Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => General Talk => Topic started by: Spinalguy on September 09, 2010, 02:31:33 PM
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First i want to say Thank you to all the guys at National 4wd. In every dealing i have ever had with them, i have been treated first class. There have been times that i waited way too long for stuff. But after that happening ONCE, i learned how to make sure it never did again...
when i order something i wait for them to actually find out where the product is. i ask for the absolute worst case scenario of time delivered. If it is within a time frame i can work with, i order it and have NEVER been dissapointed.
Last Tuesday i walked in to get tire prices. i did my homework on the net. Their price for tires, rims and installation was BANG on.
i ordered with the knowledge that the rims would arrive in 5 business days. i scheduled install for today. (that is 7 business days later)
i arrived at 9 am with 5 coffees. The rims and tires were already mounted and balanced (Mike and JJ are very good at balancing btw)
They installed on my truck with a little bit of creative thought for the slight rubbing. My fault as i was getting a tire slightly bigger than what i took off.
i know that National4wd sometimes gets trashed on here but i have never had anything but good experiences. (same story for Modern).
Anyways...
before ( BFG AT 315/75 R16 on Dodge Chrome 16x6.5 rims)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/Spinalguy/12%20valve/64df6dd5.jpg)
after (Nitto Trail Grappler MT 35x12.50 R17 on Pro Comp 17x8 rims)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/Spinalguy/12%20valve/P1100574.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/Spinalguy/12%20valve/P1100576.jpg)
Thank you National4wd 8)
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ps...
these new Nittos will give toyo oc mt's a run for their money.
if i was tire shopping for my jeep, these would be on top of the list. 8)
pps...thanks esi for your help.
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nice wheels Tom ... nice, very nice
can you get a shot of the thread pattern please? I'm just curious...
Thanks
D
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6d2J4H20AN8/SlifJF47oYI/AAAAAAAAFtM/txRUNEem7Ec/s1600/Baja%2BRacing%2BNews%2BNitto%2BTrail%2BGrappler%2BM%2BT.jpg)
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Toyo
(http://customwheel.com/custom_wheels/images/toyo.tires.open.country.mt.jpg)
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ps...
these new Nittos will give toyo oc mt's a run for their money.
look like nice tires.
we don't bash anyone here unless we care about them, and if we do, it is for jeeps.
as for toyos... put your price tag up and i may take your bet :D
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IMO national are incompentent idiots. Maybe years ago they knew what was up but they dropped the ball. Thats all I got to say.
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IMO national are incompentent idiots. Maybe years ago they knew what was up but they dropped the ball. Thats all I got to say.
You cannot speak like that without explaining yourself and the situation.
From what I've seen and heard, most unhappy situations come from the customers who are incompetent (notice I spelled it right and you did not).
Those who do not understand the aftermarket business and the manufacturing process behind it, and who don't really know what they need....
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I have heard that the Nittos are made in the same factory as the Toyos. I don't have any real evidence to support that....just something I've heard on the interweeb.
As far as National and Modern go, I'll offer my thoughts since that seems to be what all the cool kids are doing.
Drew at Modern has been first-rate every single time I have been in. He takes the time to speak with his customers, asks questions, and listens to the answers. I've been happy with everything that I've purchased there.
As far as National goes, my experiences there have not been all that positive. Pay up front, your stuff arrives when it arrives. I've also received some very poor (inaccurate) advice - for instance, a guy that told me that I would be foolish to buy anything other than a long-arm kit if I wanted to put 35's on my JK. ???
The interesting thing is, he couldn't explain any of the advantages of a long-arm kit, let alone how those advantages would be significant to my JK on 35's.
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Nittos were cheaper.
They are made by Toyo.
National has always sponsored off road activities supporting CALGARY clubs.
This is not a trash/support National. i was just giving my experiences with National and showing off the new meats.
If you got nothing nice to say a bout a local business that has been there for the offroad community since they arrived in Calgary...
Than keep it to yourself ;)
Back to the tires!
Nittos were cheaper.
They are made by Toyo.(according to my research)
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I like the tread pattern. Keep us posted as to how they wear on the road.
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I like the tread pattern. Keep us posted as to how they wear on the road.
They are load E.
on a 3/4 truck, they should last over 100,000kms. i LOVED my Toyo's on my jeep (37x14.50) but it seemed from my research that the Nitto would be better in Alberta winters vs the Toyo.
So far...
surprisingly quiet.
balanced well.
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I like the tread pattern. Keep us posted as to how they wear on the road.
X2
balanced well.
I've heard from folks who have Toyos that they have been mounted without balancing and experienced no vibes...even on the highway.
Is that what you mean by balanced well?
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X2
I've heard from folks who have Toyos that they have been mounted without balancing and experienced no vibes...even on the highway.
Is that what you mean by balanced well?
My Toyos took very little weight to balance. Same story for the Nitto.
i think the most my 37" Toyos took was 5 oz. i will look at the Nittos today.
This Trail grappler MT was made this year as a compromise between the AT and MT.
Supposed to be the best of both worlds.
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those nittos look good, and so do the rims.
I havent stepped inside Modern, but I have been treated very well by National, other than delayed shipments.
Those Nittos look good, however I dont think they make them in any 15" sizes, which is unfortunate...last I read, the only off road nitto made in a 15 is the Mud Grappler.
-=edit=-
This post is meant to be a positive review on National. I enjoy dealing with these guys, they offer good prices, and I only have one time to report when an item was not delivered on time.
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X2
I've heard from folks who have Toyos that they have been mounted without balancing and experienced no vibes...even on the highway.
Is that what you mean by balanced well?
We put Bonnies 33"-13.5 Toyos O/C MY on aluminum rims with Staun bead lock without balancing them... no vibes.
the Nittos looks pretty aggressive Tom... nice!
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Lets stop the comments about National and Modern if it's not positive... We do not do that to our supporters...to each is own. Everybody have thier stories... frustration is understandable .. take it with them.. NOT HERE!
I will nuke the posts if I see that crap again.
Thank you
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(http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2008/11/88%20Bacon%20Hitler.jpg)
you heard the [bacon comb-over] man, move along.
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I'd be interested to know how you find the MT's on the highway. I'm running the Nitto Highway Terrain on my 1/2 ton work truck and they are less than stellar. They are stock size, load range E. They feel like they want to wander in the wind and over the crest of the highway. That and they don't like slush.
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you may just be underinflated. how much pressure you run?
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I'd be interested to know how you find the MT's on the highway. I'm running the Nitto Highway Terrain on my 1/2 ton work truck and they are less than stellar. They are stock size, load range E. They feel like they want to wander in the wind and over the crest of the highway. That and they don't like slush.
:(
i hope mine perform better. i bought them for onroad performance and cool looks ;) i do log many miles on trunk roads as well and figured they would be great.
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Spinalguy, what would a 1 hour session run me if I started a thread and pimped your shop with good reviews? ;D
Looking forward to seeing these tires preform on the trails. Let me know when you take your truck out. ;)
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Spinalguy, what would a 1 hour session run me if I started a thread and pimped your shop with good reviews? ;D
Looking forward to seeing these tires preform on the trails. Let me know when you take your truck out. ;)
Hahaha,
Hey now i took my truck wheelin in Moab 2 years ago. It was FUN!
And last week, these tires would have made short work of the mud bog getting out of camp.
And they look so darn cool
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you may just be underinflated. how much pressure you run?
Tried changing it Al.
I'm at 35 now. Tried about 50 because at 35 they look pretty low, not much difference in handling though. I've read with high load range tires you actually need more pressure than stock P range (like 10-15 more). Not sure how true that is because I'm too lazy to use the chalk test on the work truck.
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tires are max 65 psi. Using my digital gauge i put them at 65 front and 60 rear.
Today i did the deerfoot at 120km/hr.
No problems, very smooth.
Bigtime rain later today. Felt very confident.
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That is too much. Chalk test will help. Overinflation is bad and can make the vehicle feel unstable through no shock absorbtion. Just like bumpsteer. Both should be mid 20s. If it wanders on you, may need a wheel alignment due to the change in tire sizes.
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can you explain this "chalk test" you guys are referencing pls
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put your tires to 28 lbs and run a thick line of chalk across the tread
drive straight down a road for about 1-2 km then check how the chalk is wearing off on the tires
too much pressure it will wear in the center. too little and more to the outsides. good it will wear fairly even on the tread.
adjust pressure and do it again. i alway start high cause its easier to let air out
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Real world update...
i did the chalk test and found the front likes 60 and the rear (with no trailer) likes 55.
i pulled a cargo trailer that weighs 1100 lbs and was loaded with another 1400lbs down to Moab and back.
Smooth rolling tires. Less noise than my 12 Valve produces :P. Less mpg versus the BFG AT in same size :'(
i have also run them on Trunk roads around here. With the BFG AT's the truck always felt like it was rolling on ball bearings (uneasy feeling on gravel) but these Nittos made me feel like i was in a high performance rally car. They stuck to the road.
WINTER :o
This week was the true test as i wanted a tire that was as good as the BFG AT is in winter. i let out some more air. 58/53.
First up was the snow. i believe that vehicles that came with 4wd should be in 4wd when weeks like this one are present.
Having said that, i started in 2wd. The tires dug without moving until we reached cement, than i was able to go forward. They stop MUCH better than my BFG AT's. i admit i was surprised at that result. But 2wd just doesn't cut it, so i have been in 4wd all week. Main roads, side streets, Deerfoot, etc.
Observations:
1. These tires STOP quickly in all situations.
2. The front end does not slide out on corners.
3. Icy hardpack conditions and the tires still stick to the road
4. i have yet to see snow fill in between lugs. Always cleaned out.
5. i would buy again...
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Thanks for the update! Might have to look more seriously at those in the Spring/Summer. They caught my eye as it was, but I was hoping to see an update from you on here about them.
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Tried changing it Al.
I'm at 35 now. Tried about 50 because at 35 they look pretty low, not much difference in handling though. I've read with high load range tires you actually need more pressure than stock P range (like 10-15 more). Not sure how true that is because I'm too lazy to use the chalk test on the work truck.
alot of this relates to hhow much weight the tire will carry.
keeping the same tire size and going fron a P to a LT, you typically have to add about 10 -12 psi to hold the same weight.
now, with say my cherokee, stock ish size of 215/75r15 I changed pressure from 33 to 30 going to the 31x10.5r15's, now it it was an LT 215 then I would be arround 43, but because the larger size will hold more at the same pressures, I can drop it some(28 would work good for me), 33's would be somewhere arround 24-26 and that should be able to handle the fully loaded weight that the jeep would weigh.
with bigger trucks the same is true, the larger the tire, the lower pressure you could(and usually should) run.
this is partially due to larger tires having lower pressure ratings(but usually still hold the weight for the vehicle at the reduced pressure)
a lt265/70r17 will hold something like 3400 lbs at 80 psi(something like that, dont have specs in front of me), and a 315/70r17 will hold about the same at 50 psi.
something like that anywho.
just what I know,
cheers
steve