Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Rubi03 jef on July 22, 2011, 12:54:47 AM
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so now im debating
option 1
do i sell my already pretty well built dana 44 locked and 5.13's with chromoly shafts and buy 2 dana 60's and build them slowly
option 2
keep the 44's and try to build them tougher .
goal is to run 38's and long arm .. i dont like mud i rather crawl everything
anyone with input would be great.. somethings is telling me sell sell sell and buy 60's and i know ill never break . but i want input
thanks
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One part of the equation that you haven't given us details on yet...what are you planning for the engine? Leave it as a stocker, or are you going to stroke it or do a swap sometime in the future (or put a blower on it)?
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For 38's you'd be nuts going to 60's. Look how good your jeep works now. When you do your cummins swap the extra weight and power will warrant a 60 swap. Lets put some gussets on your 44's, maybe a truss and leave it there for now. No rush dude. Look what i did while on a very not built dana 30 and 35.....
Now.... Lets enter your jeep in TTC.
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How hard do you wheel? Are you that entertaining guy that rpms up everything putting on a good show or do you like to finesse your way through it? I'm some where it betweeen, probably a bit more to the finesse side. My front D44 has stock axles and is a low pinion. I've broken 2 shafts doing some stupid stuff with a posi front end that would open and the wrong time and shock load one side. Other than that its been pretty good. Running 36s, with a stock 5.2 and 5.38s on a 6500# rig. I do take out the occasional bearing when I forget to repack them after being in the mud.
The rear is a welded D60 with stock 32 spline shafts as well(GASP!). Its now in its 3rd wheeling rig, been rocking that diff for over 10years. NEVER failed. All I've done other than re-gear it is brake shoes.
How far along with your D44 are you and what sort of D44 is it? Rubi or custom? Building a D60 costs the same as a D44 except for the initial purchase. Plus the cost to change the other axle so it matchs the 8 bolt pattern.
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He's got rubicon 44's with chromoly inners and outters with 5.13s.
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Thats a pretty decent setup. I would be inclined to stay with it. However selling them would go a long way to building some 60s.
Is he capable of doing the work himself? Otherwise things get pricey.....
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Thats a pretty decent setup. I would be inclined to stay with it. However selling them would go a long way to building some 60s.
Is he capable of doing the work himself? Otherwise things get pricey.....
Yup, a grinder is his favorite tool hahaha
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Ya I can do my own work I geared my own rubi 44's no issues a year later now and the Pattern is still tight so I did awesome
I don't like to beat my jeep into the red so I will try to crawl everything first
But as well all know sometimes the skinny pedal can be ur friend as well as ur nightmare
I know if I sold my 44's they would bring in some good cash to go towards 60's
Right now the biggest pain with the 44's is the unit bearings but I think o have it covered pretty good
Napa and auto value have 1 year warranty on there bearings and well I haven't paid for bears for 4 years now and mine get hangs out ever 8 months. And that's on 35's. If I got to 38's 6 months will probably but the life of those bearings
As long and napa an auto value don't cut me off on my returns I'm good to go
So then the next concern is building all new mounts on Dana 60's for suspension I know I could do this. But I just haven't yet
So a bit on the unsure side.
So it's alot to ponder
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Go 60's its the best thing i ever did!!!!. I blew up my 44 running 37's.
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Clay's44 isnt really the same as a rubi 44. It isnt just the unit bearings, its also the balljoints, steering knuckles and width that you have to deal with.
Stock jeep axles are not nearly wide enough to run 38's in any practical/functional form. Even with a dangerous amount of spacer they are still to narrow and will restrict both wheel travel and turning radius.
Also rubicon lockers are not 38' tire strong. With hard wheeling you are usually lucky to get more then 2 busy seasons out of one on 35's. Both joel, and rick have blown rubi lockers on 35's just in this club alone.
38's are a big step. Are you going to beadlock them? Not much point in having that much tire if you cant air it down. Are you going to do hydro assist? Maybe ask Dom how many steering boxes and pumps he went through trying to 37's unassisted.
Are you stretching? Cause 38's and 93" wheelbase on a TJ really brings the suck when it comes to climbing. Minimum wheelbase consideration for 38's is 99" and ideal is 103-105".
Lots of things to consider. 35's are where stock tj's, and rubi's cap out before getting into a whole world of modifications.
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YEs I want to stretch 7 out back and maybe 2 to 3 inchs up front hydro assist for sure
And ya I was wonderig if I had to go full width cuz 38's need more room n n
So I guess I will have to go to 60's
Well ow it's what do you all think I should be able to get for my 44's
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with my build my axle choices have changed a lot. at the begining i was going to build up my D30 and 8.25 to run 35's and then realised I'll want to go bigger later on so I decided for a HP D44 front and a D60 rear. then as my build progressed I decided that I might as well put a 60 in the front, so I bought one for $120 without axleshafts and thats what is going under the xj. Recently I decided to go with a 14bolt in the rear due to the pure strength in stock form, the 30 spline axle shafts are massive compared to the D60, the 14bolt splines are cut at 37* degrees compared to 30*deg D60 shafts, this is another strength increase.
for 38" tires yes i would say go with 60's, your d44 baljoints will see a lot of stress on big tires, not to mention a rear 60 will be full floating axle. Or you could go with a 14bolt in the rear.
I have a spare D60 rear for sale out of an 85 dodge truck sitting in my garage. its 65" WMS-WMS full floating axle. i'm not using it because I went with a 14bolt which is 67" WMS-WMS and sits under my XJ better with my 4.25`BS rims.
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jeff have you considered just selling the rubi you've got now and starting with an older, bone stock TJ?
if you're changing everything, it might be (no guarantees) easier to sell the rubi and start from scratch.....
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jeff have you considered just selling the rubi you've got now and starting with an older, bone stock TJ?
if you're changing everything, it might be (no guarantees) easier to sell the rubi and start from scratch.....
i have thought about that .. trust me i have .. what do you all think a 04 rubi with 4 inch lift 35's with all the other goodies is worth
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$5... I'll give you $10, just because you have taken such great care of it.
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$5... I'll give you $10, just because you have taken such great care of it.
5$ will get you a swift kick in the BEEP hahahahah just bugging .. come on people some serious thought would be great
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I run a full width HP44 in the front with 38’s. It is open but I wheel the squirt out of it below 5 psi with beadlocks I have a 14 in the rear and the wheel base is sitting right about 98 inches. I drive it 120km to the trail wheel all day for 2 days and drive it home. Most of the time pulling my M101 full of gear. . I have never had a problem with ball joints, u-joint or death wobble steering or anything. D44 are pretty tough, especially ones from ¾ tone trucks. And you can find parts for them anywhere. Junk yards, Napa ( in stock) and even guys on the trail. If you’re getting into the rock a lot and have the money, go D60. If your trail riding with the occasional rock and know how to drive, D44 do me just fine. Only have about 1G into the front and rear diffs including the Detroit for the 14B. Just my 2c. Either way, full width on 38’s is a must and any full size D44 will be strong then the rubi 44.
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If you are seriously considering selling, you would be best to look at going back to stock.
Your jeep is actually worth more stock.
Start with finding a stock runi that wants your gears. Have him pay about half of what it would cost to do gears and swap diffs.
You get 1000 or so dollars, and he gets gears for half price.
Put some stock rubber and suspension under it, and save all your stuff for your build, or sell it for build funds.
Sell the rubi and get into a 97-02 tj.
With the diff swap, price difference, and money from parts, you should have a minimum of 10k to go towards a 38's build.
Or you can sell you buit diffs for around 4k, tires an suspension for 1500 or so and start with 5500 towards the build.
Up to you.
It would be nice to be out of the 6 speed, mercedes steering box, late model cam sensor, and emission heavy camshaft.
The 97-99 has the most power due to a less restrictive cam profile.
Oh ya, and pre 03 models have upgradeable alternators via various junk yard swaps. The late models dont because the mounting is all changed.
Hopefully that helps.
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Its not a real D44, its a TJ D44. Strong - and will handle 38's and a 4.0. If you break it - you can fix it.
D60's and 38's are going to cost you more than you realize.
Just a question - how many times have you broke the D30?
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Its not a real D44, its a TJ D44. Strong - and will handle 38's and a 4.0. If you break it - you can fix it.
D60's and 38's are going to cost you more than you realize.
Just a question - how many times have you broke the D30?
He has 44s but is looking to move from 35s to 38's. Just to catch you up to speed...
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I want the insurance of the Dana 60 knowing that I wot break when in out in the middle of no where. My 44 has areas gone throughout factory shafts like candy and now with chromoly they have been great but the end result will
Be
Diesel engine 500 ft lbs of torque 350 hp
Dana 44 won't handle that. So that's why I want 60's
My 4.0 is not staying in there