Calgary Jeep Association
4x4 Related Groups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: specialk on September 14, 2012, 11:49:27 AM
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Second of the question of the series :-) Let the know it all's spout!
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Good quality parts, no shortcuts.
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not letting johnny in your shop! :o
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not letting johnny in your shop! :o
:'(
ZJ hate. its too bad........
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'do it right; do it once' is a stupid statement because it always varies. and thats why i hate it.
people say it to justify long arms over short arms, Claytons over rough country, Toyos over procomp. is a radius arm setup doing it 'right' over short arms?
is it 'right' to have a 5k lift kit, but stock 3.07 gears in your D30/35?
Do it right; do it once.... i think its thrown around so much (jeep forum especially) cause there is no answer to it.
example. is frasers ZJ done right because he has long arms and i have rough country? or is mine done right because i have a rear 8.8 and he has a crap D44a?
or are both done wrong because they don't have coil overs and 42s.......... (i agree with the third)
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I don't like that saying either as it implies an unlimited budget. Yes you might plan to run 35s one day but that doesn't mean you should slap a 6" radius arm kit onto your rig. There is great wisdom in building a rig as your funds AND skills allow.
By"skills" I not only mean your mechanical skills but more importantly your driving skills. I think most of us have seen what a Rubi is capable of(or not) in inexperienced hands.
Sometimes the process is more valuable than the end result.
How many times have you seen someone blow thousands of dollars rebuilding a motor because "they want it done right" just to sell the rig a year or two later and take a big hit. They could have just as easily bought a low mileage used motor for a fraction of the price.
*Please note I am NOT referring to anyone specifically here. If you think I am then take your paranoia somewhere else
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Both are doing it wrong. It is Clayton over rough country, or Toyo over pro comp, etc etc. you start with cheap parts and you will have problems down the line. Yay, you just bolted on cheap long arm kit, still going to perform like crap. The people that do it proper the first time spend more but have fewer headaches down the road. Which means less stress and more happiness on the trails instead of on jack stands. ::)
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not letting johnny in your shop! :o
Or Anton for that matter...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Do it right, do it once... Is this why Kevin has 2 kids, and Knox only one?
:o
???
Sorry loren, we still love ya ;) even if your parents might not....... ;)
I guess it also goes to show ya Kev, you should have just bought that MJ first... instead of the TJ.........
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Do it right, do it once... Is this why Kevin has 2 kids, and Knox only one?
lol
I was happy with my cheap lift untill it started sagging on one side, so I ordered new springs. Will it sag again, probably. But whats the fun in doing something once?
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I always figure that it means to buy the best parts that you can afford right now to make it do what you want it to! In 2 years you may want something different, and you'll start all over again buying parts to make it do what you want then!
The best parts in the world still wear out eventually and you'll be replacing them. Knowledge comes with experience, so you'll know what you want a bit more later on down the road, how many of your rigs are still the same from when you started modding them?
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To me the "do it once do it right" means don't half arse something... spend the time to do it right. If you're putting on wheel spacers... take the time to retorque the damn things after 50-100Km. If you are installing new gears... doing things by feel is NOT good enough. Two bolts to hold your winch on is NOT good enough no matter how hard it is to get the last 2 bolts. I'm all for redneck ingenuity to get yourself out of the bush... but when you're working on your crap in the garage... take some time/pride in what you are doing so it doesn't become a huge problem later on. It doesn't matter what the brand or type of parts you are installing ... just make sure you do it right without cutting corners or it will come back to bite you in the arse. Even if that means waiting an extra day or 2 to get the right tool/new part for the job.
I go through a lot of jeeps and its pretty amazing what some people consider "good enough" when installing or repairing things!
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To me, it means waiting a little longer and savin a few more dollars to buy a part that built to last, not a part that is built to a price point. It doesn't mean that you need to build your rig to be massive from the get-go. Take a look at some of the truly well thought out and well built rigs that we've all wheeled with. There's nothing wrong with wheeling on 33's - just build your rig to run those 33's reliably and well. Personally, I'd rather have a properly built rig on 33's and never go any bigger (and occasionally winch through something or take a bypass) than have a bogger-built POS on 37's that only makes one wheeling trip in six because it's always broken.
There's nothing wrong with (Fraser I'm going to pick on you) upgrading to a long arm suspension and leaving your craptacular stock axles in place...if you're on 33's and you wheel in a manner that doesn't bend axles and snap axle shafts. There's nothing wrong with the long arm upgrade itself - there's only something wrong if you cheap out on the long arm so that you can also spend a little bit of money on an axle "upgrade" that isn't going to last either.
To me, "Do it once, do it right" means that you won't convince yourself that a half-arsed el-cheapo JB-weld upgrade is worth doing....you'll keep the stock parts in place until you have saved the money to upgrade them properly. It doesn't mean that you can't wheel until your rig is bombproof - it just means that you should wheel in a way that is realistic based on the limitations of your rig. Skinny pedal, wheel hop, "Just a little bit more bump", and the "Jeep Dance" are all great when used by folks that have "done it once, done it right".
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I'm all for redneck ingenuity to get yourself out of the bush
...or in Kevins case to wheel for another day or two. ;D
It is what it says, whatever parts you are putting in your jeep do it once and get it right. I don't know if I've ever done that, for me it's "Do it three times; do it right".
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Personally I have avoided giving "do it right" advice for about a year now. For one, no one listens any ways until after they are on the trail with an exploded 35 that welded, or a suspension that has ripped itself apart.
Secondly, no matter how you try to explain it, you are a know it all bunghole for recommending anything other then what the OP wants to run in the first place.
I have spent hundreds of hours over the years explaining to dozens of people how to do proper suspension, steering, maintenance, and drivetrain. I can honestly say only a handfull have ever walked away and actually put that advice to use right away.
I cant count how many left my shop, bolted in their cheap crap after I advised them not to, only to see them selling said cheap crap a while later and finally go with quality components.
Johnny, your analogy is messed up. The idea is that you do your individual mods right, and do them once. So to answer your question, you've done your axle "right", and Fraser has done his suspension "right".
Short arm versus long arm, and 44's versus 8.8's are just peoples preference and both can be done right, or wrong.
You slap a stock drum brake 373 8.8 under a SOA YJ with a SBC and 39's. You fail.
Throw the same axle under a YJ with 33's and you've done it right.
Long arm a stock rubicon on 31's with rough country suspension. Fail
Short a stock rubi with johnny joint suspension. Done right.
Throw a custom inverted T steering set on a TJ cause its cheap. Wrong.
Throw a custom inverted T steering on a leaf sprung YJ. Done right.
Its a pretty simple concept. Take short cuts, or put round pegs in square holes, or cut costs where they shouldnt be cut and you are doing things wrong.
You dont have to be rich to build a jeep properly. Im proving that now with my YJ that has zero net dollars in it after purchase and is all set to be beadlocked on 35's, coil overed and linked in the front, spooled 44 rear, hp 30 aussie locked front, wj steering and brakes, chromo shafts, flat fendered, front and rear bumpers, and winched.
Gross cost to me when Im done including the trade I used to purchase it will be 6k once I include the d300 swap and tummy tuck.
I have little to no budget to work with so instead I just take my time and wait until I can do it right.
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It simply means that waiting forever while you save enough money to do it once. But, being that any stock jeep looks pretty girlish, it is necessary to do something immediately which will negate the do it once fantasy.
Simply put, its a fantasy of doing it once.
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You dont have to be rich to build a jeep properly. Im proving that now with my YJ that has zero net dollars in it after purchase and is all set to be beadlocked on 35's, coil overed and linked in the front, spooled 44 rear, hp 30 aussie locked front, wj steering and brakes, chromo shafts, flat fendered, front and rear bumpers, and winched.
Gross cost to me when Im done including the trade I used to purchase it will be 6k once I include the d300 swap and tummy tuck.
She was already a schweet YJ before all that Bill. Wish my numbers added up the same way ;)
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Its a pretty simple concept. Take short cuts, or put round pegs in square holes, or cut costs where they shouldnt be cut and you are doing things wrong.
I think Billy pretty much nailed this one to the wall.
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It simply means that waiting forever while you save enough money to do it once. But, being that any stock jeep looks pretty girlish, it is necessary to do something immediately which will negate the do it once fantasy.
Simply put, its a fantasy of doing it once.
They can still take steps Tom. Unless they just have to have 35's and lockers out of the gate.
Look at a TJ. Its easy to do it right, and still get it on 33's almost instantly for no more then a few hundred plus tires.
Small body lift, mml, home made disco's, and 30$ worth of spring spacers will put a jeep on 33's functionally for the beginner.
Progressing to a 3" spring via OME or AEV or who ever, couple with adjustable uppers front and rear for pinion and caster runs less then 1000$, and no more then a 1/2" of down spacer needs to be used on the belly pan until an SYE can be done.
Add steering for 400 whenever.
Do LCA's for 500 when budget provides.
Do the SYE and driveshaft for 600 next.
etc etc
Whatever order you want.
The point being, to many guys want a 4" lift on 35's right out of the gate but dont have the budget to drop 3-4k and have it done right. Or they do have the money but they drop it at a shop and get hosed on crap parts if they are new and dont specify what they want.
I mean really. A TJ loses the girl look as soon as you bolt agressive 31's on it like a stock rubicon.
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i see what you are saying Billy. i took the question to mean do it once complete. Steps work too but it still means that every suspension/tire change means it was not a do it once project.
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I think you have to be pretty loaded to do it all at once, and thats completely unrealistic for pretty much anyone.
I interpret that from a mod to mod perspective.I would say it gets used more often when making recommendations to people regarding a singular mod then complete builds.