Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: arabian sahara on May 11, 2011, 12:35:39 PM
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Ok so me and my cuz went off roading. We come to the mud pit that I have been throu before no problems start going through and get stuck. The tail pipe was under water so I didn't turn off the jeep until I got towed out 3 hours later. The sound it made was like it was trying to gush out water from the engine and the tailpipe but I didn't see anything. Now the check engine light is on and it's telling me to Check gauges when ever I turn it on. O and there white smoke comining out when ever I gas it. Plz help me . What's wrong , what should I do. Am I completely screwed of is it a quick fix? :(
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answer you don't want to hear -
White smoke is caused by engine coolant/Antifreeze being processed in the combustion chamber(s) of the engine
You probably overheated when you were stuck in the mud and blew your head gasket.
Pop the hood and start checking.
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answer you don't want to hear -
White smoke is caused by engine coolant/Antifreeze being processed in the combustion chamber(s) of the engine
You probably overheated when you were stuck in the mud and blew your head gasket.
Pop the hood and start checking.
I'm new to this so I don't know what to be looking for. . . What should I look for under the hood, under the car, in the engine, what should I take apart?
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If you don't know, you should probably take it to a mechanic.
One thing you can do though... smell the exhaust. does it smell sweet? if it does... it's your head gasket for sure.
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If you don't know, you should probably take it to a mechanic.
One thing you can do though... smell the exhaust. does it smell sweet? if it does... it's your head gasket for sure.
What do u think that's going to run me? Is it worh fixing
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you may also be able to check the oil, if the dipstick comes out looking greyish and runny you may have either blown a gasket or cracked the block........
How deep was the water/mud, did any get in the intake? could be as little as having water in the system and simply need drain oils and replace.
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you may also be able to check the oil, if the dipstick comes out looking greyish and runny you may have either blown a gasket or cracked the block........
How deep was the water/mud, did any get in the intake? could be as little as having water in the system and simply need drain oils and replace.
The water covers 33" tires ... I don't think iit got to the intake. ... Should I try to change the oil and see?
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Honestly, just take it to a mechanic and see what they say. All you are going to get is speculation from people on here of what it MIGHT be and how to MAYBE help the situation
Jeepin is an expense sport, especially repairs. Let us know how it turns out
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I would start with just checking the color of the oil on the dipstick, post a pic of it for others to see (use something white as a back drop)
Changing your oil wont hurt anything, but it won't fix a bad gasket or cracked block either.
If you do take it to a shop as blackyj recommends (not a bad idea if you are not sure what the problem is) make sure the oil in it is good before you do more damage driving with a crankcase full of coolant.
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answer you don't want to hear -
White smoke is caused by engine coolant/Antifreeze being processed in the combustion chamber(s) of the engine
You probably overheated when you were stuck in the mud and blew your head gasket.
Pop the hood and start checking.
x2.
check the engine oil. if it looks like chocolate milk you might have some issues. another way to tell is your guages; is it overheating? 3 hrs in a mud hole with a rad clogged with mud could very well overheat it......
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First thing I would do is change the oil,and check the color and consistency,and pull the air filter,looking for signs that water may have been injested. Check the head and block for signs of cracks/leaks. Sounds like the head is leaking coolant into the combustion chambers.
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I wouldn't bother changing the oil as a first step if the dipstick is showing it being milky. You have bigger problems if you have a blown head gasket, and will have to change the oil again anyway.
The water covers 33" tires ... I don't think iit got to the intake
doubt your air filter got anything in it if it was just over the tires. Depends how hard you hit it though...
Have you checked anything? Or is all you know is there is white smoke?
The tail pipe was under water so I didn't turn off the jeep until I got towed out 3 hours later.
3 hrs in a mud hole with a rad clogged with mud could very well overheat it......
x2
From the sounds of things, you don't know a whole lot about the mechanics under the hood, so take it to a mechanic. Call around and see if they can give you a free quote. At least that way you will know what's wrong with it and have a rough idea how much it's gonna cost you. If the mechanics are like the ones out here, double the price they quote just to be safe. ;) Or if you have the time, use it as a project to start learning. Youtube videos if you have to, buy a repair manual.
Overall, this should be a good lesson why you should never wheel alone. 3 hours stuck is way to long.
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I don't know how to post up pics but I will check all of these, thank you ... If anyone elss has somthing ells for mento check let me know
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I wouldn't bother changing the oil as a first step if the dipstick is showing it being milky. You have bigger problems if you have a blown head gasket, and will have to change the oil again anyway.
doubt your air filter got anything in it if it was just over the tires. Depends how hard you hit it though...
Have you checked anything? Or is all you know is there is white smoke?
x2
From the sounds of things, you don't know a whole lot about the mechanics under the hood, so take it to a mechanic. Call around and see if they can give you a free quote. At least that way you will know what's wrong with it and have a rough idea how much it's gonna cost you. If the mechanics are like the ones out here, double the price they quote just to be safe. ;) Or if you have the time, use it as a project to start learning. Youtube videos if you have to, buy a repair manual.
Overall, this should be a good lesson why you should never wheel alone. 3 hours stuck is way to long.
No I have not checked anything as I'm at work and I took
My z4 . I will check when I get back home
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heres a picture of it stuck.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150584160075220&set=a.10150180211965220.429535.900320219&type=1&theater
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i can't get the picture link to work.
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i can't get the picture link to work.
x2
best to get a photobucket account and use the link from there. That way we can all see it. :)
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Ok update. 1. I just turnd it on and gave a lil gas and some thing came out of tailpipe. 2. I opened air filter and the corner is wet but that's all. 3. Pulled out dip stick for oil. Looked like mud.
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if you didnt get the hood under water and it ran for 3 hours and now it burns white. my first guess would be you got water in the exhaust and its burning off. its actually a fun trick to do to people, fill the muffler with water and when it gets hot the water evapporates.
but like the others said, check yor engine oil, if tis milky then you got water in there. check the trans, t/case and diffs.
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Ok update. 1. I just turnd it on and gave a lil gas and some thing came out of tailpipe. 2. I opened air filter and the corner is wet but that's all. 3. Pulled out dip stick for oil. Looked like mud.
just read this part. if its muddy you will want to change it.
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How much mud oil is in there, is it light or dark? Is your dip stick reading above the full mark? Is your coolant level low? Is your engine over heating? You can check for bubbles in the cooling system, this would indicate a blown head gasket or a cracked head. If your engine is overfull and your coolant is low I'd say you've got an internal crack somewhere. Does it idle rough? What code is it throwing? If it idles rough you may have hydro-locked it, cracked something, or a blown head gasket, now you have low compression causing a mis-fire. Do a compression test. Do not run the engine with mud oil in there, your bearings will be toast in no time.
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How much mud oil is in there, is it light or dark? Is your dip stick reading above the full mark? Is your coolant level low? Is your engine over heating? You can check for bubbles in the cooling system, this would indicate a blown head gasket or a cracked head. If your engine is overfull and your coolant is low I'd say you've got an internal crack somewhere. Does it idle rough? What code is it throwing? If it idles rough you may have hydro-locked it, cracked something, or a blown head gasket, now you have low compression causing a mis-fire. Do a compression test. Do not run the engine with mud oil in there, your bearings will be toast in no time.
it has been daring for about an hour and a half now. And over 14 liter has come out. ... Didn't check the coolant will do tomorrow. But ya it comes out as a light brown mud ... The dip stick is way over full line. I turns it on today, for 10 mins and it didn't over heat.
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What are you draining that has already let out 14 liters?
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What are you draining that has already let out 14 liters?
x2
14 liters of muddy oil? from the engine? ... say what? :o
Take pics and get a photobucket account and post the urls on here. Those of us who use this at work can't access FB at the office. Even at home I couldn't access the link.
From the sounds of things though, you are over your head. No offense. Just take your ride to a mechanic. Get them to look it over and give you a quote.
If you want to try figuring this one out yourself, make sure you pull your spark plugs and clean them as well when you clean everything else. No point putting mud back in clean oil.
Hope you have a garage you can work in and have an engine hoist. On the bright side, it's nice out now so you can get a lot more Z4 time.
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What are you draining that has already let out 14 liters?
My thoughts exactly. ft you had that much oil/water in you oil pan, other seals may now be compromised. Can an auto tranny hold that much fluid?
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Drain all your fluids, tranny and diffs as well. If you have the ability drop the oil pan and clean it out. The mud won't drain out thru the drain hole. Change all the fluids and then see what its like. No need to run to a mechanic just yet.
Check the coolant but it should be ok, probably won't need to change that but both diffs and the engine and tranny and t-case will all need to drained. After the covers are off the diffs use a can of brake clean to rinse them out, probably a full can per diff.
If its an auto, BEFORE YOU DRIVE IT ANYMORE, get the pan off and clean it and change the filter. For a manual tranny(and t-case) drain, refill, drive for a week or so then repeat.
If you cann't change your own fluids you may as well learn now of you will find 4 wheeling to be a VERY expensive hobby.
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14 liters from the oil container. I'm not to sure how to drain the tranny or the deffs, but I'll look it up.... I'll see if I can drop the oil container and try to clean it out. Should I get it flushed ? Would that help? As for the pictures, I took some pictures but I am at work now and I can't up load them ... Only on facebook cuz I'm using my phone. I'm up for doing all the work for the fluids and cleaning. It would be a good learning curve , but can any one tell me, where I can get all the fluids , and how much it will run me??? I have nothing right now but the engine oil. What are the supplies I'm going to need? And the different fluids?
Drain all your fluids, tranny and diffs as well. If you have the ability drop the oil pan and clean it out. The mud won't drain out thru the drain hole. Change all the fluids and then see what its like. No need to run to a mechanic just yet.
Check the coolant but it should be ok, probably won't need to change that but both diffs and the engine and tranny and t-case will all need to drained. After the covers are off the diffs use a can of brake clean to rinse them out, probably a full can per diff.
If its an auto, BEFORE YOU DRIVE IT ANYMORE, get the pan off and clean it and change the filter. For a manual tranny(and t-case) drain, refill, drive for a week or so then repeat.
If you cann't change your own fluids you may as well learn now of you will find 4 wheeling to be a VERY expensive hobby.
x2
14 liters of muddy oil? from the engine? ... say what? :o
Take pics and get a photobucket account and post the urls on here. Those of us who use this at work can't access FB at the office. Even at home I couldn't access the link.
From the sounds of things though, you are over your head. No offense. Just take your ride to a mechanic. Get them to look it over and give you a quote.
If you want to try figuring this one out yourself, make sure you pull your spark plugs and clean them as well when you clean everything else. No point putting mud back in clean oil.
Hope you have a garage you can work in and have an engine hoist. On the bright side, it's nice out now so you can get a lot more Z4 time.
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If you drove it any after it being in the mud I'd think there is little point in trying to do anything but part the Jeep out now.
14 liters is almost double the capacity for the 4.0L engine, if there is that much mud and water in the oil your diffs are most likely full, as well as the tranny.
If you want to try do what CLAY said, you will need a few hundred dollars worth of fluids especially if if its an auto.
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If you want to try do what CLAY said, you will need a few hundred dollars worth of fluids especially if if its an auto.
Don't forget all the gaskets and seals you will need to replace.
If you really want to learn the Jeep world, you can use this as a project. You will learn a lot with everything you will have to check and replace.
If you are worried about a few hundred bucks for repairs... part it out and buy another one.
...you will find 4 wheeling to be a VERY expensive hobby.
x2
If you have a 8.8 locked rear with 410s or a front D44 locked... I might be interested in buying... depending how bad of shape they are in. ;)
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No it's a manual. An I would rather spend the 4 or 500 on fluids than part with it. If I part with it I don't think I'll get as much out of it as if I
Fix it. Unless some one wants it for 4000 I'll sell it lol it's been with me for 3 years and I got it for 8 ... I don't know what i have in it... All I know is it has the rear lockers but don't know what they are. And no
Front Don't forget all the gaskets and seals you will need to replace.
If you really want to learn the Jeep world, you can use this as a project. You will learn a lot with everything you will have to check and replace.
If you are worried about a few hundred bucks for repairs... part it out and buy another one. x2
If you have a 8.8 locked rear with 410s or a front D44 locked... I might be interested in buying... depending how bad of shape they are in. ;)
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I think parting it out is a bit premature at this point. Even if the motor is toast it can be replaced. Its defiantly worth some money and time to figure out how bad it really is.
First off what is it(year, model, etc) and what tranny do you have? Auto or stick?
I'm guessing its a manual since you drove it home, an auto wouldn't have gone far with water in it.
First try to see what state the motor is in and if its ok then you can worry about the other stuff.
At some point you'll need to pull the oil pan. This involves undoing a ring of bolts on the pan and dropping it down. Fairly easy on a lifted TJ/YJ, a stock Cherokee may require jacking up the body and dropping the diff a bit to get enough room to maneuver it out. If you think you can handle this job I'd start there. Otherwise drain as much oil and mud as possible, change the filter, refill the motor with oil and idle it for 5-10min. Then drain it and refill it again with fresh fluid and another filter. Repeat this until it comes out fairly clean and free of water.
Report back to us after this is done. Hopefully you smoking issue will clear up, and the engine will run ok and you can start on the rest of the fluid changes.
Oil and filters can be had at any auto parts store. I'd suggest buying the cheapest oil possible since you'll just be draining it out right away. Also buy a large pan to drain it in to.
14l of water in the motor can push oil/water past the rings and cause smoke. However that much water can also thin out the oil and wipe out the bearings. How did the motor sound when running?
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It is a 2001 jeep sahara 4.0 manual, with 31" tires and a 3 in lift. So ya I can fit under it fine. I was thinking of droping the pan, cleaning it out putting it back using some oil flush, run it for 10 mins draining the flush and replacing the filter and oil... I can do that today. But then I have to go get some of the other fluids I need. But I don't know how to drainthw tranny or the front and back deffs.
I think parting it out is a bit premature at this point. Even if the motor is toast it can be replaced. Its defiantly worth some money and time to figure out how bad it really is.
First off what is it(year, model, etc) and what tranny do you have? Auto or stick?
I'm guessing its a manual since you drove it home, an auto wouldn't have gone far with water in it.
First try to see what state the motor is in and if its ok then you can worry about the other stuff.
At some point you'll need to pull the oil pan. This involves undoing a ring of bolts on the pan and dropping it down. Fairly easy on a lifted TJ/YJ, a stock Cherokee may require jacking up the body and dropping the diff a bit to get enough room to maneuver it out. If you think you can handle this job I'd start there. Otherwise drain as much oil and mud as possible, change the filter, refill the motor with oil and idle it for 5-10min. Then drain it and refill it again with fresh fluid and another filter. Repeat this until it comes out fairly clean and free of water.
Report back to us after this is done. Hopefully you smoking issue will clear up, and the engine will run ok and you can start on the rest of the fluid changes.
Oil and filters can be had at any auto parts store. I'd suggest buying the cheapest oil possible since you'll just be draining it out right away. Also buy a large pan to drain it in to.
14l of water in the motor can push oil/water past the rings and cause smoke. However that much water can also thin out the oil and wipe out the bearings. How did the motor sound when running?
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Check this out... it should help
Transmission
http://www.4x4xplor.com/trannyservice.html (http://www.4x4xplor.com/trannyservice.html)
Diffs.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/diff-service.html (http://www.4x4xplor.com/diff-service.html)
Check the site for any other servicing you have questions about. It's one of the better ones I have found.
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K will do thanks
Check this out... it should help
Transmission
http://www.4x4xplor.com/trannyservice.html (http://www.4x4xplor.com/trannyservice.html)
Diffs.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/diff-service.html (http://www.4x4xplor.com/diff-service.html)
Check the site for any other servicing you have questions about. It's one of the better ones I have found.
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Also pull your valve cover. If you are going to be replacing everything, might as well get it open and inspect everything inside.
New gasket should run about 50 bucks, but at least you can check to see if you did any damage and help get rid of some of the mud at the top.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
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For dropping the oil pan you'll need a 3/8s socket set with some extensions. You may have to take the starter off if its in the way, if so unhook the battery. For putting it back on you'll need a new oil pan gasket and RTV sealant, I like the brand "The right stuff", its more money but worth it. You'll also use it later for the diff covers. You'll need a good scrapper to get gasket material off. You'll want everthing nice and clean before putting it back together. May as well get 4-6 cans of brake clean and a few rolls of shop towel. I like the blue ones. Canadian tire is probably your best/cheapest bet for all this stuff. If you have a cordless drill already then get a wire wheel for it. Makes cleaning the gasket stuff off a bit quicker. While at CT see if they have a Haynes manual for your Jeep, it will have nice pics and step by step instructions.
Diffs are easy, put a pan under the center diff, undo the ring of bolts, leave the top one in halfway and smack the cover with a hammer till the seal breaks loose and all the oil comes out. Clean inside with brake clean, clean off old sealer from cover and mating surface. Wipe out the little pool in the bottom of the diff till its empty. Put a ring of sealer on the cover and reinstall cover. Refill with oil, usually 1.5-3L per diff. What kind of locker or limited slip do you have? Some require an additive for the oil.
Manual tranny and t-case will have a drain plug on the bottom and a fill plug on the side. May need a transfer pump to fill it or a long hose to reach up into the engine bay. May need to drain and refill a few times to get it all clear. These may require special sockets, not sure on your model tranny. T-case I usually use large adjustable wrench. This works as long as no one put the plugs in too tight.
Check your owners manual as to what specific oils you need. May need synthetic gear oil for the tranny and diffs($$$$).
It make be worth it to buy a 20L bucket of gear oil(expensive though) and a bucket pump. Will make things much easier/faster.
I wouldn't do an engine flush till the pan has been cleaned out, in fact I wouldn't bother at all. Not really a believer in engine flushes.
No need to pull the valve cover. You won't see mud up there.
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This whole situation does not sound good for the motor, if muddy oil has circulated, the motor is pretty much toast.
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Thanx clay, that's going to help out alot, now I have a big azz shopping list. I have a feeling Canadian tire is going to get to know me more and more. I'll see if one of my buddies in this jeep club can hive me a hand tomorrow with it.
For dropping the oil pan you'll need a 3/8s socket set with some extensions. You may have to take the starter off if its in the way, if so unhook the battery. For putting it back on you'll need a new oil pan gasket and RTV sealant, I like the brand "The right stuff", its more money but worth it. You'll also use it later for the diff covers. You'll need a good scrapper to get gasket material off. You'll want everthing nice and clean before putting it back together. May as well get 4-6 cans of brake clean and a few rolls of shop towel. I like the blue ones. Canadian tire is probably your best/cheapest bet for all this stuff. If you have a cordless drill already then get a wire wheel for it. Makes cleaning the gasket stuff off a bit quicker. While at CT see if they have a Haynes manual for your Jeep, it will have nice pics and step by step instructions.
Diffs are easy, put a pan under the center diff, undo the ring of bolts, leave the top one in halfway and smack the cover with a hammer till the seal breaks loose and all the oil comes out. Clean inside with brake clean, clean off old sealer from cover and mating surface. Wipe out the little pool in the bottom of the diff till its empty. Put a ring of sealer on the cover and reinstall cover. Refill with oil, usually 1.5-3L per diff. What kind of locker or limited slip do you have? Some require an additive for the oil.
Manual tranny and t-case will have a drain plug on the bottom and a fill plug on the side. May need a transfer pump to fill it or a long hose to reach up into the engine bay. May need to drain and refill a few times to get it all clear. These may require special sockets, not sure on your model tranny. T-case I usually use large adjustable wrench. This works as long as no one put the plugs in too tight.
Check your owners manual as to what specific oils you need. May need synthetic gear oil for the tranny and diffs($$$$).
It make be worth it to buy a 20L bucket of gear oil(expensive though) and a bucket pump. Will make things much easier/faster.
I wouldn't do an engine flush till the pan has been cleaned out, in fact I wouldn't bother at all. Not really a believer in engine flushes.
No need to pull the valve cover. You won't see mud up there.
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where can i get an oil pan gasket for the jeep?
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any local parts store like autovalue or NAPA should have em on the shelf :)
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Canadian tire will also be able to provide a gasket. NAPA parts are usually better but more money than CT. Where ever you go call ahead to make sure its in stock, or can be ordered so its in when you get there.
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Btw the tool you need to drain your tranny is a 17 mm (or 18 , can't remember) hex key (like an Allan key). It's a bitch to find. I have one you can borrow as long as it comes back.
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Thanx av.nine. I'll let u know if I need it. I have like 50 hex keys laying around . I'll see if any fit
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I've got an oilpan gasket I'll sell you. New in box.
$40 come and get it. Calgary NE daytime only.
Greg 403-809-091six
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quick update. i have changed the oil 2 times so far and filter, its looking good. but then i desided to look in the air filter ... and that muddy oil is in it. i took it apart and found that its leading to the engine(the mudd) should i even bother going on if its in the engine? is it to late you should i go on and do the tranny and the diffs.by the way ... when i changed the the oil, i turnd it on for 10 mins, i then looked under the car and found that the front diff is leaking for the drivers side ( so the left side) where it looks like there was a screw there or sonthing. and a little bit was dripping from the tranny area... any thoughts
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Its possible that with so much water in the crank its pushed oil/water into the PCV system and the air filter.
Just to confirm, you drove the jeep home after getting it unstuck? Did it make any weird noises? Have you ran the engine since changing the oil?
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I drove it for 1 minute then i staled it some how and got it towed back home. Yes I did turn it on after the oil change
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If you are in need of an engine I have a low mile 4.0L for you. If interested pm me for details.
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So does it run now that the oil change is done? If there was water in the intake then you may want to pull the plugs before trying to turn it over to make sure it doesn't hydrolock.
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If you are in need of an engine I have a low mile 4.0L for you. If interested pm me for details.
Thanx sahara I'll let u know.
So does it run now that the oil change is done? If there was water in the intake then you may want to pull the plugs before trying to turn it over to make sure it doesn't hydrolock.
cLAY
pull out the plugs as in the spark plugs? I'm guessing u mean to clean them???
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If water got into the intake then it can go into the engine combustion chamber. If it gets in there and you try to start the motor bad things happen because water doesn't compress so bad stuff happens like conecting rods bending and such. Pulling the spark plugs before cranking the engine lets the water in the cylinders escape.
Have you tried turning it over or had it running since you go it home?
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Well yes. I did before and after I changed the oil. K so what ur saying is. Take you the sparkplugs and then put the key in the ignition and turn it... Which will then move the pistons thus pushing out the water in the chamber ... Is that right?
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Yes but if you had the engine running since doing the flush then there is no water in the cylinders.
So how's it run now that you,ve flushed it?
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Well when I turn it on now I hear a clicking sound as if the fan is hitting somthing . Or somthing is loose . I'm not sure what it is.
Yes but if you had the engine running since doing the flush then there is no water in the cylinders.
So how's it run now that you,ve flushed it?
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Ummm, it would have been best if you started with that piece of info.
Just to clarify, turning the key on and starting the engine aren't the same thing. When you turn the key on all you are doing is turning on the electrical system. "Starting" the engine means turning the key all the way forward and engaging the starter.
Pull the plugs and try to crank the engine over with the starter. If it still won't go put a socket on the front of the crank pulley and try to turn it(with the plugs still out). If it still won't turn over then you can stop right there. Its seized and you may as well go look for another motor.
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So any updates to report. I am curious to hear how this turned out for you
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bump. what's the final word? Just curious. :-[
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Sorry I have not been on the form for a while. Turns out I need a new engine . So ya. Everything ells I did was a waist of money pretty much. So now I'm looking for an 01 sahara engine