Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Dirt Addiction on January 26, 2012, 02:12:49 PM
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I would like to get an on-board air system. Anyone know of a way to do this for under $200.00?
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I know there is a way to do it by tapping into your stock air compressor (rubicons), and is a matter of rigging in a reserve tank and a few lines... but I dont know much more than that, I am going to be looking into this in more detail soon as I would like to add this option to my rubi.
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This is my writeup on what i hooked up...
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=21332.0
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I know there is a way to do it by tapping into your stock air compressor (rubicons), and is a matter of rigging in a reserve tank and a few lines... but I dont know much more than that, I am going to be looking into this in more detail soon as I would like to add this option to my rubi.
Don't those pumps only put out about 3Psi ?
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you will have to gut your AC system to do it under 200$
it can be done though.
or just go buy an ARB compressor. bolt in and go.
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or just go buy an ARB compressor. bolt in and go.
are there any benefits to going with an ARB compressor vs the Warn Power plant winches??
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Don't those pumps only put out about 3Psi ?
The Sanden 7 series which I have puts out about 9 when converted. At least this is the general consensus... They were never spec'ed to do this so its not really posted information thats easily found :)
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are there any benefits to going with an ARB compressor vs the Warn Power plant winches??
I've had a couple friends run the power plant winches now and they weren't too impressed with them.. Just too much stuffed into one unit I guess?
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I've had a couple friends run the power plant winches now and they weren't too impressed with them.. Just too much stuffed into one unit I guess?
yea thats what I figured.
This is my writeup on what i hooked up...
http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=21332.0
that sir, is a sick set up, but a little past my skill level I think...
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Just for tires or tools too?. I got a Viair 400h for about 220. Perfect for tires and less then an hour to install. Add a tank later on to run tools if you want.... but IMO these setups are pretty well pointless for running air tools no matter how good they are.
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that sir, is a sick set up, but a little past my skill level I think...
Honestly not that hard! If you want a hand or have questions let me know. im free to answer as best I can. Just will be movin to Red Deer in the next couple weeks so wrench time will be limited...
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The ARB is a slick little setup.
It's a little more then $200, but it comes with everything you need. I'm sure Stan will give you a discount as well.
http://www.northridge4x4.ca/proddetail.php?prod=ARB-PKG_JK_AIR
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Honestly not that hard! If you want a hand or have questions let me know. im free to answer as best I can. Just will be movin to Red Deer in the next couple weeks so wrench time will be limited...
I have an air tank...I may con you into coming over to help me set something up one of these days. :)
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I did something very similar to what TL-Iguana did. at first a ran a external oiler, then switched over to a grease-able set up.
here is my build http://forum.calgaryjeep.com/index.php?topic=16374.0 . You are going to have to look over the first set up and second to see the whole thing.
What are you wanting to do with the set up? unless you are willing to lose a/c or shell out the cash for a engine driven pump, you are going to be in the same boat as just getting the ARB or one of the other guys that are building the same thing. If the only resin is to run air tools, I have never used air tools on the trail. and to change a tire, you can spin the nuts off faster with a tier wrench . Kevin runs 2 sets of wheel, one street and one trail and changes in camp but he still uses the ARB. and if it is a setup to reseat a bead you can get a ARB, and a small CT pig and change it to be a reservoir for the air blast.
There is a lot of options and it comes down to what you are looking to do with the set up and how much cash you want to spend.
BTW a A/C conversion without already having tanks will set you back just over $200 budget for $300 to be safe. Brass firings and steal braded hose is not cheap even at PA. it all adds up in a hurry.
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are there any benefits to going with an ARB compressor vs the Warn Power plant winches??
i had a powerplant .. good strong but they do have issues .. so try to stay away from them
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Did my A/C conversion for less then $100. . Needing steel braided lines and special fittings is bs. normal air hose with push on barbs will do just fine. Princess auto sells pressure switchs for like $30. only other thing u need is a releif valve and a tank. Get creative with your tank, I used a nitrous bottle i found at a swap meet. 10 lbs propane bottle would be cool too, then it could double as a portable tank. I'm just cheap though, and cheap makes you creative.
I can air up a 38 for 2 to 18 in less then 90 seconds. I have 120 psi for air tools or any thing i want. ARB cant do that.
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now I remember why I don't come in these sections an any site. someone always dose it bigger and better or cheaper or outright thinks what one person says it garbage.
That is how I did mine and I have built a couple more for other people and all are still working with no issues ever and no one complaned.
I built mine over 2 years ago and all I have done is burn out one compressor and that was I own fault for not cheeking the oilier before I left for the trail. That s why I switched to grease .
Luke you did yours for under a hundred I have over a hundred in my tank alone. $50 each pulse tax right form viare. pulse a liquid filled gage,one way check valve, 175 safety valve and so on, it did not take long to add up.
buddy build it that way that you are comfortable with it and happy the way it works.
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Arron I never said mine was better than you or that yours didn't work. I mearly stated that there are ways to do thing cheap and still make them work properly. Don't think for a second that safty or function takes a back seat to cost. Cost of my install still includes a check vavle, guage, blow off vavle and all the fixins.
All I'm gettin at is if you do some looking around and use your mind instead of you wallet, you can still have money left over for something to drink while u put it all together
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My issue is from you saying you need steal braded line and special fittings is BS. that is the way I did mine and I was telling buddy if he goes that rout it is going to cost. I run my supply line under the rig exposed to everything. that is why I went with the still braded so it would take the punishment. I have it the way I like it.
I did use my head, and the way I set things up in my rig coast a little cash the tanks are the only ones I couple find at the time that mounted the way I wanted. I personally don't have as much in mine as I say to budget for because I acquired stuff along the way over about 8 months. I build the same system I have for a guy last winter and had over $250 into the parts but that was getting everything over a couple days instead of months.
I also gave a suggestion that would have him under $100 if he watches PA and CT sale flyer.
Dirt Addiction do it the way that makes you happy.
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...
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did mine with a hydraulic hose custom made from princess auto because regular lines would explode from heat. prob cost $150 total with new longer fanbelt and pump from the wreckers. i use it to run my arb's also and have a little 2 or 3 litre tank attached.
saving a few bucks here and there didn't work as well as I thought. i am using an oiler but might research the grease nipple idea.
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AL, are you using a over sized hose as a tank?
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I have an air tank...I may con you into coming over to help me set something up one of these days. :)
No Problem at all Dan! I would be happy to help plumb.
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Call Stan at northridge for a power tank and be done with it.
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AL, are you using a over sized hose as a tank?
just 3/8 line and fittings. i also drilled out the air hole in the back of the compressor. i use an arb 90psi cutoff switch i got on ebay to shut the compressor off when not in use, this keeps everything running a lot cooler as the system doesn't run unless i am pumping air into something.
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The Sanden 7 series which I have puts out about 9 when converted.
You're talking CFM, I hope.
It's a A/C compressor..... I have seen those ones put out well over 275psi.
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You're talking CFM, I hope.
It's a A/C compressor..... I have seen those ones put out well over 275psi.
Yes, sorry Trevor. 9cfm :)
Take just over a minute to fill 5 gallons to 120psi.
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Has anyone used any other type of compressor besides a York or a Sanden compressor? I have one sitting in my garage from an old pink Mark Kay Cadillac (another story), and I'm sure it's not either of those two.
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Has anyone used any other type of compressor besides a York or a Sanden compressor? I have one sitting in my garage from an old pink Mark Kay Cadillac (another story), and I'm sure it's not either of those two.
Well I really want to hear that story ;D
What year caddy?
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Theoretically any a/c compressor can be converted to pump air. Just a matter of lubing it while its running. What is the brand you got Darcy.
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Well I really want to hear that story ;D
What year caddy?
It was an 81 Caddy. Bought it in Thorsby, for the Buick 4.1 V6 engine. Plush carpet throughout, but had been beat up too much to restore (backed into, etc).
Had to drive it back.....felt like a big comfy plush couch, and drove like a sportscar. :)
Luke - it's a big azz Harrison 365....that's all I know about it.
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WOW! Some aweome advice in here but it looks like I would be biting off more than I'm willing to chew. I think I will hold off until I can get the ARB compressor.
Thanks for all the advice and feedback everyone.
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The power tank is simpler and more effective then any other oba out there. Only down side is having it filled, but you can fill 35's over a dozen times on one tank. You shouldn't have to fill one more then once a season. Filling them is about 60$.
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The power tank is simpler and more effective then any other oba out there. Only down side is having it filled, but you can fill 35's over a dozen times on one tank. You shouldn't have to fill one more then once a season. Filling them is about 60$.
My tank cost more then my OBA setup initially, and recurring costs versus zero for my Viair. Tank took up precious space, OBA uses zero(under hood). Power tank required me to not be lazy and get it filled. Viair doesnt care, will fill hundreds and hundreds of 35s before it craps out.
Some may find the OBA simpler and more effective :)
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I've run almost a dozen viar compressors. I have dual viar's and dual tanks on my TJ. I find Viar setups to be expensive, and extremely slow. Even with the 2 largest compressors they have and five gallons at 200 psi it takes me longer to fill 1 38" tire with the viar then it does for me to fill all 4 using my tank.
Viars are susceptable to elements and will crap the bed when they get dirty. I've killed a couple, and had a couple in my shop that died.
Viars do die with excessive usuage.
Without a tank viars are PAINFULLY slow. With that said, I dont see the point about a power tank taking up space. Its the same size as the 5g viar tank that comes in their kits.
I used viars almost exclusively for about 7 years. Had a powertank for 2 now and would never look back.
Sell your tank yet?
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I dont run a tank, just the compressor under the hood. So ya... saves a lot of room over my old power tank. I sold that tank when I picked up my current compressor... about 4 years ago. Still have my old one in the YJ, going almost 8 years without a single issue. I was filling my tank about twice a year... enough to buy 4 of my Viairs over the years if I didnt switch. I can air up 8 33s in less then 15 minutes. Not as quick as my power tank, but its more reliable and I ALWAYS have air so Ill live with it.
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Another option is the Extremeaire, although a bit more expensive.
I don't run a tank, just a little bigger then a vair 450, and has been problem free for the past 7yrs. Suites me fine for airing up and the occationally use it to reseat a bead.
(http://www.extremeoutback.com/admin/store/products/medium/extremeaire_magnum_14.jpg)
Specs:
-1.5 HP Motor
-95 amps @ 12.5 Volts DC
-Continuous Duty @ 150 psi
-6 CFM @ 0 psi
-2.6 CFM @ 100 psi
-Weight: 20 lbs.
-Dimensions: 16" long x 6" wide x 9.5" tall
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I can air up 8 33s in less then 15 minutes.
I guess it would work for you if you arent really airing down. The biggest viar out there takes almost 15 minutes to take one 33 from 4lbs to 20-24lb. But if all you are doing is 12-15lbs up to 20 or so then yeah, it might be alright.
Which by the way if you arent airing down below 8, there is literally no point in airing down at all. If the tire doesnt fold, there's no noticeable gain in performance.
You're looking at about 700$ for my big viar setup and it cant do 4 33's in 15 minutes if really aired down. Let alone 8.
So I guess it depends on your application, but it should be made clear that viar's are definately very slow. Same as those ARB pumps that claim they do tires.
Also if you have multiple rigs, a tow rig, or ride shot gun with friends who dont have air, the portability of the powertank is nice.
The ability to run tools is also nice, but it will eat up your tank.
I disagree with the reliability statement. Just because your's has been reliable, doesnt make an electrical compressor more reliable then a tank and certainly not simpler by any means.
It doesnt get simpler or more reliable then a tank. There's no moving parts or electrical.
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Another option is the Extremeaire, although a bit more expensive.
I don't run a tank, just a little bigger then a vair 450, and has been problem free for the past 7yrs. Suites me fine for airing up and the occationally use it to reseat a bead.
(http://www.extremeoutback.com/admin/store/products/medium/extremeaire_magnum_14.jpg)
Specs:
-1.5 HP Motor
-95 amps @ 12.5 Volts DC
-Continuous Duty @ 150 psi
-6 CFM @ 0 psi
-2.6 CFM @ 100 psi
-Weight: 20 lbs.
-Dimensions: 16" long x 6" wide x 9.5" tall
Thats a good inbetween compressor. Its almost as fast as my dual viars. The only reason I fill his 4th tire is because I tanks charged at 200psi.
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The ARB's have a built-in pressure switch. So you can connect your hose, run the compressor, fill your tires, and the compressor will shutoff when you are mucking about in between tires. Saves the hoses.
I've run a single viair, and I have to be careful when I'm in between tires, the pump will run till the hose blows. So I have to keep the trigger and vent depressed on my stem connection device.
My dual viair setup is nearly complete, just need to mount and plumb and connect to my already installed harness. I've built a storage tank of custom dimensions to fit someplace interesting.
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The ARB's have a built-in pressure switch. So you can connect your hose, run the compressor, fill your tires, and the compressor will shutoff when you are mucking about in between tires. Saves the hoses.
I've run a single viair, and I have to be careful when I'm in between tires, the pump will run till the hose blows. So I have to keep the trigger and vent depressed on my stem connection device.
My dual viair setup is nearly complete, just need to mount and plumb and connect to my already installed harness. I've built a storage tank of custom dimensions to fit someplace interesting.
I use open ended tire chucks for airing up.
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The ARB's have a built-in pressure switch. So you can connect your hose, run the compressor, fill your tires, and the compressor will shutoff when you are mucking about in between tires. Saves the hoses.
I've run a single viair, and I have to be careful when I'm in between tires, the pump will run till the hose blows. So I have to keep the trigger and vent depressed on my stem connection device.
My dual viair setup is nearly complete, just need to mount and plumb and connect to my already installed harness. I've built a storage tank of custom dimensions to fit someplace interesting.
Yeah, one reason a tank is nice.
One thing I used to do when I ran a single viar on Denise's rig is on the way out, I would do a tire, then drive while the tank filled, then do another tire.
Using the 2.5g tank at 175 psi I could do a 33 in a minute or two, versus waiting the 10-15 minutes per tire after the first one if I did them all in a row.
Having a tank is good for that type of stuff, and for seating beads.
I cant imagine not having a clamp style chuck with a viar pump. As fun as squatting beside a tire for ten minutes at a time sounds....................no thanks
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Bang for your buck I am seriously looking at this unit
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-A_ACK&Category_Code=A
This air compressor will fill tires faster that any Viair, faster than the Quick Air 1, 2 or 3, and faster than the Extremeaire!
Output: 3.4 CFM at 40psi and 3.0 CFM at 90psi
Dimensions: 18" long X 6" wide X 15" tall
Weight: 28lbs
(http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/22.jpg)
Pretty sure you could probably find the exact same compressor they use on ebay or something for less money, still is convenient though.
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So you have to wonder, how does that comrpessor put out 3 cfm at 90 psi with only drawing 30 amps, and the extreme puts out 2.6 cfm at 100 while drawing 95 amps, and compared to most viars that put out just shy of 2 with about 25 amps.
Do you want to know how? I'll explain. They are all pretty much the same thing with minor variances in sizes and reporting stats. At the end of the day, just get the cheapest one you can find cause they all do the exact same thing which is make a bunch of noise and fill your tires very slowly while you shoot the crap with the guys at the end of a trail run.................lol
At least that ironrock has a wee tank on it and puts out a little more then a big viar.
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My compressor from titan winch in Ontario puts put about the same in cfm drawing 45 amps. And all for about $ 150 cdn. 33 inch tire in just over a minute from trail pressure to highway pressure.
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I'll just get 2 titan compressors and run them in tandem....all for the price of the IRO compressor 8)