Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: FirstTimer on November 09, 2010, 05:09:31 PM
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Hey everyone,
I'm looking to do a 3-4" lift on my 2002 TJ Sport 4.0l Manual with max 33" tires on 15x8" rims. I come to you all because I've been glued to the internet researching lift kits for the last two weeks. I've looked at everything from BDS to ZONE ( same company apparently) and, just like with all products out there, price and components vary a great deal. So in order to make the best decision on what kit to get I was hoping someone, or someones could give their two cents (or is it sense) on what parts I need in order to have a smooth running lift kit that wont cause me any mechanical issues or tweeking down the road (besides obvious upkeep). FYI, I am not looking for the most hard core set up, as this will be my monday-friday ride and my weekend warrior!
Thanks for your time and input!
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Personally I would go Rubicon Express coils and control arms, JKS trackbars, Bilstein shocks, JKS quick disconnects for the swaybar, BPEs and shock mount conversions to run eye-eye shocks.
Oddly this looks exactly like my setup, which I love.
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Why not start with a zone lift, re adjustable track bar, and a re hack and tap? $800 and you'll have a really decent rig. Later add bds adjustable control arms uppers first then lowers.
Just plug away, but start cheap. If you find the cheap set up is working stick with it. But my bet is one day you'll want 35s then 37s lol.... Experience talking.
Just the way I would do it. Some guys will say build it once, get an expensive kit right away and leave it alone. But I love working on my jeep and my wife loves me not spending huge gobs of money at once.
$0.02 for yea!
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Take a look for the thread that Slewfoot started about lifing his LJ. He got a lot of advice in that thread from people that know a lot about TJ's and all the wonderful ways to make them wobble.
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Whiteout, what that mix and match set up cost you? I ve read great thing s about ask those parts
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how bout 2inch old man emu coils, 1 inch daystar body lift with 1 inch engine lift for driveline angle, bushwacker flat flares and fit 33" tires. if you unhook the sway bars off road you might get some rubbing at full lock and full flex, but if you get the right rims and tires it may be minor rub only. but this set-up keeps the suspension very close to stock and you wont get a lot of the annoyances with heavily modified jeeps.
that would ne my 2 cents....
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Hps4Ever, are you uggesting to keep as close to stock for maintenance reason, ride quality reasons or both?
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Less parts that require upkeep (greasing, torquing etc..)
The cost for my stuff will vary from yours since I have a Grand Cherokee, not a TJ. I'll send you a PM.
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I would actually lean towards what "Hps4ever" is suggesting. That combination would make for a DD that is enjoyable to drive on and off the trail. It would mirror what I would do if I was going to mod a TJ on a modest budget.
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If I go with the ome set up suggested, what happens when I want to upgrade...as I ve been told I will! Do that being said, Any thoughts on the new 2.5" rough country x series, with the adjustable control arms?
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Rough Country eh?
I"ve helped "Rubi03Jef" install one in June of 09. How's that kit holding up for you Jeff?
You could always sell your "gently used" OME stuff in the future if you decide to go that route. I don't think I have any of my old shocks, leafs, coils, and whatever from my past suspension lift-kit left in my garage.
Old Jeep parts just end up being used in someone else's rig for them to enjoy. It's how Jeeple recycle?
I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has disliked their OME stuff come to think about it.
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You can't beat OME suspension lifts. They are amazing on and off the road. There used to be a Jeep on the board that run a OME lift with I think a 1" body lift and 35s with no problems. He had to adjust the bump stops but his jeep ran awesome.
If you are fairly new to the addiction, I would tend to stay small and get used to your rig first before slapping on 4" lift and 33"
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I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has disliked their OME stuff come to think about it.
This. and sometimes, you may even hear someone say they should have stayed with the OME /33 combo instead of going bigger.
Very simple lift, keeps everything relatively stock and greatly improves ride quality over the stock suspension.
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how bout 2inch old man emu coils, 1 inch daystar body lift with 1 inch engine lift for driveline angle, bushwacker flat flares and fit 33" tires. if you unhook the sway bars off road you might get some rubbing at full lock and full flex, but if you get the right rims and tires it may be minor rub only. but this set-up keeps the suspension very close to stock and you wont get a lot of the annoyances with heavily modified jeeps.
that would ne my 2 cents....
x3
I currently have 33x13.5's on a stock suspension w/o rubbing, well, w/o much rubbing. I have the 2" OME kit but I just havent installed it yet, but as hps4evr says, if you DD your jeep this is the most cost effective way to go.
Or, you can go to AEV and get their highline kit, and you can run 37's with 3" of lift.
That rough country x-series stuff is supposed to be pretty good. there are 60 some pages on that kit on jeep forum. Some times there are issues where the springs sag out, and I dont know if their shocks are any good, but if youre going to go with a quality set of control arms I would look to Currie if I was you.
I would say that if you go with OME, rather than use the trackbar relocation kit, spend a bit extra and buy adjustable trackbars, as that will be better for the future. (should you change your lift)
Rough Country eh?
I"ve helped "Rubi03Jef" install one in June of 09. How's that kit holding up for you Jeff?
You could always sell your "gently used" OME stuff in the future if you decide to go that route. I don't think I have any of my old shocks, leafs, coils, and whatever from my past suspension lift-kit left in my garage.
Old Jeep parts just end up being used in someone else's rig for them to enjoy. It's how Jeeple recycle?
I don't think I've ever come across anyone who has disliked their OME stuff come to think about it.
I have had no less than 7 inquiries on my OME kit that isnt installed on my Jeep, and I didnt say I wanted to sell it...just yet anyways.
IMHO, if you are dead set on 3" of lift, I would start with the AEV Nth degree 3" springs and bilstein 5100's for shocks, and build around that.
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Since someone started bringing up OME...I've got OME coils and shocks on my JK, and after a year of DD and trail use I'm very happy. Everyone that I know of who installed OME and also installed the appropriate parts from other manufacturers (since OME doesn't make adjustable track bars or control arms) has been very pleased with the kit.
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It sounds like the general concensus is to mix and match all the best parts, OME coils and shocks, Currie control arms, etc. By doing this do you risk messing with the geometry too much though? I would have thought that if you buy a completed lift/suspension kit from one company it would work better together as it was designed to complement each individual part and its main function... Is this a naive belief to have?
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not naive.
most of us have (at some point) bought 'off the shelf' kits' and have learnt what works, what doesn't, and learn how to tweak what we'd done. Hps4evr had a good thought out build that could suit your needs, but if you don't know for sure, then off the shelf kits aren't a bad option either, and they're a good place to start; mind you, it could very well be 'money wasted' when you realize you actually, want/need something completely different. (been there too)
for what its worth, i'd stay small and cheap to start: that way you aren't into it for too much down the road. that zone kit for 3" is a decent deal, or a 2" budget boost, is also a good option.
then when your done with either 300$ kit, pull it, sell it on Kijiji ;) for 100$ and spend the money on the kit you really want.......... think of it as the cost of learning.
i remember back in the ZJ days, i was into a shortarm lift (all RE stuff, best stuff you can buy at the time) for over 3k....... long arm kits eventually became cheaper, and it was actually what i wanted, but i'd dropped so much on the short arms stuff i had to keep it....
in short, start small, see what works, what you want.......... 2 - 3" kit and 33s or 32s.... good starting point.
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It sounds like the general concensus is to mix and match all the best parts, OME coils and shocks, Currie control arms, etc. By doing this do you risk messing with the geometry too much though? I would have thought that if you buy a completed lift/suspension kit from one company it would work better together as it was designed to complement each individual part and its main function... Is this a naive belief to have?
Not naive, that just isnt how it works.
Most suspensions in the form of "kits" take significant short cuts and leave out key components in order to maintain profit margins.
The closest thing you will ever find to complete suspension is a full currie 4" system, but to an experienced builder that lift is actually taller then whats ideal.
I build several complete bottom up dual purpose TJ's per year. The best results I've had, and the recipe I have stuck to for 5 TJ's has been as follows.
Springs OME ZJ/LJ combo (nets just under 3" of lift)
Currei hd front trackbar (TJJ)
bilstein 5100, or ome shocks (prefer bilstein due to better valving and packaging)
JKS 1.25" body lift w/1"mml
Currie hd steering
Currie johnny jointed control arms, custom built with heavy wall tubing
Swaylock front swaybar
Currie antirock rear sway bar
Genrite rear shock outboard kit
Everything is doable in stages and all the components are the absolute best of the best and ultra low maintenance. The end result is a short arm TJ that will articulate with a longarmed rig, drive down the road with 1 finger at 70mph, ride better then stock, and corner like a car.
I've been building TJ for myself and others for 10 years. If someone finds me a better dual purpose recipe then this, I am all ears.
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If someone finds me a better dual purpose recipe then this, I am all ears.
Replace the following 5 components on your list with ORI's ! ;)
Springs OME ZJ/LJ combo (nets just under 3" of lift)
bilstein 5100, or ome shocks (prefer bilstein due to better valving and packaging)
Swaylock front swaybar
Currie antirock rear sway bar
Genrite rear shock outboard kit
And add a tummy tuck for good measure. ;D
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Thats a different build and certainly not a street legal one.
Once I cut the back of the frame off and narrow it, we've kind of gone past the point of no return ;)
That, and I always have a hard time finding volunteers to give me 10 grand up front in order to set them up with 4 shocks.
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Well it looks like I've got a pretty good idea going foward with what I'd like to do suspension-wise. Thanks everyone for your input, and keep it coming if anyone has any different ideas. But as I've learned a good suspension isn't just about the springs, shocks, etc (or maybe it is)... What about skid plates, and body armour, and performance parts like, cold air intake, exhaust, gear ratios, and all that complecated stuff that makes your Jeep run better, faster and stronger on and off road.
Any advice there?
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Thats a different build and certainly not a street legal one.
Once I cut the back of the frame off and narrow it, we've kind of gone past the point of no return ;)
That, and I always have a hard time finding volunteers to give me 10 grand up front in order to set them up with 4 shocks.
I'm hoping for no frame cutting (doesn't need moonbuggy articulation), well under 10K, streetable with ORI's.
Let me gather some thoughts, specs and examples....
I'll start a new thread after my vacation and you can confirm or shoot down the geometry and cost value vs. functionality investment.
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Well it looks like I've got a pretty good idea going foward with what I'd like to do suspension-wise. Thanks everyone for your input, and keep it coming if anyone has any different ideas. But as I've learned a good suspension isn't just about the springs, shocks, etc (or maybe it is)... What about skid plates, and body armour, and performance parts like, cold air intake, exhaust, gear ratios, and all that complecated stuff that makes your Jeep run better, faster and stronger on and off road.
Any advice there?
#1. Start coming to meetings and trail runs. If you let us, we will yap about our rigs and what we like about 'em and what sux about 'em all day.
#2. Since you're seeing us in person and seeing whose rig can actually perform, you'll be able to judge who's a web wheeler with a large ego and empty head, and who has taken the time to learn.
#3. You'll probably learn a lot more about what YOU want YOUR rig to be, and what you want to do with it. That's the single most important thing to learn. You'll probably come away saying "As long as my rig doesn't drive like a green JK, I'm happy."
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#2. Since you're seeing us in person and seeing whose rig can actually perform, you'll be able to judge who's a web wheeler with a large ego and empty head, and who has taken the time to learn.
or just who has a large head ???
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or just who has a large head ???
Glass houses, Johhny. Glass houses.
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or just who has a large head ???
That's no moon. It's a space station...
Wsquared is right. Come to a meeting and eyeball some modified rigs and ask questions. We'll geek-out with you all day. This thread can go on forever about what to do and what not to do. It's your Jeep and your money. There's no rush to modify.
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plus there's over 20,000 posts in this forum to re-search through
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I agree about needing actual "feild" experience with this whole thing. Working six days a week can be a killer though! I'm hoping to hit up Maclean Creek as soon as possible so I can see some nices rigs in motion rather then imagining what they perform like. On the other side, coming to a meeting or a trail run without any info would leave me scratching my head. So alteast this way I some foundation to build my wheeling goals and dreams on!
I've been reading through threads for days!!! Which has helped, but sometimes products and opinions change, and new members come and go, so its always nice to get a fresh up-date perspective!
When is the next run/meeting? Not seeing anything scheduled for newbies in the near future?
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I'm hoping for no frame cutting (doesn't need moonbuggy articulation), well under 10K, streetable with ORI's.
Let me gather some thoughts, specs and examples....
I'll start a new thread after my vacation and you can confirm or shoot down the geometry and cost value vs. functionality investment.
If you are brainstorming Serge, you can go look at Rock Krawlers old coil over conversion. They put coil overs on a wrangler without cutting, but it was only an 8" travel coil over.
If you strickly frame french some mounts you can get a 12-14" in there with 4 plus inch of lift, but anything larger then a 2" coil over with springs needs shallow pack space and wheelspacers, to even start fitting.
I'll be doing Denise's 12" coil overs in the back this year with minimal cutting. Stop down some time if you are looking to do some brain storming.
And bring one of those snazzy shocks with you :):)