Bit of an unorthodox remedy to irresponsible wheeling

[Asia]

There are lots of wheelers who are members of a club (and independents) that covertly run trails that are officially off limits - they just don't advertise it.  Personally I don't blame them - the bullsh@t rules setup by GAMP/SRD deserve to be ignored after they stabbed the wheeling community in the back. 

As far as only members of a club being responsible wheelers - more bullsh@t!  There are lots of individuals who wheel responsibly and choose not to join a club for many valid reasons.

I'm against user fees.  Alberta is a rich province and doesn't have a user fee for its provincial parks, the same should apply for McLean which is in Kananaskis Country, same policy should apply to provincial forest reserves - Waiparous.

[WhiteOut]

I never said that individuals that were not affiliated with a club are irresponsible and the cause of the problems.  I know a lot of people who are not in a club who care about the trails and try to keep them safe, clean and open.  I think that a lot of people would pay a yearly user fee to use the existing trails.  If the users of the OHV areas payed ~$40-50 per year I think a lot of problems would be solved or at least partially.

For example;  On Jan 1 2010 I buy an OHV permit from Modern Motors that is valid until Dec 31 2010.  I get a placard with a unique registry number and space for 2 plate numbers to be filled in.  My resistration number is logged with SRD and Fish and Wildlife, it includes my place of residence, vehicle information, drivers liscence info and contact info.  From my $50 fee, $15 goes to the government for taxes and admin, $20 goes to F&W and SRD for trail maintenance/enforcement and environmental concerns, $5 goes to the retailer that sells me the pass and $10 goes into an account that clubs can access in the form of government grants for various trail projects.

The penalty for no sticker could be as little as a $100 ticket or a $2,500 or so fine.

[Bnine]

There are lots of wheelers who are members of a club (and independents) that covertly run trails that are officially off limits - they just don't advertise it.  Personally I don't blame them - the bullsh@t rules setup by GAMP/SRD deserve to be ignored after they stabbed the wheeling community in the back. 

As far as only members of a club being responsible wheelers - more bullsh@t!  There are lots of individuals who wheel responsibly and choose not to join a club for many valid reasons.

I'm against user fees.  Alberta is a rich province and doesn't have a user fee for its provincial parks, the same should apply for McLean which is in Kananaskis Country, same policy should apply to provincial forest reserves - Waiparous.

Im sure the provincial parks would be quick to have user fees if they were vandalized on a routine basis Tom.

The fee idea is there for two main reason. Deter irresponsible people from wheeling. Provide funding for trail maintaince and enforcement programs.

You have to have a licsence to drive a boat in this province, but with over 200,000 back country motorist there isnt a single program in place to educate, fund, or enforce the back country or its users.

The population and demand put on the areas is to large not to have something put in place.

[morerpmfred]

In the state of Michigan there is an off road user sticker that can be purchased at the local registry office and a sticker goes on your license plate. Fines are available for those people who are caught in an off road area with out a sticker. They have been doing this for around 25 years. Yes I would support this.
Am not a currant member of any recreational 4x4 club but i have been for numerous past years. If being a responsible 4wheeler means not accessing the back country then i,m not responsible 4 wheeler.

[JackstandJohnny]

I'm against user fees.  Alberta is a rich province and doesn't have a user fee for its provincial parks, the same should apply for McLean which is in Kananaskis Country, same policy should apply to provincial forest reserves - Waiparous.

i've said it before and I'll say it again, 

how can you justify spending thousands on trail rig, often a second vehicle destined for the trail, devote countless hours to the buildup/research of a project, and then say NO to paying 25$ for the ability to wheel.  unless ur like me and just like staring at your trail machine while it sits idle in the garage, seems like its not that steep a payment to enjoy something you love.

[Bnine]

If you dont care, then there is no other reason for you to be involved in the conversation other then to stir the proverbial pot Tom.

But, just to put it in perspective for you. Would you rather your tax dollars pay for the enforcement, education programs, and maintaince of motorized recreation you barely use, and dont really care about. Or would prefer those dollars are raised by the actual users involved in the areas?

[Asia]

Bill,   stating my opionion is not solely to "stir the proverbial pot" or take an opposite viewpoint to others, I honestly would rather not pay an extra fee if I don't have to - call me a tight wad, cheap, etc.   I know that the intention of the fee is to provide access, maintenance, personnel and enforcement; but we don't seem to be in control of that.  The Government and SRD have their agenda and are calling the shots without your or my opionion having any impact on their decisions as far as I'm aware (and I'm obviously "out of the loop", correct me if I'm wrong on this).

You're right, I not nearly as commited to wheelin' as many of you are so I'll stay out of the politics in case my opinion is harming the cause.  I was more involved in the past, but the loss of trails and the cost of the wear and tear on the Jeep had me rethinking my priorities.  I can't justify spending more on the Jeep considering the trails we currently have.  I have even considered putting it back to stock and selling the offroad gear.

P.S. There are no fees for the Alberta provincial parks;  National Parks such as Banff, Jasper, Kootenay, Glacier, etc. have fees.

[esi]

I'm against user fees.  Alberta is a rich province and doesn't have a user fee for its provincial parks,

I haven't been to the snow resorts lately but I believe you still have to buy a park pass to stop in the provincial park. Maybe I'm wrong but I think thats a user fee for a provincial park

[Rubi03 jef]

I haven't been to the snow resorts lately but I believe you still have to buy a park pass to stop in the provincial park. Maybe I'm wrong but I think thats a user fee for a provincial park

yes if you plan on stoping in the park you have to pay a day pass something like 20 bucks or so .

i think this idea would be a good way to get alot of those trail wreckers off of them or at least limit them . since there name and plates are on file if reported they get fines
can be something that we can try to bring up to the Gov

if would be nice not to have to pay a fee but if it means getting our trails back and keeping them . then im all 4 the FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE   

[Hi Lo Silver]

NATIONAL Parks has a fee....Provincial Parks have no fee. Nakiska..no fee other than a ski pass. Sunshine, Lake Louise, Nordic are in the National Park...fee

[Bnine]

Bill,   stating my opionion is not solely to "stir the proverbial pot" or take an opposite viewpoint to others, I honestly would rather not pay an extra fee if I don't have to - call me a tight wad, cheap, etc.   I know that the intention of the fee is to provide access, maintenance, personnel and enforcement; but we don't seem to be in control of that.  The Government and SRD have their agenda and are calling the shots without your or my opionion having any impact on their decisions as far as I'm aware (and I'm obviously "out of the loop", correct me if I'm wrong on this).

You're right, I not nearly as commited to wheelin' as many of you are so I'll stay out of the politics in case my opinion is harming the cause.  I was more involved in the past, but the loss of trails and the cost of the wear and tear on the Jeep had me rethinking my priorities.  I can't justify spending more on the Jeep considering the trails we currently have.  I have even considered putting it back to stock and selling the offroad gear.

P.S. There are no fees for the Alberta provincial parks;  National Parks such as Banff, Jasper, Kootenay, Glacier, etc. have fees.

Fair enough Tom.

Ironic though that you dont mind paying for it when you dont see it. Since its your tax dollars that currently pay for any maitnenance and enforcement that goes on now.

Considering a user fee of 50$ a year would provide the government with a revenue stream of 10 plus million dollars, I would imagine a significant portion of their budget that comes from tax dollars would be reduced................

[Hi Lo Silver]

Bill, you don't actually think the fee money would specifically  go back to the trails system for 4x4's?

I could see your figure of 10 million being broke down to 8 million back to general coffers and being used for highway upgrades to get you to the trail heads complete with motorhome access, golf courses, hotels and information kiosks. Unloading areas with all the trim and fancy signs to tell you that anything over 800lbs is not allowed. And the rest going to upgrading the trails so only quads and bikes can access.

This government has taken the easiest way out. There's no way they'll ever bring in a fee process. This is something the off road community has been after them to do for 20 plus years. It's much easier for them to simply get rid of government enforcement workers like Klein brought out when he was elected Premier then just close areas in mass, like this PC government has done since over 30 years ago.

[Bnine]

Im not optimistic that any of it would ever happen. I just think if would be the best course of action. Of course because its the one that makes the most sense, thats why it will likely never go through.

[Fredduck]

Your absolutly right Bill - common sense.
Thats why we're not getting or natural gas rebate - because the price of gas is too low.
If we paid to drive the trails and they were regulated  and policed perhaps they could be expanded.
I know a pipe dream, who wants the pipe next?

[SOMETHING WICKED]

All great Ideas, 10 years ago. I've been there, done that. So have many others on here and other sites. If you want things to happen, run for office, I'll vote for you! The only way it will ever change is to get someone in office on our side, even that's doubtfull. Untill then I will continue to use the same trails I've allways used, responsibly,  for over 20 years.