Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: JackstandJohnny on October 22, 2010, 10:09:12 PM
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i'm pretty sick of hearing how great toyos are ;)
i ran iroks, and i missed them. they were a terrific alberta tire. great in the snow/ice, ok in the mud (much better than mud terrains) and were, well, terrible on the street.
so whats the best tire for Alberta wheeling?
i run pro comp mts. they aren't great but have been ok. for what i paid for them tho, i can't complain at all. i still think the iroks are great, and if they made them in a 15" rim 35" tall i'd be all over it.....................
i guess what i'm getting at, is what makes a toyo so much better than other MTs? like a BFG, a Cooper Mt, an MTZ?????????? they seem to be all the rage. i just don't get it.
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you probably never will. if you are close minded about something, well, nothing will change your mind.
i don't hear you sick of people saying how good lockers are or how good beadlocks are....
what's the difference? there are high end items that work better than anything else.
lockers, beadlocks, winches, toyos... etc.
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It's their weight and mystical properties. Like adding calcium chloride it lowers your centre of gravity and adds a touch of magic at the same time........
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what's the difference? there are high end items that work better than anything else.
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thats debatable........... and close minded in itself. just cause it costs more doesn't make it better.....
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thats debatable........... and close minded in itself. just cause it costs more doesn't make it better.....
They weigh a bit better than 10 pounds more than the coopers and have the same tread pattern. For what most do it doesn't seem worth it.
As for lockers, as I recall the last time I went out with my open front and ls rear the guys with lockers got stuck in all the same holes I did.
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just cause it is high end, doesn't mean it costs more. i am talking high quality, not high priced.
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just cause it is high end, doesn't mean it costs more. i am talking high quality, not high priced.
For the right price I agree, they are a good tire. But considering the weight of a jeep how well do the sidewalls flex? Are they not designed for a 1 ton truck and built heavier?
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i dont' mean to be closed minded Al. i'm just curious why everyone seems to be getting them is all. when i was shopping around for tires, if they weren't 1600 for 4 tires i'd have considered it.
anyways, back to the topic.
i still think an iroc swamper is hands down the better offroad tire.......... i can't wait to run them again........
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I've got no complaints at all on my BFG MT's. Ive had a few sets with no issues, except for some chunking but thats probably from cut fenders, rocks and hard wheelin'... 8) They are great on the trail, barely any road noise and are decent in the winter. (gotta be in 4x if its slick, but I dont know what tire would get you up and going on ice anyways). They aren't siped, but still work great IMO.
I ran those superswamper TSL's and they wheeled well, but were looooooud on the road.
What's a toyo?
:-X
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I think it depends on your style of wheeling. I've been on enough runs with guy's running Iroks/Toyo's, and from what I've seen:
Iroks excel in mud, lose gravel, and surprisingly they kick arse on lose & hard packed snow.
Toyo's, they're great in snow, lose gravel and rocks, not so great in mud. But if you try and avoid mud as much as possible, you can't go wrong with toyo's.
Fiend was able to followed my around, climbing steep steep hills with over a foot of snow. He was Open/Open, I was locked and chained, mind you I was breaking trail. But the fact that he was able to walk up on those steep hills, was amazing.
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how are toyos muds on a dd?
reasonable on ice? noisy? wear fast, not so fast?
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For the right price I agree, they are a good tire. But considering the weight of a jeep how well do the sidewalls flex? Are they not designed for a 1 ton truck and built heavier?
Some of the Toyo's are E rated (mine are). Some are C or D rater (Tubby's are). Even with the E rated sidewalls, it's just a matter of picking the right pressure - both on and off road. If you look at the vid link I posted in the "member's trail reports" section, you can see that even an E rated sidewall will flex appropriately if the pressure is right.
As far as Toyo MT's on a DD, I love 'em. After almost 20,000 km they're wearing evenly, lasting well, and behave themselves on the road. They're not quiet, but they certainly don't sound like a set of TSL's coming down the road. I've never driven them on the ice, but the guys that have run 'em on ice tell me that they're okay. Not great, but not scary either. I'd imagine that you could make a big improvement in their ice performance by siping them. $30 per tire at Kalt tire Chinook :)
Joel, I think you've hit the nail on the head - I would be surprised if a Toyo MT (or any other MT) was able to keep up with an Irok or other swamper type tire in the mud.
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i've run pro comps mt's before, they were good in the mud, but i did not care for them in the snow that much or on the pavement, especialy driving on packed snow around town. so i down sized from 32's to 31's and bought the canadian tire goodyear wrangler territories. I wish they came in 35's. this tire is awesome if you want to run 31's. it is a winter compound, its great on the rocks and awesome in the snow and ice, and its good in the mud, i was surprised the traction this tire provides, feels much nicer than my pro comps i had, just too bad they are only avaliable in 31's otherwise that would be my tire of choice in a 35" package. did i mention they are great on the pavement too and quiet.
for next summer i'm hoping to upgrade to the 36" iroks. for the winter FC-II's will have to do.
what about the dick cepek mud country's anyone tried those? or maybe the Goodyear MT/R kevlar?
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you can see that even an E rated sidewall will flex appropriately if the pressure is right.
They're not quiet
True, my D rated ones flex alright. What pressure do you take yours down to? Ever worried about popping a bead?
I would have thought they would be good for quiet? ???
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I've had great luck with BFG AT KO's and Goodyear MTR's.
Neither ones the best in mud but are excellent in all other conditions, on and offroad.
The BFG's are nice and light which really helps with gas mileage and is easy on drivetrain components.
Vince
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True, my D rated ones flex alright. What pressure do you take yours down to? Ever worried about popping a bead?
I would have thought they would be good for quiet? ???
I've recently gone from running them at 11 psi on the trail down to 9 psi - so far so good. It did definitely make a difference in flex. I've got a ratchet strap picked out special for when I do pop a bead, but it hasn't happened yet.
As far as quiet goes...well, mine are 35" MT's. I don't have any complaints about the noise level, but they definitely make more noise than street tires.
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I prefer mtz's over toyo's but they probably won't quite last as long as a toyo. The STTs are just about the same as a toyo but at a better price. ProC X terrains are great in snow but horrible on ice. I'd like to try a set of maxxis trepadors out, after the bighorns are done, but that should be in more than a year hopefully closer to 2. I'm not a fan of Bfgs, the ATs chunk to easily and the MTs have no siping (but I have not tried a set of KM2 out). To call one one specific tire for all of Alberta is impossible, to many different terrains and it depends on the vehicle and the driver.
That's my 2 cents
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I agree with you on the IROKs. Just make sure to get the Bias Ply ones. I'm on my second set and have some wicked gouges in them already from Moab. Incidentally I tried a set of 37" radial Iroks and slashed two tires on the same run just 20 feet apart! Won't make that mistake again.
Also been impressed with Truxus MTs. Have a set of 33s on my Dad's XJ and Gunther runs them on his CJ. Seem to be almost as good as the Irok but a bit more road friendly. Again stay away from the radials or you'll be taking out sidewalls. That being said bias plies don't work well for a DD so if you street drive it a lot look for something else entirely.
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this post is about Toyo, not BFG or Goodyear
Joel, I think you've hit the nail on the head - I would be surprised if a Toyo MT (or any other MT) was able to keep up with an Irok or other swamper type tire in the mud.
back on the toyo topic....
i had superswampers before for 2 summer seasons. i've run toyos now for 2 summer seasons. i find them about equal in mud. fisher east was like a sunday drive. i do prefer more air for clearance but that doesn't slow the toyos down much.
nathan and I did a mini competition last winter in some deep fresh snow, toyo vs iroc. i was aired down more than him but i was also sitting lower in the deep snow. was quite fun but in the end i tugged him out :p
damn i wish it would snow soon.
no, they aren't as quiet as my bfg at's were, but they are way quieter than any other m/t tires i have driven or rode with.
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I have the Firestone Destination M/T. For $230 installed and balanced with very minimal road noise I'll stick with those! Seem to get decent flex, clean out half decent and has taken my 2.5L open/open everywhere I asked on Fisher West. Cept for maybe up that edge in that one hole but that I think had more to do with my bumper hitting before my tires ;D
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It comes down to compound. Rod Hoy tried to comp a set of SST in red deer once. They were one of the worst compounds I've ever seen.
People think its all tread, but that simply isnt true.
The toyo has a fairly soft compound. Thats what sets it apart from most other radials.
Iroks are a cheap tire that do half decent in everything but the road, and have weak sidewalls that fold to easy. The only reason they fit up here is because they do good in the winter stuff.
My opinion is why bother with a poor quality tire that just tears up your front end when you can get the same performance out of a quality radial like a toyo. Unless your rig is trailored, or your size application restricts your to them.
Trxus are just junk period. Poorly maded, balancing issues, very weak sidewalls, and mediocre offroad performance. BFG's are old tech, and considerably lower offroad performance than other radials on the market today.
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Question for you Bill - since the Toyos have a softer compound, why do they still wear relatively well those of us that are covering plenty of road miles? Or in the oilfield applications?
I'm not doubting what you're saying, I just want to understand.
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It comes down to compound. Rod Hoy tried to comp a set of SST in red deer once. They were one of the worst compounds I've ever seen.
People think its all tread, but that simply isnt true.
tire that do half decent in everything but the road, and have weak sidewalls that fold to easy. The only reason they fit up here is because they do good in the winter stuff.
The toyo has a fairly soft compound. Thats what sets it apart from most other radials.
Dumb question, in what way is the compound used for the STT's bad? They don't seem to take a whole lot to balance, are not too expensive, seem to work ok in the winter. I never planned on running them too hard so chunking hasn't been an issue. They are quiet.
Saying that, the Toyo's were my first choice when I was looking but decided against them at the time. If I remember correctly the STT's were about 58 pounds per tire compared to the Toyo's 68 in the size I was looking at. Might have more to do with Load range D vs E though.
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i ran 37x12.50 MTR's on my Jeep. Than i put on 37x14.50 Toyo OC MT's...no comparison. Toyo flat outperformed on every possible off and on road application.
i just put Nitto Trail Grapplers in 35x12.50 on my Ram 2500. They are made by Toyo. i think they will be better than the Toyo oc mt.
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The sst couldn't hold traction rocks like the toyos and mtrs did.
Rob couldn't even get on the course at one point, their traction was so bad. Even TSLs were doing better.
That said, if someone doesn't do rocks the sst should last longer due to its stiffer compound.
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I really love my 37"/13.5 bias ply PitBull Rockers at 4lbs.... I don't like mud and love winter wheeling... I have 35"/12.5" BFG AT for the winter (with chains sometimes) but this year I'm keeping the Pitt Bull for the winter ...I tried them a bit before in the snow and I loved them. You need to run them at low pressure.
My next tires are Billy's old 38" toyos... I tried Bonnie's 33" on slippery/snow/ ice and was very pleased also. They are VERY heavy though. I think her 33"/13.5 /C rating with alu rims and Stauns are heavier then my BFG AT on steallies ::)... It is what it is... The 38" will do well with the one tons 8)
If I would have bought new... I would have went with a Pit Bull Rockers again bigger though because they measure at least 1 to 2" smaller then their measurement. My 37" on my Jeep are similar size then Joel 35" krawlers. :o
(http://www.4x4wire.com/reviews/pitbulls/compare.jpg)
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dom has always done well with his pitbulls
and skill is part of it, they fill most holes so he doesn't worry much.
as for tread life. well softer doesn't mean bad. the jeeps are very light for these big tires so put little pressure on the whole of the tire and that helps quite a bit. a main cause of tread wear is the road itself, and what it is made out of. ever drive on a newly paved road and then it ends and the road noise from the old pavement is quite loud till you get used to it again?
another thing is heat. we don't drive overly fast or corner like crazy. i am open open when on the road so i don't wear on corners like non selectable lockers do.
there are many factors. the toyos i just gave to Billy were at 95% (measured against a new tire at Nathans) and had about 5000km and maybe 10 trail runs. they would have lasted me quite a few years. Joels tires on the other hand will last till armageddon.
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Joel has the BFG Krawlers? how do they perform in mud? i've read they were mostly designed for rocks, and I too perfer to bypass the mud holes, but sometimes there is no way around.
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Joel has the BFG Krawlers? how do they perform in mud? i've read they were mostly designed for rocks, and I too perfer to bypass the mud holes, but sometimes there is no way around.
I would say the krawlers perform just about the same as Toyo's on mud. You need to run them at very low, 5-8psi to get the best traction as they really suck anything above 10psi. My krawlers are also sipped, so they perform exceptionally well on snow and ice.
Surprisingly, they have worn very well, just over 5years, I would guess they are about 75%. Oh and don't feel too bad Dom, my 35's actually stand taller then a 37 Irok's, and slightly smaller then 38 Toyo. 8)
Regardless of the tire, it's also important to understand how your tire will perform under different terrain/condition. Ie, on snow covered hills, my tires will actually gain more traction if I let off on the throttle and let the lugs/sipes bite. On muddy sections, I'll stay closer to one side so my side walls assist forward momentum.
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Iroks are a cheap tire that do half decent in everything but the road, and have weak sidewalls that fold to easy. The only reason they fit up here is because they do good in the winter stuff.
Trxus are just junk period. Poorly maded, balancing issues, very weak sidewalls, and mediocre offroad performance. BFG's are old tech, and considerably lower offroad performance than other radials on the market today.
You must have been running the radial Iroks and Truxus. If you took a look at my biasply Iroks and Gunthers or my dad's Truxus I think you might change your opinion. Both sets of my Iroks and 2 sets of Gunthers Truxus have been brutalized in Moab and neither of us have had a sidewall puncture. Heck I have to air down to below 10psi to even see a bulge in the bottom of the tire.
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My krawlers are also sipped, so they perform exceptionally well on snow and ice.
How are they for backing down ice covered hills at ungodly speeds?
Sorry, I just had to...
Vince
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How are they for backing down ice covered hills at ungodly speeds?
Sorry, I just had to...
Vince
Thanks Vince, you know how hard i've worked at erasing those 30 seconds from my life. ::)
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Thanks Vince, you know how hard i've worked at erasing those 30 seconds from my life. ::)
I was there Joel, no way did that ride take 5 seconds (but I'm sure it felt like an eternity to you :o).
Vince
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That was scarry crap!... You needed bullet proof underwear for that one!
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for everything that ab has to offer, the jack of all trades, master of none would probably be a set of studded goodyear wrangler duratracs.
Not sure about them for rock crawling, but otherwise they seem to have rave reviews. I just about bought them over the toyos.
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for everything that ab has to offer, the jack of all trades, master of none would probably be a set of studded goodyear wrangler duratracs.
Not sure about them for rock crawling, but otherwise they seem to have rave reviews. I just about bought them over the toyos.
I own one set of each ;)
Studs are not helpful in the summer - they actually decrease traction on hard surfaces (either dry or wet). On anything other than ice or snow, studs are counterproductive, and they are only legal to run during certain months of the year.
A set of Duratracs would probably work pretty well year 'round for Alberta though. I know a guy in Edmonton that has an LJ on 33" Duratracs. He did quite well in Moab on them at 11 psi, and he LOVES the way they perform during Alberta winters. His experience with them is a big part of why I bought mine. Since I have my Toyos for summer use, I have the luxury of running the studdded Duratracs.
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i admit, alot of interesting views on this.
i ask one question; if we take the 'road' aspect out, what would you go with?
by this, i mean a tire that 'you would run to the trail, and maybe on the road once and a while'
for what its worth, when funds permit, i will go back to iroks............. i've never liked a tire more......
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I have a JK running on 33 duratracs (load E) and they handle everything McLean Creek has thrown at them very well (they air down to 15 psi nicely). I really like these tires. I haven't run them in the winter yet, but I bought them because all of the reviews said they are great in the winter.
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i ask one question; if we take the 'road' aspect out, what would you go with?
by this, i mean a tire that 'you would run to the trail, and maybe on the road once and a while'
I really like my SSRs for this purpose, but I don't drive my Jeep much in the winter.
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i admit, alot of interesting views on this.
i ask one question; if we take the 'road' aspect out, what would you go with?
by this, i mean a tire that 'you would run to the trail, and maybe on the road once and a while'
for what its worth, when funds permit, i will go back to iroks............. i've never liked a tire more......
Compition compound Maxxis, or maybe a siped red label krawler.
If I were to run an offroad only tire, it would be one that was actually worth running.
I see no point in guys tearing up front ends on jeeps by running cheap shitty tires when a good radial goes everywhere they go, without the extra set of balljoints and unit bearings every 4 months...................
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the trepadors or the kreepy krawlers bill?
they look cool, and the comp tires have (or at least it looks like it) really deep tread depths
are the radial versions any good?
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Well, I'm all about the Truxus. Oh yeah, Bill, I said it - the Truxxxxxus rock 8) Best tire EVER. :P
[spoiler]
I'll be getting my Toyos in the new year for wheeling and then maybe some Durotracs for road use... ;D
[/spoiler]
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^ So did the obstacle that denied you a few weeks back (Even with your jeep boner), left you feeling less adequate, after you saw the toyo crowd made it look easy, have anything to do with your decision?
fyi. I didn't make it either, but honestly i'm done playing with that hoar anyways. ;)
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Well, since winter is coming what about something like this?
(http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/ice-racing-tires.jpg)
If trailered and in an appropriate size of course.
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Well, I'm all about the Truxus. Oh yeah, Bill, I said it - the Truxxxxxus rock 8) Best tire EVER. :P
[spoiler]
I'll be getting my Toyos in the new year for wheeling and then maybe some Durotracs for road use... ;D
[/spoiler]
you won't need durotracs if you get Toyo. Great Road tire too!
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he want light weight high bling street / dd tires for city to offset the 140lbs per wheel when he has beadlocked toyos.
it'll last a month before he doesn't wanna swap tires anymore :D
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and because I daily drive my rig.
Al - :P
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that's what I said, dd stands for daily driver
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gun/Flock_of_sheep.jpg)
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LMAO ;D
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brilliant!
so kev, no Iroks for you eh?
i have some super aggressive MTs i could part with. they're called pro craps i mean pro comps........ ;) i want some of them Trepedors in the 36" flavour........ (maybe i won't goto iroks lol)
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there's more options. guess there's a different tire out there for all lifestyles.
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The most important question is; Where do I get that gnarly chapeau? :D