When do I get my money?

[HappyTheJeepMan]

OK now I hear in the news that D/C is trying to hold our government hostage over 9500 Canadian jobs!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/03/11/chrysler-plant-closures-concessions.html

Does not make me want to shoot them $35K for a new 4 door soccer mom wrangler unlimited...corksoakers.

P.S. one dealer would give me 0% financing on a 2008 wrangler (no rebates)...steep payments but hey, they stepped up 

[JackstandJohnny]

i heard that Alberta is going to lose at least 15000 oil jobs......... now... if i do my simpleton math right,  we have roughly what? 4 million people in alberta? and we lost 15000 jobs.   NOW between chrysler and GM they could lose 19500 jobs.... Ontario population?  10 million. so extrapolate that number for alberta and we'd have close to 37500 jobs lost (if our population was the same) 

now, they wanna pump what? 8 billion into the automakers?   again, an equivalent in alberta (to jobs lost etc)  would be maybe 13-14 billion....

whats my point? i don't have one.  i guess, if they will prop up ontario to build cars people won't buy, why can't we be propped up to drill holes that won't produce?

i could use some bailout

[Rubi03 jef]

i was working up north .. and most of our work as abandonments . shutting hole that have no produced in years .. out of the 18 rigs in the area i was working only 1 was a drilling rig the rest service .

i realy dont understand the hole reasoning behind putting so much money into abondonments but i guess someone somewhere said it must be done so lets waste money on it

[HappyTheJeepMan]

I like Fords idea:

Ford Canada makes pitch for incentives over bailout

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090310.AUTOS10/TPStory/Business

He urged the government to introduce a "scrappage" program that would provide consumers with a $3,500 payment when they trade in a vehicle at least 11 years old and buy a new one. About 35 per cent of Canadian vehicles on the road are at least 11 years old, he said, and estimated the program could result in the sale of 100,000 new cars and light trucks.

MONEY TO THE PEOPLE...NOT THE CROOKS!!!

I have a couple beaters I could turn in for a $3500 down payment 

[esi]

I herd that the gm union suckered GM into paying half the lawyer fees if the worker got divorced. The government should let the automakers go tits up and then the unions would go with them. The automakers could be reset up the way westjet is in a worker owned format with shares and such, and maybe instead of overpaid brat workers, they might end up with workers that work and a company that could support its self.  Just my thoughts on the issue.

[JackstandJohnny]

u guys are totally right. i would in a heart beat buy a 100 dollar XJ drive it in and take the rebate.  this is a much more feasible option than throwing money at GM. GM is a money pit. continuing to produce cars will not save the company.  increasing sales will save the company.  teh gov't sponsored programs such as the scrappage fee would be great incentive to buy new. even better would be the fact that we'd be getting a lot of older vehicles off the road as well, specially older models that aren't as emissions friendly. 

who knows, then maybe people will stop thinking their 94 grand cherokee with 300k is worth 3500$ and just scrap it

esi..... what u describe would be the best thing that could happen, both from a labour side and an economics side.  people would work harder, and company would profit.  pensions, bless their heart, are a drain on companies (just look at the auto sector)  but share ownership/profit sharing and insvestment matching will profit both the company and workers. instead of a yearly pension, workers would have large nest eggs in the form of RRSPs.........

[fug]

who knows, then maybe people will stop thinking their 94 grand cherokee with 300k is worth 3500$ and just scrap it

Thats EXACTLY what a program as described would do... raise the price of all beaters to $3500 cause thats what its worth off a brand new car.

I have a HUGE problem with these types of incentives and I could rant for hours about them but I'll restrain myself at this point.  I will however leave you with this question... What produces more emissions... manufacturing a new "fuel efficient eco friendly" vehicle or maintaining an already built vehicle over the course of 15-20 years?

I don't know about you.. but I want access to old CJ's still.

[dunl]

So let's fug has 8 jeep "beaters" worth $3500 each (sorry fug, we both know they're not, just using you as an example.... )....

How many new vehicles do you think he can buy for each one that he trades in? Unless he's rolling in it, I assume that most people will only be purchasing ONE new vehicle....especially as the price of a new vehicle is going to be at least $3500 more than a second hand vehicle.

And if you're getting $3500 off a new vehicle because they now have your second hand vehicle.....how much more do you think they will be willing to take off? The corporation will supply the incentive, but the dealer is the one who actually makes the deal....I can see this not working at all.

Tell you what - let's let them all go bankrupt, and then we can all buy new vehicles for about $15,000 or less off the lot....no worries about warranty when they are that cheap. 

[HappyTheJeepMan]

Thats EXACTLY what a program as described would do... raise the price of all beaters to $3500 cause thats what its worth off a brand new car.

I have a HUGE problem with these types of incentives and I could rant for hours about them but I'll restrain myself at this point.  I will however leave you with this question... What produces more emissions... manufacturing a new "fuel efficient eco friendly" vehicle or maintaining an already built vehicle over the course of 15-20 years?

I don't know about you.. but I want access to old CJ's still.

Goodness no one would turn in a perfectly good CJ...think K-cars and Chevettes bringing in a fine $3500 down payment on one of these funny new plastic wranglers with stability control and (AHHHHHHHHHHH) electric windows.

[dac]

Yup, all three have waaaay too many lines.  Do you want a chevy pick-up or gmc pick-up?  It's the same truck, why do they offer 2?  This goes for most of the models.  That and the options between the lines, again, way too many.  The agreement with the uaw won't do much to fix the problem imho.  I can't see gm living through this.

[Fredduck]

Goodness no one would turn in a perfectly good CJ...think K-cars and Chevettes bringing in a fine $3500 down payment on one of these funny new plastic wranglers with stability control and (AHHHHHHHHHHH) electric windows.

Thats what happened in the early 70's in the states. During the energy crisis people that owned muscle cars were paid more for turning in their hotrods and trading them in for the "new and improved K-cars, pintos and chevettes". They couldn't sell their gas guzzlers so they were trading them in and the car companies were having the cars stomped.

[Vinman]

I wouldn't be too worried about the union workers losing their jobs, I'm sure that a highly skilled guy/gal that installed the left side rearview on the Impala for the past 20 years will have no problems getting a similar paying job once GM shuts down.

On  serious note,  I believe the reason the unions aren't backing down is because they firmly believe (and unfortunately probably correctly) the gov'ment will simply not allow the auto workers to go belly up and put hundreds of thousands of useless twits out of work.

Vince

[hps4evr]

some figure that if the gov't steps up and hands out a few billlion dollarsto each auto company the gov/t would then have controlling shares in said company. the nthe gov't can keep the jobs happening and pay the workers what they feel is necessary. which would be a great idea for the next few years. they could get these companies out of the holes they are in.
but, theres a catch. and a nasty one at that. if this actually happened what would cars be like in 10 years. say bye bye to jeeps. say bye bye to performance cars. say bye bye to trucks.
if the gov't had control over the vehicles being produced we would have very fuel efficient boring vehicles. then they would make us all dress in the same fashion and give us numbers instead of names. we would all be sheep...
                                                                                    ....then again, maybe it all ready happened