Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: JeEpGrAnD on February 21, 2011, 11:27:28 PM
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Ok so i bought a dana 44 that is originally out of a xj an i'm going to swap it into a 98 zj....i'm just wondering if anyone on here has done this swap before and can lead me in the right direction :) i'm going to buy new cromoly shafts a spartan locker and 4.88 gears...Iand i want to try and save some money so i also wanted to know if someone that has done the set up before would give me a hand (there will be beer :) ) let me know thanks.
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while you wait you may read this (http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=21212.0).....
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That's a big job man...
Why does people come here and expect free stuff...Is this the CFSJA? Who are you?
If I understood right... You're going from an axle that had leaf springs to one that will have coils and arms....
Just to give you an idea ... gearing an axle is a minimum of 8 hrs labor per axle in a shop. That's what National use to change more or less. I'll let you do the math.
You definitely didn't do your homework >.....
This is NOT a beer job.
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heres a place to start. http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-ZF88BK&Category_Code=ZDT
other bracket options will be to cut everyting off your old axle and reuse those, or just order this kit. i'd email IRO and ask for directions. its a lengthy process. (i'm assuming you know its not a bolt in replacement)
for your locker/gears setup, just pay someone who knows how to do it, as stated, its not a 'beer' job. its quite an intricate and complex job for a firstimer;
when/if you have questions along the way in your buildup, there will be many people willing to answer your specific questions, but as stated this is not an 'afternoon' kind of job. and frankly, you should probably save the beer until your done otherwise nothing will get done!
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Do NOT reuse the old backets. If you are wheeling the unit hard enough to justify an axle swap then the stock brackets aren't beefy enough.
Do some searching on these two site to further educate yourself.
www.nagca.org (http://www.nagca.org)
www.mallcrawlin.com (http://www.mallcrawlin.com)
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Ok so i'm not an idiot to start i realize that this isnt going to be a direct swap and that it will take some time to do the gears but what i meant is that i would pay someone with beer and money (i'm not a total cheap arse) secondly i'm going to be buying the parts that i need all in one shot brackets...gears etc i was just hoping that someone could give me a hand more or less i am a machinist so i understand everything with the gears i just have never done it myself....what ever happened to people wanting to help out there fellow jeepers. Thnaks to the other comments though i have talked to iron rock and the 8.8 bracket kit they offer will work for the dana 44 swap i just wanted to see if anyone had done it and what problems they had thats all...
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oh and by the way they quote 6 hours on a gear setup not 8 maybe you should do your homework....:)
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nowhere in this does it say you are a mechanic. nowhere does it say you are willing to pay with ca$h. your post makes you sound like a complete noob looking for freebies. we get em almost every day here. we were nice to you given your post.
Ok so i bought a dana 44 that is originally out of a xj an i'm going to swap it into a 98 zj....i'm just wondering if anyone on here has done this swap before and can lead me in the right direction :) i'm going to buy new cromoly shafts a spartan locker and 4.88 gears...Iand i want to try and save some money so i also wanted to know if someone that has done the set up before would give me a hand (there will be beer :) ) let me know thanks.
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the only time people will come and join you for a beer is if you are bolting on a new bumper and you need a hand to lift it in place or maybe a roof rack
easy jobs for an easy beer ..
as for your swap . do lots of reading .. watch youtube vids of gear set ups get used to tearing apart your set up because u will do it over a dozzen times befor you get it right
i did my gears and on my own and my rear diff was a headach .. lots of put together check pull apart remeasure re shim put back together . oh now its to tight re do all teh previous steps
after doing my rear diff i had it down good fron diff took 4 hours and its dead on as for suspension and your new brackets do you have a welder . cuz that will be your biggest tool for that job . best thing would be pull out your stock diff put the new 44 in front of it and weld your brackets exactly where the other ones are make it look the same and it should be good ..
are you swapping the breaks out as well or does the new 44 have full set up things to consider and if you can do your gears when the diff isnt under the truck ull make your life way easier dont forget you got to regear your front as well .
lots more into it then you think ..
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I did this exact swap ( XJ D44 -> 98 ZJ ). Found a stripped down ZJ D44 with the aluminum housing. Had National swap the brackets from the ZJ D44 to the XJ D44. They did a decent job, but a machinist may have wanted it more perfect.
Didn't want to down grade to drum brakes so I bought a disk conversion kit from terraflex. There is likely a way to swap in the stock ZJ D44 disks, but I was looking for easy bolt-on.
Here are the issues I ran into:
- the terraflex kit requires that you install a ring spacer between the outer axle shaft bearing and the plate. It's difficult to get in place without using some silicone to hold it.
- the XJ D44 doesn't have an ABS tone ring. There may be a way to press on a new tone ring and fabricate a way to mount the ABS sensor, but I gave up on that and am looking to disable the rear ABS.
- the axle leaked out of the one side. I was told that the old XJ shaft was pitted and gear oil was seaping out. I ended up buying new superior axle shafts.
Lost track of how much money I spent, but it's roughly$2000 - $2500 including the gear swap.
If you're doing the fab and gear work yourself you could probably do it for $500 or so. Lots of labour though.
Hope that helps
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I wish someone would finish my diffs for beer....
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Why not just get a 44a out of a ZJ and swap it it?
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Most guys won't touch them cause of the aluminum pumpkin. You'd probably be better off with the D35 if you plan on doing any wheeling.
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Aftermarket support for the D44a is pretty dismal. I think there is only one, maybe two lockers available for it.
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Most guys won't touch them cause of the aluminum pumpkin. You'd probably be better off with the D35 if you plan on doing any wheeling.
There's no way the D35 is better than the 44A for wheeling. The 44A internals are a hybrid of D44 and D60 designs (and identical to those used in the Dodge Viper), and while the Al center section isn't ideal, a simple $150 bottom truss eliminates any section flex and section damage. I agree that locker selection is limited to lunchbox units, but for the price and ease of install the D44A is a logical upgrade for people with ZJs "blessed" with the D35.
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I'm not sure I'd bother replacing one with the other either way. Not enough advantage of one over the other to justify it. Either one can wheel a 33" tire and past that you should be looking for something better anyway.
Like a D60! :D
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im looking for D60's but no luck so far in my price range (case of beer) lol and for a 12 pack they need to be geared and locked ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Rear D60s are a dime a dozen. The one in the back of my ZJ came from a '80s Dodge 3/4ton. Lots of them a PYP. Of course its had a fair bit of mods to it since I got it. ;)
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3 words is all you need!
Front, Rear, Nines.
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nices are nice but 60's sound so much MEANER hahah
at least to me .
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9" center 14bolt outters, 9" center 60 outters.... Best of both worlds!
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so something like http://www.spidertrax.com/Spider9-Housing-65C35
and like this http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Full-Float-Spindles-Billet-4130-CrMo_p_1697.html
and then a removable carrier from junk yard, regear it, buy 35sline shafts. save money for a true hi9 carrier
and off the shelf 14 bolt hubs and you have your self a nice rear axle. 4.86 is the lowest you can go on a 9" right?
I think 60's and 14 bolts are still more budget friendly.
as to the original poster, regearing is a pain in the butt sometimes, and I dont think anyone will help for beer, unless your really good friends with someone who can do gears. quoting 6 or 8 hours, it doesent matter sometimes it takes few hours and sometimes it takes 14. the 44 swap, if you have access to a mig, buy some aftermarker brackets and do it your self, if you have the 8.8 conversion kit brackets, I could weld them up for you, but not for beer, i need money to finish my own project. as for the gears i cant help you there, but i'm sure someone can for $$. you cant expect much for beer.
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There's no way the D35 is better than the 44A for wheeling. The 44A internals are a hybrid of D44 and D60 designs (and identical to those used in the Dodge Viper), and while the Al center section isn't ideal, a simple $150 bottom truss eliminates any section flex and section damage. I agree that locker selection is limited to lunchbox units, but for the price and ease of install the D44A is a logical upgrade for people with ZJs "blessed" with the D35.
Guess you're right on the gear strength, but a cracked housing is still a failed diff. A truss and skid guard may be all you need, but I still wouldn't spend money on it. Might be just me though.
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Guess you're right on the gear strength, but a cracked housing is still a failed diff. A truss and skid guard may be all you need, but I still wouldn't spend money on it. Might be just me though.
You say that, but compare the hundreds of dollars in bracketry, disc brake/e-brake conversion, and complications required to install an iron XJ D44 into a ZJ compared to the D44a which is a simple cheap truss away from greater overall strength and bolts directly in, I think the 44A is a much more reasonable choice. It's certainly no D60 or 14B (far from it!) but if you're running, say, 33s and a locker the trussed D44a had worked just fine for many people.
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Raf, I bought my 14 bolt for $100, 9" currie housing for $160 detroit 35 spline for $200 set of axles for $300 and an aftermarket third for $200 and I'm pretty much done for $950 plus some new brakes.
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It's certainly no D60 or 14B (far from it!) but if you're running, say, 33s and a locker the trussed D44a had worked just fine for many people.
So do people with D35s.
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So do people with D35s.
I'd hesitate to run 33's on a locked D35, especially behind a V8 in a heavier vehicle, but that's a personal thing. That's certainly not to say you can't, but in terms of performance/strength envelope the 44A will have more headroom than the D35 at that tire size due to its internals alone.
Dana 35
Ring Gear Diameter = 7.562"
Pinion shaft Diameter = 1.376"
Ring Gear Bolt Count = 8
Pinion Spline = 26
Cover Bolt Count = 10
Axle Spline = 27
Axle Shaft Diameter = 1.09"
Dana 44A
Ring Gear Diameter = 8.5"
Pinion Shaft Diameter = 1.625"
Ring Gear Bolt Count = 10
Pinion Spline = 29
Cover Bolt Count = 10
Axle Spline = 30
Axle Shaft diameter = 1.31"
The 44A is not a bulletproof axle by any means, but as a bolt-in upgrade from the D35 for a couple hundred bucks it's a pretty decent unit.
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A 1 ton axle would be nice, but in the past this meant custom and expensive unless you want full width. I've been out of the game for a few years so I feel like a noob, but can you get a D60 or some other 1 ton combination axle for a ZJ that meets these requirements:
- stock width
- stock pinion offset
- relatively cheap
The 14 bolt / nine mentioned earlier sounds appealing if it has the right measurements.
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The D60 rear I used in mine is about as close as you can get without cutting it down. Its got a 65" WMS which is 5" over stock, or 2.5" per side.
Pinion is offset and quite cheap.
The expensive part is building an axle for the front to match the 8 bolt lug pattern.
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I'd hesitate to run 33's on a locked D35, especially behind a V8 in a heavier vehicle, but that's a personal thing. That's certainly not to say you can't, but in terms of performance/strength envelope the 44A will have more headroom than the D35 at that tire size due to its internals alone.
Dana 35
Ring Gear Diameter = 7.562"
Pinion shaft Diameter = 1.376"
Ring Gear Bolt Count = 8
Pinion Spline = 26
Cover Bolt Count = 10
Axle Spline = 27
Axle Shaft Diameter = 1.09"
Dana 44A
Ring Gear Diameter = 8.5"
Pinion Shaft Diameter = 1.625"
Ring Gear Bolt Count = 10
Pinion Spline = 29
Cover Bolt Count = 10
Axle Spline = 30
Axle Shaft diameter = 1.31"
The 44A is not a bulletproof axle by any means, but as a bolt-in upgrade from the D35 for a couple hundred bucks it's a pretty decent unit.
Drink bleach web wheeler. No one cares about junk D44A's.
Not everything is about dollars and cents. Most of its common sense, and d44a's are not common sense.
Thats the problem with budget wheelers, they will nickle and dime themselves into failure then blame everyone but themselves.
Who do you know wheeling locked 44 aluminums?
Seriously take that crap somewhere else.
I would, and have run competitions on a super 35 before even looking at a garbage 44a.
Do you people make up this web wheeler rhetoric just to see yourselves post? Are you going to take responsibility if someone actual fell for this bullshit and wasted money on your bad advice?
Jesus
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Raf, I bought my 14 bolt for $100, 9" currie housing for $160 detroit 35 spline for $200 set of axles for $300 and an aftermarket third for $200 and I'm pretty much done for $950 plus some new brakes.
Im confused Justin. What are using the 14b for? Just the hubs and then you use a custom hybrid 14b to 35 spline shaft?
Sounds like a good deal, but not many folks could nab them prices regulaly. Aside from making aquaintances with the local chop shops, I dont think you find to many 200$ 35 spline detroits laying around......lol
Sounds like a cool axle though.
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Who do you know wheeling locked 44 aluminums?
Seriously take that crap somewhere else.
:o
;D ;D ;D
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Do you people make up this web wheeler rhetoric just to see yourselves post? Are you going to take responsibility if someone actual fell for this bullshit and wasted money on your bad advice?
Jesus
And this is serious. It's signed by Jesus!
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So by the time you are done with buying brackets, getting them welded on correctly, regearing, and adapting the brakes (oh and figuring out how to disable the abs monster) wouldn't it just be easier to buy a super 35 kit and run whats in your jeep already?
http://www.sams4x4store.com/SuperiorDana35AxleKit.htm
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Drink bleach web wheeler. No one cares about junk D44A's.
Not everything is about dollars and cents. Most of its common sense, and d44a's are not common sense.
Thats the problem with budget wheelers, they will nickle and dime themselves into failure then blame everyone but themselves.
Who do you know wheeling locked 44 aluminums?
Seriously take that crap somewhere else.
I would, and have run competitions on a super 35 before even looking at a garbage 44a.
Do you people make up this web wheeler rhetoric just to see yourselves post? Are you going to take responsibility if someone actual fell for this bullshit and wasted money on your bad advice?
Jesus
Hahaha, Bill/Jesus is furiously pounding away at his keyboard again! The budget wheelers are taking over the Internets, and only one man can stop them! Look at him go!
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So by the time you are done with buying brackets, getting them welded on correctly, regearing, and adapting the brakes (oh and figuring out how to disable the abs monster) wouldn't it just be easier to buy a super 35 kit and run whats in your jeep already?
http://www.sams4x4store.com/SuperiorDana35AxleKit.htm
In hind sight I think I'd agree with you. I wasn't 100% satisfied with how they converted the CA brackets onto the XJ housing, the cost was more than anticipated, and the ABS thing bugs me too.
In my case I had the XJ axle and master install kit sitting there from another project (when I had my XJ) so it made sense to use it. Plus I liked the idea of a stronger housing over the 35.
The superior35 would be way less work and down time as well.
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I guess you'd need to add a few beers for the gear change with the superior35 which gets up to the $$ I spent on the 44.
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Hahaha, Bill/Jesus is furiously pounding away at his keyboard again! The budget wheelers are taking over the Internets, and only one man can stop them! Look at him go!
I'll never stop guys like you. There's no fixing stupid.
The least I can do is warn the unaware they are being led down the wrong path via some of the webs finest wheelers.
Wether or not they drink the koolaide is up to them.