Calgary Jeep Association

Author Topic: Regearing  (Read 6068 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Jaguar

  • Guest
Regearing
« on: November 18, 2005, 09:51:04 AM »
Alright, so when you go up a tire size you need/should regear to get back power and gas mileage, right? What's the downside to regearing? Like, why does't Jeep just throw 4.11s in all their stock TJs while keeping stock tires to improve gas mileage? The only thing I could think of, is that Regearing prolly reduces Torque???

Offline Spinalguy

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2759
    • http://www.spinalguy.com
Regearing
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 09:53:34 AM »
Because only rubicons come with 31" tires which are the perfect match for 4.11 gears.
With 4cyl jeeps, they all come with 4.11 gears.
Tom
sent from my old school rotary dial phone.

Jaguar

  • Guest
Regearing
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2005, 09:58:30 AM »
But, if you took a stock sport, with 3.07s and threw 4.11s in with the same tires, would you not get better gas mileage?

Offline cablesmurf

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1538
  • Relapsed Jeep Addict
Regearing
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2005, 10:36:02 AM »
No, it would increase your RPM's therefore, decreasing your gas mileage. The lower gears (numerically higher) are to compensate for larger diameter tires, which will decrease your RPM's. ie: increase tires size, decrease the gear ratio.

In my research I have based my opinion that...

based on a 4.0L standard tranny:

- 3:07 = 27-29" tires
- 3:55 = 29-30" tires
- 3:73 = 30-31" tires
- 4:10 = 31-33" tires
- 4:56 = 33-35" tires
- 4:88 = 35-36" tires
- 5:13 = 37" and up

based on a 4.0L Automatic tranny:

- 3:55 = 27-29" tires
- 3:73 = 29-30" tires
- 4:10 = 30-31" tires
- 4:56 = 31-33" tires
- 4:88 = 33-36" tires
- 5:13 = 37" and up

Based on a 2.5L standard:

- 4:10 = 27-30" tires
- 4:56 = 30-32" tires
- 4:88 = 33-35" tires
- 5:13 = 36" and up

Based on a 2.5L Automatic:

- 4:10 = 27-29" tires
- 4:56 = 30-32" tires
- 4:88 = 33-35" tires
- 5:13 = 35" and up

Again, these are just my opinion, others may disagree, but it should help with your question.

Dan
Hi, my name is Dan and I'm a Jeepaholic

Offline TJ54

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1689
    • http://community.webshots.com/user/tj54jeep
Regearing
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 10:43:41 AM »
I'm assuming the stock sport has a 4.0L as the 2.5L's come with 4.10's. I believe the 4.0L powerband is at  alot lower rpm than the 2.5L

In theory you would probably get better gas mileage, but in practice you will probably have more fun as the jeep will accelerate and burn rubber easier, and you will burn more gas. Going from 3.07's to 4.10 would drastically raise your rpm's at a given speed, with stock tires. Therefore the engine rpm would be very high at highway speeds, for the 4.0L

I once changed the gears in a F150 from 3.08's to 3.73 to help with towing, which it did well, but it really changed the driving characterictics of the pick up. Accelerating faster and lowering the top speed. When I drove it nicely, gas mileage improved.

With 4.10's and small stock tires it would also be hard to crawl in 4 low.

It looks like cablesmurf and myself disagree on gas mileage. So I think you should go ahead and re-gear and let us know what happens :wink:
But I totally agree on his gearing suggestions for all around performance
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.

Offline BlackYJ

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 3392
    • http://www3.telus.net/ccjc/page0002.html
Regearing
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 11:21:52 AM »
Anytime power goes through a gear reduction, torque is increased by that reduction.  Gear ratios in relation to power and gas mileage is a balancing action with tire size.  Put in lower gears with smaller tires and you will have a torquey little beast that is great off-road, but gas mileage will most likely suffer and not be very good at highway speeds because the engine is reving very high.  Now put in higher gears (numerically lower) with the same tire size and you will have a nice power band, that is good at high speed and good on gas mileage, but off-road not very good.  

There are tables on the out there that show the relationship between gear ratio and tire sizes and shows whether you are in the power side or fuel efficient side.  Here go to this link, scroll down and click on "Gear Ratio Guide for Larger Tires" it explains a lot

http://www.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/sgdynamo.exe?HTNAME=tech_corner.html&checked=Y

Also the reason the 4 banger come with 4.10s and the 4.0L don't is because Jeep is trying to compensate for the lack of power in the 4 banger with gearing.  The 4.0L with 4.10s and stock tires would be VERY torquey and BAD on the highway and on gas mileage.
'95 YJ with a few mods

Offline apex

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1190
Regearing
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 06:27:35 PM »
I wouldn't mind throwning my two cents in here. I get exceptionally poor gas mileage from my 3.07's and 33's due to under gearing. The added weight mixed the improper gearing land a lead foot leaves me with a flooded engine. This wastes a lot of fuel and kills my economy, but then again, it's a 50 year old engine design, you should expect much.  

its a balance between tourque and fuel economy. gotta find the middle ground somewhere.

Jaguar

  • Guest
Regearing
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2005, 10:19:27 AM »
Woah, sweet! thanks for the info guys! This cleared up alot of things for me. I can definately see why it's easier to snap axle shafts with the larger tires and lower gears...... But with my little 4cyl, I don't think I'll have to worry about that too much :)

LoKi

  • Guest
Regearing
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2005, 04:18:24 PM »
so... i just put 31" a/t's on my 01 TJ Sport (4.0L) manual transmission.

should i re-gear now?

lol, i swear if anybody has a computer question, i can help... but i'm lost here with this stuff.

i'll owe lots of people free computer tech support if they can help me out! :D

-Andre

Offline BlackYJ

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 3392
    • http://www3.telus.net/ccjc/page0002.html
Regearing
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2005, 11:34:52 AM »
Don't waste the money, are about looking at about $1500-2000 to regear both front and rear for parts and labour.  I would wait until you go to 33s or 35s.  Just add performance parts like high flow intake and exhaust and these will take care of most of the power lost.
'95 YJ with a few mods

Offline Milan

  • CJA Members
  • UberWheeler
  • Posts: 488
Regearing
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2005, 02:23:05 PM »
Quote from: "Apex"
.... This wastes a lot of fuel and kills my economy, but then again, it's a 50 year old engine design, you should expect much.  

its a balance between tourque and fuel economy. gotta find the middle ground somewhere.


It's definitely a balance thing. That 50 yr old technology was, on my TJ and in stock form, capable of 23-24mpg. TJD60's was getting 24-25mpg. For a 4.0L engine that's not bad at all considering some of the new vehicles get this mileage or even slightly better but in an under 2.0L package and a light unibody car. I don't buy this "outdated engine technology" mindset at all. The older TJs were more economical than the newer (2000+) TJs and Rubicons. And with a regular distributor. Go figure. I believe the 4.0L engine to be quite economical in its class and even better than some smaller class engines. People modify vehicles, make them heavier, harder to roll down the road and then blame "old technology". The new manufacturing "standards" also amuse me. Make the vehicle heavier, slower and then wonder why the economy suffers. So let's throw more electronic gizmos in the mix to fix this. Making it even heavier and more complicated and less efficient as soon as one of those componenets is in less than 100% shape. Shame.
Keep on Jeepin'

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
Regearing
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2005, 12:39:02 PM »
Quote from: "Milan"
Quote from: "Apex"
.... This wastes a lot of fuel and kills my economy, but then again, it's a 50 year old engine design, you should expect much.  

its a balance between tourque and fuel economy. gotta find the middle ground somewhere.


It's definitely a balance thing. That 50 yr old technology was, on my TJ and in stock form, capable of 23-24mpg. TJD60's was getting 24-25mpg. For a 4.0L engine that's not bad at all considering some of the new vehicles get this mileage or even slightly better but in an under 2.0L package and a light unibody car. I don't buy this "outdated engine technology" mindset at all. The older TJs were more economical than the newer (2000+) TJs and Rubicons. And with a regular distributor. Go figure. I believe the 4.0L engine to be quite economical in its class and even better than some smaller class engines. People modify vehicles, make them heavier, harder to roll down the road and then blame "old technology". The new manufacturing "standards" also amuse me. Make the vehicle heavier, slower and then wonder why the economy suffers. So let's throw more electronic gizmos in the mix to fix this. Making it even heavier and more complicated and less efficient as soon as one of those componenets is in less than 100% shape. Shame.


Its not so much that its outdated tech milan, its that its old tech. But its old tried and true stuff that still works, which IMO, makes it far from outdated.

The 4.0 has seen very few changes over the past 50 years.

Yes there are some older 4.0's that get slightly better milage, but there are also some key differences in those motors.

Those same older 4.0's are not the ones making 195hp and 240lbs of torque.

Most importantly, they arent making these numbers at the same rpm the older version made similar numbers.

I have not driven many older 4.0's that my 03 wouldnt walk all over, in stock form, or how it is now. But the cost of the changed cam timming, additional torque and hp is milage of course.

The 4.0  is still 100lbs heavier then a cast iron small block v8. As much as 300lbs heavier then the new aluminum versions that are out there.

There is no variable valve timming available for 4 litres.

There are no stock 4 litres comming out with aluminum heads, aliminum blocks, or rollerized valve trains. Mustangs have been rollerized since 84 or earlier.

The things mentioned above are becomming standard in a lot of engines, meaning the current tech used on 4 litres is still very basic and old school.

With the exception of an upgraded head around 1993, and the removel of the distributer in 02, there has been little to no change technology wise in the 4 litre for 50 years. Unless you count the addition of more and more computerized ignition timming and cat converters to decrease emission new tech. Which I dont as those things are external add ons.

If you spec out a crane cam for a 4 litre, have a look at cranes listing.

"AMC 4 litre, 1965 - presesnt"

Not even a sb chevy can do that, since they changed a lot of the bearing journals and what not after 69.

Like the saying goes, you cant get blood from a stone.

Without drastic changes to the ignition timming, valve train and timming, internal component compositions, etc etc etc, the 4.0 will pretty much stay the way it is. Not great on fuel but durable, reliable, and a very healthy lowend torque motor.

thats my 2 cents anyways.
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
Regearing
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2005, 12:42:08 PM »
Oh, and one more tid bit.

The older tjs were already electronic ignitions. The removal of the dristributer simply consolidated some parts and allowed for the computer to have mroe control over ignition timming during warm up.

Both sparks are already strong enough that a change to either doesnt really make a difference.

Not like swapping out traditional points for something like a chevy HEI system does, where it doubles or triples the power of the spark, allowing for a much more efficient burn.
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

80CJ

  • Guest
Regearing
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2005, 01:41:08 PM »
Good info Bill. Man apparently knows his stuff.

Offline apex

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1190
Regearing
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2005, 02:24:10 PM »
ya... but who asked you anyways Bill

  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

just kiddin. Good 'nfo. I want more info on the Cam mods.

As for you Milan... yer heavier, slower, and technically built from outdated technology but we still put up with you.  

 :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:

j/k

 :D  :D  :D