Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: RedYJ on June 13, 2005, 08:42:29 PM
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Have anyone here had any troubles with having no doors on their Jeep? or no mirrors?
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If I recall correctly (iirc), and I am not a lawyer (ianal); the Highway Traffic Act stipulates that a street legal motor vehicle must have: A) seatbelts B) turn signals and a brake light C) side view mirrors D) a horn.
Now, don't take my word for it, but I am sure running doorless is ok (you should be wearing a seatbelt anyways), but make sure you have sideview mirrors. Plus I think a windshield is mandatory as well, unless its a motorbike.
And pull the proper fuse so your interior light isnt always on, like some dimwit I witnessed a few weeks ago.
Don't take my word for it. And don't go blaming me either! :D
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You don't need side mirrors just a rear view mirror because some of the older cars only have a driver's side, side mirror.
Also I would not worry too much about driving around in the city with no doors, people do it all the time. If you were to ask a Calgary Police Officer about it, they would probably give you a dumbfounded look, nothing against the police but when it comes to stuff like that, they just don't know. However, I would not do it on the highway or in BC. In BC you are only allowed to take the doors off if it could have come from the facotry with no doors, so CJs are OK.
Swamprat almost got a ticket for no doors but he had them in the back
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Yes, if your vehicle (Jeep) has removable doors, it is legal to drive without them. Hoever, you must have sideview mirrors to be legal. I believe the enforcement of that is very discretionary, because some old cars did not even have both side mirrors, only a center rear view. I guess, Jeeps come with mirrors when doors are on, so mirrors have to be there in some way when doors are off also.
Its best to avoid any problems to get the add-on mirrors for when your doors are off.
I drove everywhere with no mirrors on my old TJ, and never had any problems, but its not very safe and I could have got busted many times for it.
Darren
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So basically it will probably be no big deal as long as I obey the rules of the road and not be an idiot becaues they would use the lack of mirrors as an add on to another ticket for say speeding or somthing.
thanks for quick reply guys
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I ran doorless and mirror less for a week earlier this spring. Didn't run into any problems with the 5-0. One thing I did hate was not having the side mirrors. There are relocation bracketts you can buy from steelhorse and other accessory manufacturers... but do yourself a favor and build your own.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/doorless-mirror.html
pretty much a step by step on the cheap way of doing it. Hope this helps
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i drive doorless and window down on hood.
i carry cheap motorcycle mirrors that fit perfectly into the hinge where the pin from the door goes. i have never been hassled.
Tom :)
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cheap motorcycle mirrors
A-HA! Thats what I am looking for, the "cheap replacement" mirros from Crappy Tire or PartSource are not so cheap.
But motocycle mirrors, that is s.m.r.t.!!! :D
Thanks for the tip!
Cheers
Chrs
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A-HA! Thats what I am looking for, the "cheap replacement" mirros from Crappy Tire or PartSource are not so cheap.
Just FYI, Canadian Tire carries several cheap plastic motorcycle mirrors. Square or round for YJs or TJs. They are in the motorcycle/ATV section.
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Just FYI, Canadian Tire carries several cheap plastic motorcycle mirrors. Square or round for YJs or TJs. They are in the motorcycle/ATV section.
Thanks for the tip! :D
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I think I'd better go pick up a set as well.
Thanks for the info.
Kris
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Unless its raining or its below 10 degrees I usually have no doors. Never been stopped, never been look at by the cops in over 3 years. It surprises me as I usually don't run my fugly mud flaps either.
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I've never had a problem in 10yrs. Then again, I don't bring attention to myself. My wife met the head traffic officer here in Lethbridge. She asked him about mirrors and was told that they weren't required.
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I've got a set of Genuine Harley mirrors for mine. They were scratched when someone dropped a bike in the show room. They are $100 for the set retail but since they were scratched I talked the guy to $20 cash. We can't all be that lucky. I've seen guys run the mirrors from the bicycle section at CT they are $7.49 each. Product# 73-4218-6 not sure if this link will work. I don't have these but I think they are the ones I've seen others with. http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442155665&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517496&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517540&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396669593&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396669593&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1119366601395
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You do not require side mirrors if the top is off, all that is required is an unobstructed rear view mirror (windshield mounted mirror) if you have your doors off and top on with a rear tinted window, the tinting is considered an obstruction to your windshield mounted mirror. There is nothing that I can find that states you vehicle must have doors in this act.
Taken from the Queen's Printer Website:
Traffic Safety Act
VEHICLE EQUIPMENT REGULATION
Rear view mirror
72(1) A motor vehicle must have a rear view mirror that gives the driver a clear view of the roadway behind the vehicle and of any other vehicle approaching from behind.
(2) If the view in the rear view mirror is obstructed or interfered with in any way, a motor vehicle must have side mirrors on each side that give the driver a clear view of the roadway behind and on each side of the motor vehicle.
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If you wanted to run mirrors full time and still be able to remove the doors, National 4WD sells a set of mirror relocation brackets, (approx 60.00) and I bought a used set of TJ mirrors from Jeepstuff.
They mount on the door post by the upper door hinge, and the TJ mirrors slide right in and bolt on. All you do is remove the original mounting screws from the hinge and install the brackets with the new screws. Its a little tough to get to the nuts on the backs of the screws, but with some patience and small hands it can easily be done. If you drill the original screws out and replace them it works great.
This was done on a 93 YJ.
I can email a photo of them if anyone is interested.
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I drove around for a while without side mirrors .. hated it .. I kept looking in the spot where they should have been. In the end I decided it didn't feel safe so I fitted a set.
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Glad I used the search button as I was just going to ask this same question.
So we can drive around with no mirrors but as other people have said it feels kind of odd and unsafe not having them there.
Think I will hit up Crappy Tire and see what they have in stock.
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YJ's have the mirrors on the doors right from the factory. I'm sure Jeep would have designed them to meet Canadian laws and since the doors are designed to be removed it must be legal.
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I drive All the time without doors or side mirrors or top. pulled up by cops lots of time. they never bothered me yet.
I think its more if your jeep is all dirty or jeep looks like crap then they may pay attention to you.
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Anyone have any luck finding something like "Fit System Wide Angle 4-1/2"x6" Blind Spot Clamp-On Mirror by K-Source" ?? at Canadian tire or anywhere else ?
I saw some Fit system stuff in the Canadian tire in Airdrie but not the one shown in that article.
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Rules applicable to no doors, side mirrors, and windshield folded:
So if I read this correctly A door would be required, a windshield not folded down, and a rear view mirror. The door you might be able to contest and win. My advice, don't drive in such a way to attract the attention of the police, print a copy of the rules from the queens printer site above and stick it in your folder with your registration. Better to reason and show the cop you have done your homework and not get the ticket than to get the ticket and take time off work to fight it. If you show the cop politely that you know what the rules are you will probably not get a ticket. Cops can be reasoned with. I was pulled over the other night while on a test drive of a new car. Doing 101 in a 80 zone, no ticket for me!!!
:oops:
http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/documents/Regs/2002_322.cfm?frm_isbn=0779717090
67(1) A hinged door on a motor vehicle that leads directly to a driver’s seat or a passenger seat must have a door latch and striker assembly that has a fully latched closed position and a secondary latched closed position.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a cargo door, sliding door, rolling door or folding door or to a 2?part door that closes by one part latching to the other part.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a motor vehicle manufactured before January 1, 1971.
Windshield
68 A motor vehicle, other than a motor cycle or moped, must have a windshield.
Rear view mirror
72(1) A motor vehicle must have a rear view mirror that gives the driver a clear view of the roadway behind the vehicle and of any other vehicle approaching from behind.
(2) If the view in the rear view mirror is obstructed or interfered with in any way, a motor vehicle must have side mirrors on each side that give the driver a clear view of the roadway behind and on each side of the motor vehicle.
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I did the mod that APEX linked to on the first page and just mounted a drivers side mirror to the hinge. I got that same mirror at PA for 11 bucks. Works great but does viberate a little, just like everything else I guess so that would be considered normal :)
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hehe i have a windshield, but doesn't specifically say it must be in the upright position.... anyhoo bugs in teeth no thanks, i'll keep it up.
been driving a few weeks with no top, doors or mirrors. once a cop did look but that's all. i'll print something and keep it in the glove box perhaps.
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Tank posted up an idea on the ejc site
using mirrors out of the bicycle section of Canadian tire
http://www.edmontonjeep.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1432
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Wonderfull thread!! - anythoughts on mirrors for the new JK?
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I never thought of it as being a problem , and it sounds like if top down than the
windshield rear would suffice, but it is nice having something there by habit of
looking ... so I picked this up at cdn tire for 8$ , just added another lock washer
and cinched the two supplied nuts together ...
doesnt look 1/2 bad in my opinion ... have to be a real stickler to find fault with it ...
(http://www.msc-inc.ca/maclean_20050801/yj_mirror_front.jpg)
(http://www.msc-inc.ca/maclean_20050801/yj_mirror_rear.jpg)
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Those are the ones I suggested the TribalJeep dude get... how do you like them?
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yeah thats where I got the idea off the forum discussion ...
they would be a tad small if looking through a greasy/wet window
but without doors they seem to provide adeqate early warning coverage
I added the additional lockwasher as first attempt didnt hold it tight
, used this combo with success :
- additional flat washer
- lock washer supplied
- 1/2 nut supplied
- additional lock washer
- 9/16 nut supplied
its nice having it there as thats where I always look first ...
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Rules applicable to no doors, side mirrors, and windshield folded:
So if I read this correctly A door would be required, a windshield not folded down, and a rear view mirror. The door you might be able to contest and win.
67(1) A hinged door on a motor vehicle that leads directly to a driver’s seat or a passenger seat must have a door latch and striker assembly that has a fully latched closed position and a secondary latched closed position.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a cargo door, sliding door, rolling door or folding door or to a 2?part door that closes by one part latching to the other part.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a motor vehicle manufactured before January 1, 1971.
Had an educational discussion with a cop here in Leduc regarding doors, and side mirrors. Based on his comments doors on vehicles come as standard equipment are required equipment as they are a safety feature of the vehicle designed to keep the occupants of the vehicle froming becoming flying debris during an accident (makes sense when you think about it). He suggested at the very least a good set of tube doors or half doors - something to keep body parts in the vehicle. Your seat belt will keep you in your seat but the force of the impact would cause legs/feet/arms to flail outside of the tub and become potential road hamburger!
Windshield
68 A motor vehicle, other than a motor cycle or moped, must have a windshield.
Rear view mirror
(2) If the view in the rear view mirror is obstructed or interfered with in any way, a motor vehicle must have side mirrors on each side that give the driver a clear view of the roadway behind and on each side of the motor vehicle.
At the time I wa pulled over I was using the "Canadian Tire" special mirrors (the little bike mirrors that Tank had suggested)...again no good. The mirrors are to deemed to small and they do not offer the same degree of visual awareness as factory equipment. We talked about mirror relocation brackets and he figured they'd work prefectly because you'd still be using factory equipment. Never thought to ask about motorcycle mirrors but I'd assume that if they are smaller than your current stock mirrors you may in fact run into the same "size" issue.
If you show the cop politely that you know what the rules are you will probably not get a ticket. Cops can be reasoned with.
Talked with the cop for nearly an hour about the highway traffic. I'd throw out a question and my interpretation and he'd through out his - we talked mirrors, flares, flaps, and lift kits. After all was said and done he asked me to go home and get the doors back on, but I managed to avoid the cumulative stack of tickets for equipment. So be nice, ask questions and give honest answers - it saved my wallet! ;)
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I'm ok with one windshield mounted mirror as no top on is about as unobstructed as you can get ...
as for doors, my case would be around what section 67(1) is trying to address - dont build doors that fly open as thats just plain dangerous - hopefully the judge agree's that I am way more likely to fall out of a jeep with doors that dont latch than a jeep with no doors ... ;)
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Had an educational discussion with a cop here in Leduc regarding doors, and side mirrors. Based on his comments doors on vehicles come as standard equipment are required equipment as they are a safety feature of the vehicle ...
Funny there is a decal on my Jeep that clearly states ... the roof and doors of this vehicle are NOT designed to protect the passengers in an accident. I'll take a picture of it... it's quite funny.
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+1 on the Harley Mirrors, fits like a dream and very easy to put on/off.
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been really enjoying the jeep last couple of days doorless ...
and I'm not the only one ...
(http://www.msc-inc.ca/maclean_20050801/cjnodoors.jpg)