More starting issues with Liberty

[specialk]

I just replaced the starter AGAIN in my 02 Liberty.  First was replaced in Feb of this year.  Got the orginal rebuilt through PartsSource.  It fixed the starting issue for about 6 months and then the issue came back again.  Talked to the guys at AmperageTech and they said to get a new OEM starter since replacements parts are not yet available for this starter.  Who knows what was done to the first starter...

I just installed the new OEM starter on Friday and the vehicle refused to start again today.  It only happens when the vehicle is warm.  Wife stops to run into a store or pick the mail and vehicle won't start for 10 mins.  She pops the hood, lets things cool down and it starts again... 

There is no audible click when turning the key over when this happens.  There is full power to everything. If it's not the stater, what else could cause the starter to not turn over if the motor is warm?

Any thoughts? I hate to have to buy her a new vehicle.  That would REALLY cut into the plans I have for mine

[slimbeam]

is the exhaust manifold close to the starter? , if so you may have to make another heat sheild to protect the starter; I had a volkswagon with the same problem , the starter was beside the exhaust pipes and got hot, used to rap it with a hammer when hot and away it went otherwise waited for things to cool down

[specialk]

Yeah, the exhaust does come right by the starter.  There is zero room to in there. One suggestion I received before was to wrap the exhaust in that asbestos pipe wrap.  I also noticed when swapping the starter that some other metal shielding at the first bend of the exhaust was not looking so healthy.

I tried once to put some additional insulation between the existing heat shield and exhaust but there wasn't enough room.  But tomorrow, I'll remove the starter heat shield and see if I can add some insulation that I can sandwich between the shield and the starter...

Just asking, how did rapping the starter with the hammer when hot make it turn over?  Wouldn't that be a brush problem? 

It just find it weird that the rebuilt starter in Feb. fixed the issue , albiet for a few months, and now a brand new one isn't fixing the problem...

[slimbeam]

I think that when its hot the armature swells so it cant turn and hitting it loosens it up, but thats only a guess all i no is that it worked;; I think wraping the exhaust will help a lot a custom motor bike shop should have some wrapping, mabe even harley if you cant find it anywhere else

[NUXJR]

I got some exhaust wrap at Unlimited Performance & Exhaust at the corner of 46 ave & 11 st SE.  Good folks over there.

If that doesn't help check with the guys at ATI(Dave or Rick).  They specialize in auto electrical(alternators, starters, generators, inverter systems etc). 403-250-2845.  Tell em Rob @ Courtesy Chrysler refered ya .

[cLAY]

Just for kicks, next time it happens try shifting the tranny from park to N and see if it starts. If its a stick try pumping the clutch a few times. Its a long shot but easy to try.

Another thing to check is the condition of the power cable running to the starter. Its possible that its on its way out and when its hot it has too much internal resistance to do anything.

[specialk]

Thanks for feedback guys

I got some exhaust wrap at Unlimited Performance & Exhaust at the corner of 46 ave & 11 st SE.  Good folks over there.

   

I added some additional insulation to the heat shield today - will see how that works out. 

If that doesn't help check with the guys at ATI(Dave or Rick). 

Spoke to them.  They are very knowledgeable guys. They told me to get a new starter cause the parts for Libby's are available... go figure.

Another thing to check is the condition of the power cable running to the starter. Its possible that its on its way out and when its hot it has too much internal resistance to do anything.

Hmmm.  I did notice some rubbing on the red wires covering...  I wonder if that could be a possible culprit...

[Pookapotamus]

my xj is having the park switch problem, when it happens you get absolutly nothing from the starter no noises whatso ever, i am with clay try slipping it into neutral.

[specialk]

Slipping into neutral did nothing.  Still need to wait for it cool down some.  A couple of times, it sounded like the starter was starting to move then quit.  It's weird, shorter runs seem to be more of a problem.  Had issues going from IKEA to Home Depot - 5 - 10 minute drive with a 15 minute wait time.  Then across the road to Chinook Mall. 2-3 minute drive. Once I parked, I tried to start and it wouldn't go. Vehicle ran for 45 mins after that, parked in the garage.  It started 3 times in a row. No problem...     I'm starting to dislike this issue...

With a brand new starter in place, I guess the next thing to do is check out the wiring.   Any idea how I would go about doing that?  I can't get to the wiring when it's hot.  In order to access the wiring, I need to disconnect the exhaust, remove the front drive shaft and then the heat shield.

Or would adding some additional insulation to the wiring help?  What would I use?

[esi]

There could also be a starter relay in the mix that might be heating up and taking a while to cool down. Take a look in your fuse box and see if there is one. Then look for another in the box that could be swapped to test it out.

[BBD]

Case Number K53725329 
Vehicle Issue No start, possible ignition coil heat failure. Possible crank sensor faults, this is most likely a hot soak related concern.;Diagnostics have been done per techconnect and/or service manuals and the testing is inconclusive. The DRBIII is indicating a crank signal with key on engine off. Unplugging the crank sensor does not change reading, and the crank sensor wirng test OK. See reccommendation.
System or Component No Start;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Ignition Coil / Coils;Hot Restart (Engine Off Less Than 30 Minutes);Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Unplug the CAM sensor and if Crank signal on DRBIII stops reading, replace the CAM sensor.
 
Modification Date 02/24/05 4:26 PM

[cLAY]

That would prevent it from starting, not cranking. His problem is that the engine doesn't even crank.

Do you have an ohm meter? If so disconnect the heavy guage wire at the starter and then trace it up to the other end and undo it there. Then run an ohm test on it and see if it has excessive resistance, or just replace it. Look for discolorlation of the wires or corrsoion.

Are the battery terminals clean and in good shape?

[Evil-Jeep]

That would prevent it from starting, not cranking. His problem is that the engine doesn't even crank.

Would the error codes tell the computer to not pass the current or signal to the starter?



Do you still have the starter you bought in February? If so heat it up (heat gun, BBQ  , heater) and bench test it with a set of booster cables and battery. this may help you narrow down the culprit. I use to "boost" my starter on my old truck to get it running but I am not sure if you can: a) reach the positive connect terminal while it is on a liberty  or if the CPU would allow it to be "boosted"

[specialk]

I swapped fuses /relays in the fuse box - that did nothing.   Battery terminals are good.   I'm going to investigate the wiring next.

Yes - do have the old starter still and will test it out as well.

[specialk]

Well, that Pook guy came over and he was able to trace the issue to a bad ground at the relay... It's starts like a, well, like a Jeep again!    

Thanks for help the Dana!  And thanks to all who posted up things to check!

No more starting issues with the Liberty!