towing a cj5 - tires turn the opposite direction?

[kyndrick]

I apologize if this has been covered, i just spent 30 minutes searching the forums and can't find anything on this topic.

back ground:
My fiance just picked me up an 81 cj5 as an early wedding present.  All i know about the jeep right now is that is has the 304 amc v8 (lifters are going, and it leaks out the rear end of it), 4 speed borg warner tranny(not sure the model, just see serial numbers etc), and i'm not sure about the transfer case.  looks like the stock dana 30 front, with amc 20 in the back, I think.  it has 33 inch AT tires, and i believe a 2-3inch shackle drop, don't think the springs are aftermarket, as it don't look like they raise the jeep much.  The tires appear to fit quite nicely (not much tread left however), and when i took it out last weekend i didn't notice any rubbing (and i tested it quite thoroughly).  The sway bar has been removed from the jeep, and it looks like the tie rod is at the shortest length it could be.


I had a friend weld on a hitch assembly on the front bumper so i can tow it with my half ton truck, when we went last weekend I had to drive it out though- which was a brutal ride trying to keep the jeep on the road, it wanted to drift everywhere...   

Anyways, the real issue for this topic is that whenever i try to tow the jeep, 80% of the time when i turned a corner, the jeeps tires would turn the opposite way, and most of the time if i would do light turns, the tires wouldn't turn at all...  its messed up, the only thing i can think of is that perhaps the tie rod is an aftermarket one from when different axles etc were on the jeep in its previous history, and because of this it is toed out?  I also noticed that whenever i turned and the jeeps tires went the opposite way, it looked like it had a negative camber, though that could have been because of all of the presure pulling on the jeep.

just an FYI I'm definitely in the category of I know enough to get me in trouble, so i'm hoping for any advise here on my problem.

I've called modern motors, national 4wd, and folk automotive, and everyone is booked for the next 2 weeks!  is there anyone that could lead me in the right direction, or perhaps a shop i could take it to? My fiance specifically gave me the early present so i could go out this may long...  so i'm willing to do what it takes to get it on the road. I don't feel safe driving it on the highway again, so if i can't figure out this problem that prevents me from towing it, i'll have to sit this weekend out unfortunately.

Thanks!

[Evil-Jeep]

I could be wrong (and more than likely am) but I think that the majority of your problem is the combination of not having a swaybar and how the tow bar is set up. if it is a solid set up what may happen is: as your truck turns the outside rear is going to drop down, this should transfer directly to the jeep and magnify its "lean" to the outside of the turn as well. The end result is a jeep that is trying to zig when you are trying to zag....... the easy soultion is a car dolly that lifts the front tires of the ground.

[newfie]

would it  be wise to hook up the  jeep backwards to the  tow truck and  that way the  front tires would be forced to chase the tow truck ?

or is the kid out to lunch

[Evil-Jeep]

yes, but you would have to have the rear tires raised off the ground in order for it to truely work.

[kyndrick]

You might be bang on Evil-Jeep.  There is a bit of an angle on the tow bar from my truck to the jeep, perhaps i'll buy a higher ball mount to make sure the tow bar is perfecly horizontal.  Are sway bars easy to come by for these cj5's? the previous owner didn't pass it off to us.

The jeep does drive on the highway fairly bad, like any raised surface such as repaired sections on the road and the jeep just goes nuts.  I thought it was just the removed sway bar at first, but when I found out about this towing issue i figured it has to be something else.

Thanks so much for the suggestions!

[hps4evr]

well if the little cj-5 has 33" tires on it and they fit good. and all there is for lift is shackles then what it could be as well is a complete lack of positive caster. shackles are at the front and when you add lonnger ones you turn the axle, or raise the pinion, thus removing whatever caster angle it had. could be a cause. i no nothing about towing though as ive only towed my jeep once, and it was on a trailer.
this lack of caster would would also cause the severe wandering whilst driving on the road.
now, the cure, well lose the long shackles and put in proper lift springs that come with degree shims. or add degree shims. good luck fitting them in the old leaf packs though.

[SOMETHING WICKED]

The problem IS your caster. That and the larger tires.  I have very little on my Jeep now( about 3-5 degrees), and have the same problem. It is compounded by the larger tires.  They have less goung pressure and are less likely to follow. I can flat tow mine if I put smaller tires on. The tow bar has no effect, becuase it hooks to a ball. A sway bar will help on the Jeep. The steering dampner is extremely important as well, so hopfully you have one.

[boggincj7]

Maybe you should check your alignment just so you can eliminate that as a problem if it is good.It should be towed in about 1/8 of an inch. I tow my CJ7 on 36" Iroks with no steering stabalizer and it tows fairly good. You can get it aligned pretty good on your own. Just google.
Also you should get your tow bar as close to level as possible. Hope this helps.

[kyndrick]

Alrighty, so i was able to get it solved!!  It was 100% the caster problem because of the stupid 7inch shackles (which i understand is really a 2 inch lift).  National 4wd was nice enough to take a look at it wednesday afternoon, and then spent a few hours on it yesterday to make some shims for it.  They said the caster was -.8 and with the shims in place put it back to a proper +5.  At first they thought it may have been because the tie rod ends are pretty bad, but i asked if they could measure the caster, and sure enough that was it.  She tows just fine now!

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions!

[cLAY]

FYI, if you run into this problem again(say to want to just tow it home in an emergancy) and its doing this just lock the steering wheel using a piece rope around the steering wheel and then slammed in the door. You will have to "drag" it around the corners but at least you can get where you need to go.

Glad to hear you got it fixed though.