Any new projects!? Lets get something going for July 24th / 25th!

[JackstandJohnny]

well Aaron.

  did someone squirt in your frosted flakes?  you are all riled up this morning.

heres what history has taught us.

DO NOTHING, TRAILS GET CLOSED  


Do something................... who knows;  seems everytime people get the initiative to do something they get shut down by everyone else that has an opinion on the idea, or 'has been there before'  

personally, i dont' care about what you've done and whats failed.  i'm learning from one KEY lesson. do nothing, trails get closed.   keep yelling about this and that regarding ASRD etc.  Maybe i'll be joining you one day after I/we've failed because we frackin put a fence incorectly, or a mudhole drained into a nest of endangered frackin birds.


i don't like your solution Aaron.  we're all busy enough, its tough to get stuff organized and together.  maybe you want to organize a trail project? i vote you in right now if you'll help in those initiatives.  i'll help where i can.   but DON'T TELL OTHERS TO NOT contribute and to PIGGYBACK on the club.  We dont' have time for it.

Mclean is on the chopping block. we all know that. sitting on our computers does not fix problems.  groups of people fixing trails is a step in the right direction.  if runoff is pooling on a trail, drain it.  you dont' need a frackin' bioengineering degree for that.

we are in the process of taking initiave in mclean to make sure this sh!T doesn't happen like it did in Waiparous.    I will support anyone that wants to get involved be it draining runoff, or fixing fences.  


I do not support anyone waiting for others to 'do the work' etc.  


FWIW, we are working on a few more projects there.  yes, Aaron, i'll be leading these.


frack you guys, stop web wheeling.

[OffRoadNewbie]

THANKS Johnny !!!!!!!!

[Pookapotamus]

well said johnny.

[01sahara]

Thanks for posting Johnny and thanks to all for your efforts. I have been on vacation the last two weeks and will chat with Johnny on Saturday so he can start planning stuff.

Back ground info from my experience dealing with ASRD.  This is just my opinion from experience and not rules and could be subject to change.

If you are out for the day and stop to fix an existing fence that needs some minor repair is likely cool but a note to ASRD so they know you fixed it is a good thing.  Putting up new fence or anything else that involves adding infrastructure (new fence, signs, posts, work on water crossings) requires approval in writing from ASRD.  A TFA from the ASRD office needs to be issued giving permission for the work. This is for safety reasons, limits conflicts with other users and allows them to track the work being done. Then they can give credit where credit is due. In the past they have taken issue with new fence going up without permission. They also appreciate our efforts to clean up the area but ask we report abandon vehicles without moving them. This gives them a chance to pass the info on to the RCMP before we move stuff. They often come back and ask for our help after to move it but need to follow procedure.

There is a form that can be filled out to get a TFA for field work. Johnny and I will set something up in the short term.

Draining holes is also a difficult issue. Yes, we often drain water out of individual holes as we run trails and this is a good thing for maintaing the trails so we don't end up with multiple bypasses. A large effort to re-work a section of trails or a problem area requires a TFA. It’s all about the scale of what you are doing.

Cheers,
Blair

[mrjeep4]

Efforts from anyone are greatly appreciated ...   However with any project  there is some red tape to go through.     
like Blair said

If you are out for the day and stop to fix an existing fence that needs some minor repair is likely cool

   
From my understanding anything more then that  and people involved  could be at risk of of getting fined for working without the proper permissions.  There's also the insurance risks and without it being and actual CJA event there is no coverage.  (to you ... or other vehicles/people around when your doing the work)

The last thing i want to do is discourage people .. especially new prospective members to come out and help.   The sit back and do nothing " perspective"  is not one I look too highly on.   As for getting a project like this started ...    it sounds simple        but sadly it isn't.   The best way to getting involved is coming up with ideas like this..    Having discussions and see what's needed from people with experience heading trail projects.  Then finally going out and doing the work. 

No one's done anything wrong here ...       Other then someone with 10 + years  shitting on "newbs"   for having the ambition you've lost years ago. 

Eric  CJA prez 

[apeman]

Like i said before...think its great that newer faces are willing to head out and fix what needs to be done...but there is a time and place...forming a posse isnt a good idea...there is alot to be considered...12 people with pickaxes and shovels just having at er' isnt advised..as the 2 previous posts indicate...im willing to help as i have done for many years previous...but at the right time.

I like kitties!

[apeman]

P.s. i do apologize if i did crap on anyone for having the ambition to get things done...we all started somewhere...and helping to protect the trail system we have is probably the best place to start. Good on yah for the suggestion...maybe an organised weekend with a solid plan in place ? Im in, and i see that there are alot of others willing to put the time in as well.

[TL-Iguana]

I didn't start this post to tread on toes, nor did I start it to kiss any ones arse. The fact is, My jeeps broke, and I haven't even been wheeling behind the wheel (I've been a passenger on a couple club runs) with you guys as I haven't had the time or the cash flow to fix my steering. So even if I was trying to suck up to the exec, I don't even have any runs in 

The whole reason this post was started in the first place was because I wanted to volunteer my time to do what seems right for everyone to continue to enjoy the extensive trail system that we have so close to home.  I appreciate all the input in here and I do feel we are doing this for a good cause. Draining the holes was only a suggestion that came up, and I don't think anyone here would say that we are going out to drain every single one. We did encounter some bomb holes the last time we were out, and it was decided by the members and execs that were on the run at the time to drain it off, so as to not further the damage done by everyone bypassing it. Of  course there are good and bad sides to any idea, and through this forum its been a great way to discuss both points of view. I whole heartedly agree with everyone here that we need to be very careful in how we go about doing this for both insurance purposes, and for the good of the club. No one wants to bother the ASRD, we all know how they view our sport...

Now not being a member of course I don't know whats best, for the CJA, and I am not trying to come across that way at all. This is why I started the post. It was to hear what the execs had to say as well as other members about getting a project together. It was a suggestion for something to do over the weekend that would benefit us all, members and non members alike. Whether its fixing the fence, picking up trash along the way, or draining the odd hole that swallowed someone, its all for a good cause in the end. It only seems logical that with the proper people in place on the run if it takes place, we will be looked upon as doing this for a good cause, because none of us want to lose what it is we have. You can bet that as long as my work schedule is willing, for any club sanctioned fixes that do come up, ill still be there, putting in my own time and money to help everyone out. I really do see good in the execs and a lot of the members here, and If i didn't think it was a worthy cause, I would not be a forum member.

I would really like to be at the next Wednesday meeting, but it will be very hard for me to get that night off from work... Perhaps it can be brought up then by the execs that are going to be present what it is we should and should not do out there, if anything so that we have some guidance in doing whats best for the CJA and not ourselves as individuals? If it is decided then that going for a run is a good idea, and fixing the fence is Ok for us to do without offending the ASRD then I am happy to do just that. Perhaps this way we can get some solid guidance on what would be a good plan, and we can have a properly organized run set up to accomplish a common goal.

[01sahara]

Looked at carefully, where is the water and sediments going. Will the new drainage cause future erosion problems?

 I put in a call to ASRD today and will update at the next meeting what I hear back from them. I wanted to see what’s been reported to them that needs maintenance and what other groups may be working on.

Thanks to all for help. not every little thing needs a TFA but if we keep info flowing with ASRD then we get credit for whats being done.

Cheers

[Hi Lo Silver]

well Aaron.

  did someone squirt in your frosted flakes?  you are all riled up this morning.

heres what history has taught us.

DO NOTHING, TRAILS GET CLOSED  

This capitalized comment is the one thing that caught my eye while reading all the posts on this entire thread this afternoon. JohnnyC nothing too personal, BUT WHERE EXACTLY HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS or more?  Not including the last 3 or so years when some clubs think working with ASRD is just the cats meow.

Until ASRD and the Alberta government got on a big frenzy to close entire areas down to FOURxFOURS there was hundreds of people putting in hundreds of hours at volunteer days put on by AURS (which now doesn't exist due to none other than ASRD stabbing us in the back and ignoring our efforts.)

I get so steamed when people not knowing the history of trails around here make comments like the one you've made.

Do something................... who knows;  seems everytime people get the initiative to do something they get shut down by everyone elsle that has an opinion on the idea, or 'has been there before'  

personally, i dont' care about what you've done and whats failed.  i'm learning from one KEY lesson. do nothing, trails get closed.   keep yelling about this and that regarding ASRD etc.  Maybe i'll be joining you one day after I/we've failed because we frackin put a fence incorectly, or a mudhole drained into a nest of endangered frackin birds.


i don't like your solution Aaron.  we're all busy enough, its tough to get stuff organized and together.  maybe you want to organize a trail project? i vote you in right now if you'll help in those initiatives.  i'll help where i can.   but DON'T TELL OTHERS TO NOT contribute and to PIGGYBACK on the club.  We dont' have time for it.

Mclean is on the chopping block. we all know that. sitting on our computers does not fix problems.  groups of people fixing trails is a step in the right direction.  if runoff is pooling on a trail, drain it.  you dont' need a frackin' bioengineering degree for that.

we are in the process of taking initiave in mclean to make sure this sh!T doesn't happen like it did in Waiparous.    I will support anyone that wants to get involved be it draining runoff, or fixing fences.  


I do not support anyone waiting for others to 'do the work' etc.  


FWIW, we are working on a few more projects there.  yes, Aaron, i'll be leading these.


frack you guys, stop web wheeling.

[Spinalguy]

Here is the deal.
Maclean is now a LEGAL OHV area for 4x4's. All OHV communities have been tasked to make the area sustainable within 2 years (the clock is running).

So far the Bike community has been very busy out there. They will have made every trail given to them sustainable by the end of this month.

The Quad and 4x4 communities have done very little.

Having a pickaxe and shovel with you makes sense. Having a chainsaw to clear any deadfall makes sense. Doing minor things every time you are out there makes sense. If we all wait to have meetings to discuss what we heard from other meetings while we wait to see what the outcomes are from those meetings so we can call to order another meeting ....

Now Gun and Apeman, i get it. You are bitter!!!! i do not blame you.
But get the frick over it, this is not Waiporous nor is it Indian Graves.  

Maybe if we all just went and did something in Maclean, we might actually have it around for years to come. IF WE DO NOT, you will LOSE it very soon.
And than they will all go to your SECRET never mention on public site PLACES.

Is that what you want?

Get over yourself and encourage a group of NEW 4x4 enthusiasts to go out and do something. Remember when Clay and Evolution went and did something like bring a disposal bin to the 5km mark, build fences to close off access to riparian areas and drag out 5 burnt vehicles to the Road?
They did it without permission and SRD was upset but guess what????It was done!!!!

OR

Maybe we can just have more meetings...


Gun, i challenge you to ask your American wheelin buddies how they would deal with an area the size of Maclean that has no entrance fees and is LEGAL to go play in but needs to be sustained or they would lose it...
i BET everyone of them would be out there doing something. You hold the power at FWS, do not let your burning bitterness HELP lose yet another area so that the DESTRUCTION makes it way to areas you LOVE. Get your club on board at Maclean. We are LUCKY to have such an area close to Calgary.

i know MANY thousands of Americans that would DIE to have Maclean.

[Hi Lo Silver]

I guess it would be much easier to "get over it" if I were willing to change coats to a different means of recreation. Not willing to do that just yet.

I'm not on the exec this year so you're disillusioned of any power you think I hold.

I see alot of enthusiasm in the CJA but nothing stirs me more than someone that comments about nothing done and trails will be closed. That's just plain nieve.

It is still all about Indian Graves, Waiparous  and still about any other hundreds of areas they have closed.

Tom, would it not be much easier to keep a single track sustainable with only single track traffic allowed, compared to a 4x4 trail when you have quads and bikes also using them. I wonder how many more users would be counted on a 4x4 trail even if its just to cut across or run along to access a single track or quad trail. That's the greatest challenge.
If you want to compare to the US a bit then look at all the trails and areas like Moab and Colorado that don't even allow quads and bikes on them. Probably be easier again to find volunteers to keep a designated 4x4 trail sustainable. Thats why bikes and quads are so willing to work on their trails.

[Hi Lo Silver]

For those that have missed it, the above post has been further edited. I had a bit more to say after supper.

[Spinalguy]

Gun, i will never help with 4x4 projects in Waip but i have shown up for a project in Maclean. i also offered my help in 'signing' the trails for 4x4's before Quads sign them for themselves or Govt closes them.
i may not recreate with 4 wheels but i will never stop helping keep things open. i think its a shame we have something so big and so close to Calgary and it will remain OPEN if we sustain it.
At least AURS, sustained it yearly.

i know you are not Prez, but i bet my house that if you rallied FWS to get into Maclean and just do minimal thinks like drainage, clear blow down, etc...
THEY WOULD!  

PS to others. Every rider i know, rides with a hand saw. We also often go out with chainsaws to maintain our trails.
We don't have meetings to decide, we just do it. We are independents and do not represent anyone when we are out there doing the 'right' thing.

Apeman, i think if anyone on a bike, quad or 4x4 came upon a group of 10 jeepers draining holes, clearing blowdown, etc...they would be PRAISED and the 4x4 community would get a big thumbs up.

[Spinalguy]

edit...
i just saw your response. Let me answer in a few. i have patients waiting...

ok, i am back.
First i need to make it clear that Blair (01sahara) has to follow the protocol of SRD as a REP of CJA. He has no choice, so red tape cutting is needed for him to officially give a green light.
i do not think this should be a CJA or 4WS endeavor but if you are concerned 4x4 enthusiasts...go do it (minor stuff)

For bigger projects, SRD needs to give the TFA to do it. And maybe FWS and CJA and Independents can organize a group weekend?

Gun, singletrack is easier and harder to maintain. We have to bridge EVERY water crossing no matter how small. Getting material there is a huge effort. As for traffic, every old timer that rode Maclean 3+ years ago will tell you its absolutely BOMBED from so MANY frickin riders. Before, we never had to put the trails on the map. 80% were unknown, now with the map, everyone can find the less traveled trails. It sucks
i ride elsewhere as often as i can.