroller or having room for kids and trail gear.
All said I am definitely leaning towards moving to a 4 door JK when the time is right. Although I love my Jeep, its not terribly family friendly when it comes to wheeling. I don't have to like to pick between trail gear and my co-pilots. For running around town it works great. They definitely love it!
-
If you want a Wrangler - and if it's in your budget - I'd suggest one of the new JK Unlimited Wranglers. They actually have 4 doors, which will make your life much easier with car seats.
-
we had a infant seat in the back of a lifted 97 tj. it was a wee bit of a reach but i thought it was awesome and the kid had a great view. putting in the bucket into the base took seconds.
now with two kids , the xj fits much better with a front facing seat. bucket in the middle and enough room on the side for a double stroller and stuf.
nice fit across the back.
-
I have had my TJ Rubicon for 5 years now and have wheeled with my now 6 year old since day one. It has also been my daily driver for the past 5 years so I can give you my honest opinion.
I love my jeep and will probably be burried in it one day. I have a ton of memories wheeling with my son and hope to have many more over the years, but.... Having a two door jeep sucks when you have kids. Summer is fine because you can load the kids from the side. Winter sucks! Unless you are 6'6" and have the reach of a gorilla it sucks having to buckel your kids in the back. I can't tell you how many times I have stained my pants from slush/mud on the rear fender flairs. Also there isn't much room. After loading the camping gear in the jeep there was only room for myself and my son for the weekend. No wonder I stayed single for so long.
Now I have four kids and the jeep has become down right impracticle. I still refuse to get rid of her but I am shopping for a new 4 door JK in the fall. I still won't have room for the whole family but it is a little more practicle seeing as I only have three of the kids full time. Time to turn the '03 into a BRUTE.
Do yourself a favour and buy something that will fit your needs for the long run. ;)
-
Thanks for the replies, I definately appreciate all the first hand experience!
The plan would be for the jeep to be my dd, and to have a more "family" oriented vehicle that the wife would drive, but ultimately I imagine in a family (zero experience on my part) both need family capabilities, I'm weighing options, and was looking for first hand experience, which you guys def. were able to share with me.
I had a YJ, and wanted to be able to share the experiences I had with the YJ with any potential offspring, that may or may not be coming ;D so I was thinking TJ, price is def. a factor, as I don't know what it's going to be like solo income (especially mine) trying to support 2 other people.
Thanks again for the responses!
Mike
-
We have 2 wranglers, an o7 jk 4door, and an 03 tj. 2 kids one is 1.5 the other 11.
I don't mind the tj with the little one for short trips to the grocery store as I will shut off the airbag and put his seat up front. with my oldest it is no issue front seat or back..... however if I am taking him to hockey their is only room for his hockey bag in the back and him up front. and that is the limit with a 2 door. they are fine for crusing but if you take the family out to do some light shopping you will not even fit a box of diapers in the back with 2 kids, forget going to the inlaws with the 2 door because you will not have room for clothes let alone things like a booster seat, playpen toys... and ect.
now the 4 door... you can store the same amount of kid stuff under the rear seat as you can in the entire 2 door..... We took the wifes 4door to cold lake for xmas filled 2 long rubbermade containers with gifts stacked them easily in the back and still had room for all playpens saucers.. booster seat and 3 suitcases.
Do yourself a favour get a 4door.
and a 2door just for yourself ::)
-
My wife has the minivan, and I was driving a suzuki sidekick. That did not work with 4 kids all of whom want to go wheeling with me. I got a ZJ for a DD and it will let me take all 4 boys and gear out.
-
Similar to Evil Jeep, we have an '04 Rubi and an '08 4 door JK Rubi (the "family vehicle").
We have had our soon to be 5 year old riding in the '04 since day 1. It does have LATCH and we used it, otherwise it definitely would have been more pain. Indeed, there is less luggage room, which is partly why I bought an aftermarket swing-away tire carrier/bumper which had a tray on top (rarely use it), and put one of those luggage things off of the trailer hitch when we need to haul stuff. I haven't got creative like some people who could take 3 camping with a TJ by using stuff sacks, bungees, netting and velcro to stuff things all over the sport cage etc. Definitely we love having the 4 door when we want to go somewhere where we need to take a ton of stuff tho. Also less reaching to put him in.. a definite benefit when he didn't want to go in.
cool, thx for the responses,
tinkerer, I think I live just down the alley from y0u, got the white sonoma, so " hi" from a neighbor!
-
About anyone wheelin with an infant/child.
One of my specialties is children/infants. Also, my main expertise is structural correction.
i post this often so it is a copy/paste.
**just because you did take your kid wheelin and they 'loved' it doesn't make it safe for the future health of that child. There is a thing called Shaken Baby Syndrome and i assure you that is exactly what you are doing by taking YOUNG babies/infants wheelin**
Do not take your 6 month old wheelin no matter how 'mild' the trail may be.
Until a child is able to stabilize themselves from the constant motion of a 4x4 on a trail, they will be doing microtrauma to their cervical vertabrae/neurological development.
As a test, strap yourself into the passenger seat with a blind fold. Do not use any part of your arms/legs to stabilize yourself. Go down an EASY trail. Tell me what that was like?
Your 6 month old will be even more affected as they have no idea of what the heck is going on.
They may laugh and giggle.
They may 'survive' it as a few parents will chime in.
But as someone in a profession that sees lots of kids daily for common complaints of ear infection, constipation, growing pains and headaches, i can share with you that the number one reason is poor spinal structure.
Wheelin and infants do not mix. Please wait til they are old enough to be aware of their environment and strong enough to overcome gravity.
Cheers.
-
a bit more...
my replies should be smothered with smiles as i have no desire to come across as anything but good thoughts.
Anyways, if you think about a common form of abuse, Shaken Baby Syndrome, the reason so much damage is sustained is because the baby is defenseless. They have no awareness of position sense. Also their muscular development (both voluntary and involuntary ie postural) is lacking not allowing them to deflect forces consciously and subconsciously.
Lets say that the car seat does prevent an actual shaken baby syndrome, thankfully. But lesser forces are still being applied. The neck is the key to our health. Without boring you, lets just say that the cervical spine has the greatest number of transmitters and receivers in the entire human body. If during a trail ride the child could be filmed in slow motion, you will absolutely see that they have no control over stabilizing the environment. As a driver we have the steering wheel, as a passenger, the experience even for an adult is much more chaotic. Now, imagine being blindfolded...
Until that child is AWARE of the environment being able to BRACE themselves for the changing terrain, than they are nothing more than a rag doll being tossed around on a wheeelin adventure.
The problems start showing up in children by age 8. Headaches, low back pain and 'growing' pains are the most common complaints. This is NOT normal.
At the end of the day, is it really worth it?
0-3 yrs of age is the most crucial neurological development period. i would wait until they are over that period.
-
Just to clarify 4low.... Spinalguy is a chiropractor...
-
haha, I know, met him when he first moved to cow town with his old (sweet) TJ....ahhhh, good times....
-
Yep, Mike and i have known each other for many years 8)
The thread hijack on my part was not really answering 4lows question but it was an educational opportunity ;)
But in answering the question...i have had a few patients over the years with jeeps. The jeep/babyseat can be done
but is not a preferred vehicle. What a few of them did, was carry their baby more often leaving the car seat in the jeep.
Its a really good bonding and if you were born prior to the 90's, chances are mom and dad carried you in their arms running errands. :)
-
a bit more...
my replies should be smothered with smiles as i have no desire to come across as anything but good thoughts.
Anyways, if you think about a common form of abuse, Shaken Baby Syndrome, the reason so much damage is sustained is because the baby is defenseless. They have no awareness of position sense. Also their muscular development (both voluntary and involuntary ie postural) is lacking not allowing them to deflect forces consciously and subconsciously.
Lets say that the car seat does prevent an actual shaken baby syndrome, thankfully. But lesser forces are still being applied. The neck is the key to our health. Without boring you, lets just say that the cervical spine has the greatest number of transmitters and receivers in the entire human body. If during a trail ride the child could be filmed in slow motion, you will absolutely see that they have no control over stabilizing the environment. As a driver we have the steering wheel, as a passenger, the experience even for an adult is much more chaotic. Now, imagine being blindfolded...
Until that child is AWARE of the environment being able to BRACE themselves for the changing terrain, than they are nothing more than a rag doll being tossed around on a wheeelin adventure.
The problems start showing up in children by age 8. Headaches, low back pain and 'growing' pains are the most common complaints. This is NOT normal.
At the end of the day, is it really worth it?
0-3 yrs of age is the most crucial neurological development period. i would wait until they are over that period.
When my kids were littler and we took them out on trails I would always makes sure to adjust the carseats so that they were leaned back a lot more, by stuffing a rolled up blanket or something behind the bottom of the seat. This seemed to be a lot more comfortable for them as they did not need to support the weight of the head with the neck muscles, rather they could just lie back, and the head is supported by the headrest.
Curious to hear spinalguy's thought on this.
-
by stuffing a rolled up blanket or something behind the bottom of the seat.
It's getting away from how the seats were designed to be used. In an accident it could be possible for things to shift and the seat to become loose. Or, if you have to stop fast or hit something now their heads could swing more. Like if you were in the passenger seat with the seat back trying to sleep, your torso can swing a lot further than if you're sitting upright.
I know you mean well, no one would purposely put their kids at risk but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Just something to consider.
-
jpthing,
credit for thinking outside the box but i have to go with dac on this one :)
-
It's getting away from how the seats were designed to be used. In an accident it could be possible for things to shift and the seat to become loose. Or, if you have to stop fast or hit something now their heads could swing more. Like if you were in the passenger seat with the seat back trying to sleep, your torso can swing a lot further than if you're sitting upright.
I know you mean well, no one would purposely put their kids at risk but it doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
Just something to consider.
car seats are designed to protect children in high speed impacts, not for providing comfort and body support against random minor bumps and jolts in all different directions such as wheeling at less that 15 kph, where a high speed impact is completely impossible, so I would not immediately dismiss the idea that a alternate setup could be better for an alternate application. additionally, the rolled up towel or blanket is actually recommended by the carseat manufacturers as a method to adjust the cheaper non adjustable carseats to the proper angle where required in some vehicles. all I am talking about is adjusting it so it is angled a little more back than the suggested "ideal" position (for high speed collisions)
spinal guy, consider the implications of this before you dismiss it. no longer do you look back to see you kid's head drifting forward and have to stop and adjust them every time you hit a bump, hit the brakes or go down a hill. Instead they are leaned back just a few extra degrees and there head is supported. Additionally, they are protected more from impact up the spine through the seat from bumps and jolts. Kind of like how if you ride a bicycle with an upright "chair" position you can damage your spine from hitting bumps but with the leaned over forward position the impact does not travel straight up your spine (although you may strain the muscles in the back of the neck from trying to look where you're going)
If you want proof that this is way less traumatic for little necks and spines, go whelling with a kid in a carseat setup normally and observe as you drive on flats, uphill, and downhill. When you go uphill, the seat tilts back a little and the head never falls forward...the kid does not have to support hthe weight of his head against every bump. when you drive downhill the kid's head can tilt forward or to the side in what is obviously a painful or damaging posture. You can drive a mild uphill trail all day long and never see even a sleeping child's head fall forward even once...just tap the brakes gently on a downhill with a sleeping child and you can practically see the muscles tearing as their little head bobs and bounces forward.
as to this position in a front seat being dangerous for adults, there is no comparison...the chilren are in a 3-point harness which prevents them from sliding forward onder the belt as an adult would.
I am not suggesting anyone setup their carseat this way for the street but for wheeling I think it is a huge improvement.
-
you make sense with your answer.
But, i can not give a blessing on wheelin under 3yrs of age. Obviously many have done it with no problems (yet?) but there is always the old granny that smoked and drank daily and lived to be a 100. Not everyone can pull it off. Its a personal decision and i am just supplying some food for thought. :)
-
OK bud, now you're just not thinking about the big picture. You have to get to the trail right? Usually involves driving down the highway to get there? Accidents happen, just because you're going slow on the trail doesn't mean you won't find yourself in trouble on the way there or back. What if one of the slight grades gives way and it happens to be right beside a drop off? Just because you're going slow down a trail, especially in the foot hills doesn't mean you won't find yourself in a position where you're moving faster than intended.
We've already established that taking really young kids/babies offroad is a really bad idea. Stop trying to justify it's a good idea just because you've done it.
Case in point I've had my kids out (3 and 5) they were awake and fine till about the last half hour of the trip, then got tired and bored and fell asleep. We were on a pretty gentle trail and their heads still bounced around more than I thought was good. Hind sight I shouldn't have taken them out, I don't plan on doing it again until they are older. You can drive as slow as you want, their heads are still going to sway.
And with the towel, if you're in an accident, you can't guarantee it's going to stay put under the seat no matter how tight you get the seat straps. When you think about the possible forces from a head on collision with another vehicle or rock or whatever, I'd be betting the towel can shift or become dislodged.
Tom beat me to it, with a much shorter more civil answer.
-
I think what Boone is trying to say is that this would be something he would do when he got to the trail, not on the way there.
I don't have kinds yet, so I don't know what I would do, but my better judgement would likely say to wait until they are older and more able to take care of themselves.
I would think arround 7 maybe.
by that time, they might enjoy it more as they can go for longer times without getting really tired.
just my 2 cents.
steve
-
I think what Boone is trying to say is that this would be something he would do when he got to the trail, not on the way there.
I don't have kinds yet, so I don't know what I would do, but my better judgement would likely say to wait until they are older and more able to take care of themselves.
I would think arround 7 maybe.
by that time, they might enjoy it more as they can go for longer times without getting really tired.
just my 2 cents.
steve
wow...tense.
and yes this is something you do when you get there, and reset when you go.
I am not asking anyone to advocvate or recommend wheeling with small children.
I am simply pointing out that when traveling at very low speeds on bumpy terrain there is much less tendancy for the child's head to fall forward when the seat is sloped back slightly more. This statement is not an opinion it is a fact.
Spinalguy perhaps you will riddle me this...in general in a bumpy environment would it be preferable for a small child's head to be a) leaned back onto a padded cradle head rest or b) dangling forward with the weight of the head tearing neck muscles?
And the idea that one could roll off a cliff or something and their child would not be protected because the seat was leaned back is laughable...in a roll the entire vehicle is changing angle 360 degrees possibly more than once so it's unlikely 10 degrees angle on the carseat will make a difference IMHO. More important factors would be securing items inside the vehicle, intrusions of items such as branches and rocks (I guess soft topps are unsafe too) and how much falling there was before the smash. The seats get mounted in the normal way. The towel or blanket is actually reccomended by the carseat companies as a method of acheiving their reccomended angle in cars where the seatback is too steep and not adjustable.
Anyone who says that deviating from the proper angle while wheeling is somehow unsafe is diregarding the fact that that proper angle was arrived at from research into collisions on the roads at higher speed and may not in fact be the ideal angle when the product is used for a different application.
I always start by reading the instructions with anything and I have great repect for the time and R and D that OEM's put into the products we buy. However, when using a product for an application different than that for which it was intended, the instructions do not always apply.
-
This is starting to sound like a debate on belt dressing again.......
Yous say you trust the R&d techs that develop the products you use..... I myself would trust those exerts as well as the experts that deal with the aftermath of a parents bad choice.... such as Spinalguy. I have on occasion taken a group of 2 - 4 year olds out for a spin out camping with friends..... drove around the campsite thru a mud puddle, spun the tires let them get a little excited.... 5 minutes they were satisfied they got to go out and I probably never exceeded 10km/hr. I n all honesty this is all they need at that age. I have also had my own 1.5 year old in the jeep when backing out of the drive way and watched his head bob back and forth from the curb alone... I myself would never subject him to hours of that on a trail... I agree fully with Spinalguy and many others that it probably is not good for young kids, your towel trick may work... or it may not, I would not be willing to gamble my childrens health on a theory.
I do not see the point in arguing with spinalguy when he is a trained professional and only posting what he feels is in the best interest for the members of the CJA and their families. While you seem to be a bit more of a "novice inventor" who feels that after reading a manufactures instructions he can make a product using discount bin parts that will far exceed any product on the market............ If it was possible to engineer a child seat ment for the rigors of wheeling they would be available at 4wheeling shops and they would not be able to keep them in stock.
Aside from the safety, how is your 2 or 3 yearold going to act when you blow out a knuckle or drive shaft or something more serious, are they going to sit nicely on the side of the road while you lay on your back and try to repair your rig? what if it turns to an all night camping trip with freezing temps?
I believe the CJA even has rules regarding the age of passengers on sponsored runs, if it was as easy as stuffing a towel under the seat to make it safe we would all be doing it as it is a fantastic way to spend time with the family. But for the next 2 - 3 years if we decide to take both kids to enjoy the back country we will not be leaving the gravel....
-
what I'm getting at is that if you ARE going to wheel with young kids a slightly more leaned back position seems far better on their neck.
professionals by definition are generally very reluctant to give any advice that does not precisely toe the party line or deviates from accepted practice. this is one of the results of our overly litigious society.
I'm sure not all of you always wear safety goggles when using an impact gun or a screwgun or even a wrench for that matter, yet experts reccomend you do every time. Of course when grinding or drilling or cutting the goggles are required...it's called common sense...how many of you wear a leather apron and beanie every time you weld? yet this is what the experts reccomend for safety. Without common sense it is possible to follow the instructions to the letter but still do something stupid. Not every possible scenario is always considered in product instructions. And violating instructions is not always dangerous either, they are really just trying to protect their butts. My milwakee drill for example states that it should never be used under the influence of alcahol yet I have had a beer or two on several occasions while using it to drywall the basement. The instructions do not however mention anywhere to be careful when drilling or driving that you are not going to hit live wires or a gas line....so to be safe should I follow the instructions exactly and throw my beer out the window and then blindly drive screws where I know there may be wires? In order to be safe you must take outside information such as accepted practice or instructions but also consider whether or not that makes sense in your specific situation.
thinking outside the box is the basis of all innovation. The first baby carseats were homemade contraptions made by parents yet they led to the great products on the market today.
when using any product outside of it's intended application the ability to think for ones self is a requirement.
It is easy to dismiss any new idea without ever trying it by stating that "it's not done that way". If it was done that way it would not be a new idea, so the logic there is false.
And I'm still pretty sure there are bigger problems facing society than the misuse of belt dressing.
-
Uhh what happens to the spine and brain of a child when it gets tossed side to side, even at low speeds, regardless if the kid is inclined ...?? Thanks for the brain damage Dad...maybe you should give your head a shake.
-
what I'm getting at is that if you ARE going to wheel with young kids a slightly more leaned back position seems far better on their neck....snip
i guess what you are missing is that wait until 3 before you wheel a kid. So, i can not even begin to address your car seat set up.
These car seats are good ones:
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=341&products_id=10350&sort= (http://simpsonraceproducts.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=341&products_id=10350&sort=)
http://simpsonraceproducts.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=341&products_id=10328&sort= (http://simpsonraceproducts.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=341&products_id=10328&sort=)
Evil-Jeep, that was well stated.
jpthing, i leave you with this...
give it a try doing the passenger experience once on an easy trail. Keep in mind that your experience will be less impacting as you have developed all of your stabilizing muscles. You also have an 'idea' of what a trail looks like and how a rig behaves. Your toddler doesn't.
But, most kids will enjoy it or sleep 8) But, micro traumas are occurring.
The kid might end up being the grandma that smoked and drank her whole life and lived to a 100, but the kid might not.
Is it realllly worth it?
Having kids leads parents to sacrifices. Vacations, camping trips and wheelin trips present challenges. If arrangements can be made to choose trails that can be hiked by your partner and kid in a backpack, than it probably is a better choice. Getting bumped around in a knapsack tends to be linear movement. A jeep is more like a gyroscope.
don't anyone feel bad if you have been wheelin with the little ones. Wheelin and kids has been going on for decades. i bet there are guys/gals on this forum that have been wheelin since they were born.
i used shaken baby syndrome as a thought provoker. In no way are you doing that by taking your lil one wheelin. The car seat prevents that.
i think that overall, parents nowadays coddle and protect their kids too much. i'm just suggesting that waiting until 3 is a prudent choice
-
Thanks for posting up everyone. Let's move on... please.
-
If you are going to wheel with children I beleive you should do what you can to maximize their comfort.
Wow. Maybe IF you take away the IF, there is no need for you to justify your actions.
i'm done.
Good luck.
Hope your kid makes it through life without back aches, head aches, growing pains (a BS diagnosis) and all other crap that you should never experience ever as a kid.
-
Thanks for the kind wishes.
My kids are both over three, they are both still in carseats and they both like to go wheeling.
Leaning back the seat a little extra improves their comfort, so I see no reason to do otherwise.
When a new idea is presented, stating that the new idea is not the "correct" way is an invalid rebuttal...of course it's not the accepted practice...that's what makes it a new idea.
I do not mind if people disagree with me, but for me, convincing arguments must follow basic rules of logic.
-
Uhh what happens to the spine and brain of a child when it gets tossed side to side, even at low speeds, regardless if the kid is inclined ...?? Thanks for the brain damage Dad...maybe you should give your head a shake.
perhaps you fail to grasp the discussion, or are just exagerating but no one is talking about brain damage. The discussion is about damage to muscles, ligaments, etc.
"thanks for the brain damage, Dad" is a great line and it sorta reads like you made a valid point but no...brain damage is not the issue, muscle damage is, and what I am talking about is a method to reduce the likelihood of muscle damage.
If brain damage is a concern to you, you should be aware that prolonged exposure to welding fumes can cause it...just a heads up.
My kids are both old enough, by Spinalguy's defininiton to go wheeling. Yet I am a very bad man for tilting their seats back to a more comfortable position on the trail? For serious? I fear it is you, Apeman who should consider giving your head a shake...or perhaps moving into some fresh air.
-
ya.........so...........uhhhhhhh.........about me pickin' up a wrangler again to replace my truck as a family vehicle........... :P
I checked out some TJ's, they sure are nice compared to my ol' YJ..........seems like enough room getting in and out of the back........but the whole "practical" thing is still waving around in my face.........yeesh, I hate tough decisions......
-
Thanks for the information posted on here from different people. I never really took into account the "damage" I could be doing to my little children while taking them out wheeling. It's definately food for thought now . I will wait a few years until they get older .
-
4low, good to see you still kicking tires.
jpthing, if you or others had gone to the links i provided, you would have found that the car seats i recommend are indeed ADJUSTABLE for tilting ;)
TomaTOE...ToMAtoe.
At the end of the day the microtraumas i am discussing are an assault on the nervous system. Because the highest population of neuroreceptors is found in the neck. Therefore
any damage to muscle, ligament and structure results automatically in NERVE interference or irritation resulting in sub optimal firing of neurons along that pathway INCLUDING the Brain. Damage to muscle pales in comparison to the decreased performance of the nervous system which almost always results in Symptoms.
-
Just a bit of personal relation to what Spinalguy is saying.... I suffered two broken backs and a broken neck between the ages of 16 and 20, while the bones and muscle have healed properly, I have massive nerve damage. The common symptoms I have now include inabilty to properly regulate body temperature on my back, I have no or little sense of touch along my spine, headaches, reduced vision, arthritis, and many more forms of general soreness, I am only 30 now and will only continue to suffer more as I get older......
4low, you had mentioned at one point cost was a factor in your decision, a couple things to consider. Depending on your credit it may be cheaper or equal to finance a newer JK over a TJ. I pay 20 a month more than my wife for my 03 TJ than her 07 JK unlimited, she also still has warranty and less maintenance cost on her jeep.
I would do a monthly payment comparison based on the different interest rates you can get on a newer jk and an older TJ, then ball park a yearly maintenance and upkeep for the two, factor in the different insurance costs for each and compare the totals.. you may be closer to a newer Jeep than you think.
-
thx for pointing out options with financing. Unfortunately i work in a low pay volatile industry (debt bad, specially with preggo wife), so i wanted to buy outright, and spend no more than 5g's. But if it were an option (financing), you have brought some things i hadnt thought about to light. Thx!
-
Mike, as that is your budget. i would buy one from the USA. Way more bang for the buck. i have detailed instructions on how to do it painlessly.
Tk
-
hmmm, I hadn't thought about importing....tha'ts a cool idea too. Thanks for mentioning that Tom......
I just re-read my last post, sounds bad. I have good credit, I just don't want to finance a vehicle and then go to work one day and have the pink slip handed to me, ( I need a new career choice) not to mention the lack of guaranteed year round work.........haha.....ahhhhh........