Welded Front Carrier

[4PLAYZJ]

Well I'm ready to get back on the horse and build my zj that's been sitting waiting for 2 years. I'm in the process of ordering parts and I am not sure what to do in the front diff. I plan on hydro assist and I want more than an LSD in the front.  I'm looking for opinions on welding the front carrier or should I pony up the cash for a selectable locker.

[Immortal]

Selectable.
Ice and a welded front.... enough said.

[hps4evr]

How much street driving do you want to do?

[4PLAYZJ]

To and from the trails only. This thing is going to be on tons with 37"-39" tires. The rear is getting welded for sure because a spool for this thing is $1500 and I liked the welded rear end on my last rig. My choices for the front axle are welded, Detroit or arb. Theses are the only lockers available for the AAM 9.25 everything else is a LSD.

[XJHERO]

Just weld it dude and run it like that till it fails. It will be the same as a Detroit and you will have hubs to unlock in the front when needed.
I'd suggest a spool over welding but if it's not available then just weld it and never worrie about it!

[4PLAYZJ]

This axle has no hubs and I didn't really want to put a hub kit on it because the hubs will stick out from the H1 wheels its getting. I'm leaning towards trying it because I'll end up tossing the front carrier anyway. I just thought I'd ask if anyone had tried it and if it required a football field to turn in.

[morerpmfred]

There is the powerwagon locker. Same amm diff?

[FiEND]

I did a few experiments with my front hubs and front arb.  low speed exit ramp coming off the freeway and I think my rear tire lifted a bit, wayyy too much body roll.  have fun trying it though, bring extra underwear.

[4PLAYZJ]

Thanks Al. Locker it is.

[rws]

Well I'm ready to get back on the horse and build my zj that's been sitting waiting for 2 years. I'm in the process of ordering parts and I am not sure what to do in the front diff. I plan on hydro assist and I want more than an LSD in the front.  I'm looking for opinions on welding the front carrier or should I pony up the cash for a selectable locker.

Good to see you have returned!

[cLAY]

I tried a welded front end for awhile.  I had a D44 with a vaccum disconnect and plumbed in a manual switch in the cab to control the disco. Samething could be accomplished by physically getting out and unlocking a hub. I ran it for 3 runs and then took it out. Here's why:

No steering control. On any type of slippery surface such as mud or snow the vehicle would just plow straight ahead. If the trail went around a curve it would plow straight ahead of the trail into the trees.

Breakage. Every time I went out with it I broke either a u-joint or axle shaft, even with the disco unlocked.  When it was unlocked the left axle was still locked to the driveline and the right axle free wheeled. I broke something 3 runs in a row on the left side.  The left side was solidly locked all the time to the driveline and with the rear axle welded as well, there just wasn't any give when going around a dry corner. With the front right unlocked ALL the torque had to go thru the left shaft.

I ended up pulling it and running a posi till I could afford an e-locker. That thing was slick, one push of a button and she locked in. No air lines, valves or compressor to maintain and if the wires got damaged they are easily repairable.

The axle was a D44 and I was running the premium spicer u-joints with 35X12.5 mud tires. Stock axle shafts. No hydro steering at that time.

[dubbleJs]

Well I'm ready to get back on the horse and build my zj that's been sitting waiting for 2 years. I'm in the process of ordering parts and I am not sure what to do in the front diff. I plan on hydro assist and I want more than an LSD in the front.  I'm looking for opinions on welding the front carrier or should I pony up the cash for a selectable locker.

Nice! Is this the same zj from a few years ago? The one in your picture?

[Bnine]

The only way to run a solid front locked rig on the trail is with high steering angle, and if you invert the ackerman effect to drive the front end over. If you do that, it will work fine on the trail.

Still be a bit sketchy to drive down the road, but at the end of the day, what purpose built rig isn't.

To invert the ackerman you have to do something custom with tie rod location to change the angle where the tie rod intersects the ping pin axis.

Factory, if you draw a line through the TRE and KP toward the rear axle the lines should intersect around the rear pumpkin.

If you pull the TRE's inwards to the point the no longer intersect, or intersect way back behind the vehicle you will eventually invert the ackerman. Meaning instead of your inside tire turning a higher angle to reduce scrub, the outside tire will turn sharper.

It will increase scrub on dry ground, but it also helps to push the front end over in locked scenario.

Its really not hard to do.

Most d60's axle shafts can be shaved to allow for about 40 degrees of steering. AAM's I would imagine are similar. Lots of articles on that as well.

On my old setup with full hydro, 38's, inverted ackerman, and +/- 43 degrees of steering I could out turn open on the trail. Turn sideways and climb out of holes.

Its all in how you set it up.

Steering angle and hydro assist are the two major components to making it work. The ackerman thing is a trade trick to make it that much better.


Hope that helps

[Bnine]

Here is the original article most of used back in the day to get our head around ackerman. Its an RC site, but the theory applies to whatever.

http://www.rctek.com/technical/handling/ackerman_steering_principle.html

A thread on max steering angle for d60 stock shaft and some upgraded options

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1105309-dana-60-max-steering-angle.html

These guys will do D60 shafts up to 50 degrees.

http://www.branikmotorsports.com/shop.htm


I imagine Clay at Evo could do a little clearance on your AAM shafts and easily get you about 43-45 degrees so you can safely run 40. Beyond that you would probably be hitting stuff anyways.