Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Drambuie89 on July 08, 2012, 07:44:36 PM
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Hey,
I have a 2006 TJ Sport with the "tow" Package
So specs:
D30 Front,
D44 Rear,
Running 31" TrXus MTs
3.73s in the diffs
NSG370 6 speed Tranny
Stock NV231 T-case
I've saved up enough to purchase and install a locker but I would like to get some opinions on which axle to do first; Front or Rear.
I'm looking at either an e-locker or an ARB for my choices. I'm partial to the ARB because of the York compressor sitting in my garage I plan to install over the next month or so. This Jeep is my daily driver so I am cautious of detroits, or any lunchbox lockers etc. I like the open when not locked idea!
Thanks everyone :)
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if you plan on keeping the 30 in the front Lock it. Your front tires will pull you up most obstacles. and you limited slip in the back will do for now. I always recommend locking the front first.
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Going up a hill the rear is most advantageous as more weight sits on the rear, on level-ish ground I don't think there is much of a difference. I'd probably do the rear first, but do both. I locked the front first it made a big difference..can't go wrong either way.
Whatever you choose I like the E-Locker . No messing around with compressors or airlines and dealing with leaks etc. Just a wire that runs to the diff. The D30 design for the E-locker is fantastic and even the D44 is good. I have the D44 E-locker and no regrets.
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Rear locker all the way. You have the strength in the 44 to lock it and not have to worry about it shearing shafts or spitting u joints..jandh needs a reality check. Figure out if you wanna fix a tossed salad d30 on the trail or run in 2wheel drive over stuff with your rear locker.
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locking the rear would take more abuse and hold up better than locking the front. When you lock the front you come into binding issues at full steering lock and that just spells bad news. IF the money is there, lock the 44, be hard pressed to break that. If you are keeping the 30 front i would go with a limited slip to help things along but not be so aggressive you crow hop or have steering issues.
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Lock the rear. For two reasons:
#1. It's a 44 - you're less likely to swap it out when you get silly and start running bigger tires.
#2. Most of the time that you want lockers, you're trying to climb something. That implies going UP a hill/obstacle. When you're going up, there's more weight on your rear tires...so the rear locker will help you out more than a front locker in the same situation.
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front ..
if your front tires climb up then your rear will fallow
if u lock the rear and the front cant climb then the rear will just keep pushing and the front will still not climb
somone mentioned going up a hill blah blah blah if your weight is on the rear good chances both tires will be loaded with that weight so youll have power to both tires
lock the front its the smarter choice
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front ..
if your front tires climb up then your rear will fallow
if u lock the rear and the front cant climb then the rear will just keep pushing and the front will still not climb
somone mentioned going up a hill blah blah blah if your weight is on the rear good chances both tires will be loaded with that weight so youll have power to both tires
lock the front its the smarter choice
if it doens't grenade ;)
if your fronts have traction and your rears don't you are putting added strain on the front diff. a D30..... a low pinion 30. because the rear cannot push the front end up and over and the rear is now pulling the whole jeep intead of pushing.
so you will be asking your front end, on the weaker axle to 'pull' instead of push over an obstacle. bring spare shafts..............
so, that said, D44 rear locker hands down. lock the stronger axle..............
apeman is right. rear locker, you can go in 2wd further than most open diffed rigs..............
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Lets keep in mind where we use lockers. When there is an unequal amount of traction on the drive wheels where you want an equal amount. (technically speaking its always equal to the lowest value, a locker just makes that value much higher). Most often when you are in those situations you are looking to push your way through, not pull yourself. A front locker is obviously a VERY nice option to have. But for your particular set up, you are better spent spending it on the rear. the front locker can come with a front D44. Anyone on here who recommends building up and locking your D30 versus upgrading to a D44 should be taken out back and beaten with a large piece of rad hose.
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D30 is fine locked...until you go to 35" tires then Chromo it and its fine
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Before you get too much bad advice, I'll bring your attention to something interesting. Jrama was onace one of the "lock the front and pull yourself over the obstacle" crowd. He's tried it. AS a result of having tried it, he's now giving you sound advice...which is to lock the rear axle first.
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Rear for sure. A locked front is hellish to turn. And as the guys mentioned, the D44 is much stronger. Reliability and steerability all the way!
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The D30 is the weak link (as compared to the D44). Weld the spider gears in the D30. Not only will this help pull yourself over obstacles, but it will strengthen the weaker D30 (it will be more like one solid axle shaft). That, and you'll get the "cool factor" chirping when you take tight corners.
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The D30 is the weak link (as compared to the D44). Weld the spider gears in the D30. Not only will this help pull yourself over obstacles, but it will strengthen the weaker D30 (it will be more like one solid axle shaft). That, and you'll get the "cool factor" chirping when you take tight corners.
Weld the front diff like this?
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/43978/2059412130104836601S425x425Q85.jpg)
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Weld the front diff like this?
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/43978/2059412130104836601S425x425Q85.jpg)
haha I would have loved the here the explanation from that guy.
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That was an epic thread. lol
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From having both axles locked, I would recommend the rear first. I find my rear lock much more useful in all types of wheeling and only really use my front locker in the real techinical stuff. The front locker does add a lot more stress to the front end and will make it harder to turn. Plus you need to be careful if you need to do a lot of tight turning while locked because something will eventually give and that happened to me (spat out a u-joint cap).
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If u got the money for an e lock or arb I would put one on those in the front so u can unlock it, then just go get a spartan for the 44 for 350 bucks
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Do the rear, I have broken axles and driveshafts on the trail and can tell you that its a LOT more difficult to drive out on just the front than it is the rear. Out vehicles were designed primarly as rear wheel drive vehicles. That is where the majority of your traction comes from and where your beefiest axle is.
Once you have a selectable locker in the front(with the back already locked) you will be surprised how little you actually use it and how often you cann't use it do to it screwing up your steering.
Going with a lunch box in the back and saving for a front selectable is not a bad idea. I've found that with an automatic tranny most auto lockers are almost invisible in the rear. Manual tranny seem to be more clunky/chirpy/grabby.
Like anything in the driveline, lockers(of any kind) don't like high speed wheel spins. If you're not getting traction shut it down and try something else, your drivline will thank you.
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Oh and E-locker for the win. Seen too many, busted/cracked/ frozen air lines, overheated compressors and leaking seals to ever consider buying an ARB.
I tore the wiring for my e-locker once in Moab and had it fixed in 15min.
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I agree on locking the rear first. Also I would go with the E Locker...theres a reason the manufacturer doesn't use an air locker when they come from the factory.
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Anyone running a spool in the c8.25? I have an aussie in mine and it is failing...clunking and unloading while driving on the road... thinking of yanking it out and spooling or welding it up. Im on 35'
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weld her up jonas, do it!
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How are the teeth on the Aussie looking? Are they worn?
Since the Chief isn't your daily driver any more... weld or spool it :)
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I agree on locking the rear first. Also I would go with the E Locker...theres a reason the manufacturer doesn't use an air locker when they come from the factory.
Sure they did. Never had an issue with em either.
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weld her up jonas, do it!
Hmmmm :)
How are the teeth on the Aussie looking? Are they worn?
Since the Chief isn't your daily driver any more... weld or spool it :)
Teeth look ok, maybe a bit worn on the edges. Otherwise the springs and pins look fine and the locker passes the "spin" test...
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Hmmmm :)
Teeth look ok, maybe a bit worn on the edges. Otherwise the springs and pins look fine and the locker passes the "spin" test...
donno if this will work in your locker, but in my old loc rite, once the teeth were wearing down, we took it out and put it back in the opposite way...... so it was like having brand new teeth!
(so the worn teeth would engage in reverse not forward) i hope this makes sense.
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unless you throwing silver your spartan is fine i would say. mine had seen two axle shafts and a set of gears break and is still going strong. the teeth are sloped from factory, but you are looking for rounded tips of teeth and unusual wear patterns on the side of the tooth.
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Sure they did. Never had an issue with em either.
They did but then switched to electric, must have been issues with them or yet wouldn't have gone electric. Or they
Got a screaming deal on electric lockers and still do.
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I agree on locking the rear first. Also I would go with the E Locker...theres a reason the manufacturer doesn't use an air locker when they come from the factory.
Oh? So you know that reason or is this just speculation?
Chrysler was taking offers for designs for an air actuated locker for their brand new Rubicon. The outsourced locker was from Tochigi Fuji Sangyo as it was the cheapest option . A company from the UK bought the Japanese company and decided to try an electric option in the new JK Rubicons. There is no reason given as to why the change was made to go from air to electric from the new company but online debates are split on failures from both units.
It should also be noted that the ARB is not the same design as a factory Rubi air locker , nor is the Eaton E-locker similar to the GKN factory electric used in the JK.
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Sure they did. Never had an issue with em either.
Lol. That's why they only lasted 3 years............
I have three busted rubicon air lockers in my shop. Of all the rubi's I've worked on regularly over the years only a couple have made it without significant locker issues. And that's because they don't get wheeled.
ARB's are just as bad. They are stronger then rubi lockers but tend to have issues with reliability.
Personally I prefer mechanical lockers. Keep it simple and low maintenance.
Jonas, pretty sure you can't spool a c-clip axle without eliminating the clips. Unless someone makes a fancy spool with c-clip provisions. But I think you'd call that a Detroit.
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Just stating that the manufacturer previously used air and now uses electric. That reason might have been failure, cost, proven reliability or other reasons as you have pointed out.
Now back to the reason for the post. What are you leaning towards Jason? Front or Rear, Air or Electric?
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Lol was lol just sayin lol that lol they lol did lol make lol em lol and lol that lol mine lol have lol no lol problems lol ;)
That does NOT translate to "Factory lockers only come in air! And they kick @ss compared to the rest of the lockers out there fml omg and FTW!"
Unless your a helmet kid OR perhaps an overly emotional woman during her special time who just can't help twisting everything that's said and acting like a fat kid stole her last French fry.
Again, what I said was the factory made em in air as well, and MINE (singular) have performed well for me.
Hate how sh!t gets so twisted in this place.
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So your response is be a prick and start patronizing?
Drink bleach bunghole.
All I ever see you do around here is run your mouth to people yet the only thing you have contructive to add is "I run this and it's great" shut the frack up fag.
No one cares what your fat arse runs and how excellently it's performed on 101 trails for the last how ever many years.
What, did you think because you posses a checkbook and a rubicon it's an automatic pass for you to come here and act like a prick?
Back off lard arse. Resident prick is my job and it took me ten years to earn that right.
So crawl back into whatever hole you crawled out of. And until you have more to add then "my stuff is awesome"...... Shut the frack up.
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Sorry, ain't fat, never ran the 101, and go find me one post where I said my sh!ts the the best. Also have never written a cheque in my life. Go try and play swords with some other guy. Runnin your mouth like a school yard kid all hopped up on sugar... Gimme a break. All I asked was simply READ what was written instead of gettin all emotional about it. Instead you act like a dunk and hurt my feeling, uh no... That was just gas, carry on... Resident Prick.
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......
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Sand, meet Vagina.
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No that isn't all you said with your little patronizing lol fest. Think you can talk to me like I'm a retard and I'm sposed reply with " uh huh, okie doke big guy"
Go frack yourself douchebag. Like most everyone else around here I've read enough of your patronizing crap that now it's just old.
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oh seriously... Go get a hug or something. I'll admit the over usage of lols was abit much, but it drives me nuts when people don't READ what was written and reply to what they THINK they heard. I won't take no offense to doucebag or the other crap ya spew, quite surprised by it all actually, but whatever, your issues not mine, happy trails man, cheers.
Its quite patronizing to help install lifts and hand out free parts in between spending hours on the trail fixing driveshafts, fuel pumps and yardin people out... What a real patronizing doucebag. Speak for yourself cause all the members and non members I've met and wheeled with are kickass people. The tone you've set for my words, isn't correct, so just please READ what is written.
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Wheres the little smiley eating popcorn when you need him :D
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/4490b23f-a200-4a2c.jpg)
You think this ones good you should log onto the JK Forum and search the topic "Is there a God?"
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donno if this will work in your locker, but in my old loc rite, once the teeth were wearing down, we took it out and put it back in the opposite way...... so it was like having brand new teeth!
(so the worn teeth would engage in reverse not forward) i hope this makes sense.
Hmmm, that may work with my aussie but I'd hate to do all that and have it not work... I wanna go wheelin' this weekend!! 8)
Im really contemplating throwing those spiders back in and welding it up... it's true I cant do a spool cause of the Cclips...I learned something today.
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Hmmm, that may work with my aussie but I'd hate to do all that and have it not work... I wanna go wheelin' this weekend!! 8)
Im really contemplating throwing those spiders back in and welding it up... it's true I cant do a spool cause of the Cclips...I learned something today.
do you have your old install instructions jonas? if the locker was NOT side specific you shoudl be able to do it........... :)
or frack it, weld'r up solid lol.
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A lot of people bring up reliability issues with ARBs but I have had ARBs in my Jeep for almost 10 years now and I have never had an issue. If they are properly installed they will be trouble free
Plus you get the added bonus of an air compressor, although not great, still can fill tires
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A lot of people bring up reliability issues with ARBs but I have had ARBs in my Jeep for almost 10 years now and I have never had an issue. If they are properly installed they will be trouble free
Plus you get the added bonus of an air compressor, although not great, still can fill tires
Its not just the install Scott. There's a few factors that seperate you from the "typical" user.
You are meticulous with maintenance. ARB's require top notch maintenance, specially around here where mud and silt are ever present. Left unattended for long the mud and silt around here quickly takes out the oring seals.
You arent crazy about mud. Coupled with good maintenance, you have a good chance of maintaining good reliability with your lockers.
Lastly, you dont wheel often, you've stayed on 33's, and you've always been easy on your pedal. Essentially your lockers see little abuse.
In a nutshell, you and your application are perfect for ARB's. Trust me when I say, not everyone falls into that category. Like the failed ARB I just pulled last week that was covered in rust because the rig was parked with a diff full of water.
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Its not just the install Scott. There's a few factors that seperate you from the "typical" user.
You are meticulous with maintenance. ARB's require top notch maintenance, specially around here where mud and silt are ever present. Left unattended for long the mud and silt around here quickly takes out the oring seals.
You arent crazy about mud. Coupled with good maintenance, you have a good chance of maintaining good reliability with your lockers.
Lastly, you dont wheel often, you've stayed on 33's, and you've always been easy on your pedal. Essentially your lockers see little abuse.
In a nutshell, you and your application are perfect for ARB's. Trust me when I say, not everyone falls into that category. Like the failed ARB I just pulled last week that was covered in rust because the rig was parked with a diff full of water.
True enough about not seeing much use / abuse in the last few years, but they did see a lot of use and mud/muskeg when the Jamborees were happening. I will also agree that maintenance is key to longetivity. Now I need to go change my diff oil ;)
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Thanks for all the great replies! A whole bunch of different opinions and thankfully many explanations for them. Education obtained: Decision made.
:)
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Thanks for all the great replies! A whole bunch of different opinions and thankfully many explanations for them. Education obtained: Decision made.
:)
let us know good sir!