WJ Dana 30 diff. problems.. with pics

[jeepers26]

hi guys,  Just wondering if anyone can help me out.. my Dana 30 in my WJ is acting up... earlier this week I noticed when pulling out of the garage that the drivetrain was binding up about every 3 or 4 feet....EDIT.. IT ONLY DOES THIS IN REVERSE!   I have taken every thing apart and after I popped the diff cover off I noticed some pretty good gouges out of the carrier...   So I am wondering if it is an inner or outer pinion bearing or a Carrier bearing.. I would like to just buy a whole master rebuild kit... would anyone know of where they would have one in stock for a WJ Dana 30 front?
any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.. thanks. Brad

[jeepers26]

I am assuming that either, the outer or inner pinion bearing or one of the carrier bearings is shot allowing the carrier to move back and rub the pinion shaft or the pinion shaft to move forward and rub the carrier... which would probably explain the problem of binding in reverse...right? no? anyone seen this before?

[dac]

The ring gear teeth "look" ok.  Hard to tell.  What does seem odd is that the scratches in the carrier look deeper than the pin.... which is not scratched.

How's the oil in there?  Clean looking?  I think you might be looking in the wrong place for this problem.

[jeepers26]

oil looks good... everything in the front end of my WJ is new within last 5-6 months... axle shafts, unit bearings, upper/lower ball joints, drag links, tie rods, steering stabilizer... I was on some other jeep forums and there was a guy with the same symptoms as mine and he said his was a drive shaft issue... now I just finished replacing all the U-joints in the front DS a couple of months ago and it appears to be in good shape.. those gouges are new since the binding and the only thing I can think of is that the pinion shafts is taking chunks out of the Carrier in reverse.. drives perfectly forward no noise or anything...

[Pookapotamus]

the scratches in the carrier look like factory casting marks, they look identical to the carriers that i just removed from my d30 and d44. also there is an absence of scratching on the pin so it does not look like the scratching is new.

what was the condition of the oil? many bits in it?

the binding in reverse might be the viscous coupling in the transfercase although i am not sure that the wj ever came with a full time transfercase, perhapse some one can clarify.

if the bearing was so bad as to allow the carrier to hit the pinion you would have much bigger problems than a binding in reverse. also the pinion is not exactly close to the carrier its about half an inch away and the bearing would have to be compleatly disintigrated to allow the carrier to hit the pinon.

we need more information to help with your problem, again whats the oil like? what are the ujoints like? do you have a double cardan joint? it it is shot it could be causing the binding. oh and describe the binding, what exactly does it do?

the more i think on this the more i dont think your problem is in the diff. i agree with dac that your problem is elswhere give us some more information plz.

pook

[Pookapotamus]

here is a quick test drop your front drive shaft and back up, no binding means its the shaft. if it still binds it could be the transfercase. try with out the rear shaft with just the front in. this way you can figure out where its coming from.

Pook

[jeepers26]

thanks Pook I will try that...Its a double carden shaft and all the U-joints were changed about 3 months ago or so...but I guess anything can happen...

[Pookapotamus]

those double cardans can be tricky keep us informed

[CatSplat]

What transfer case do you have? Is it binding up in a straight line, or only during turns?

[jeepers26]

It's a NP247 t case.   
both straight line and turning.. only in reverse.

[jeepers26]

Did you buy the jeep used? Just a thought that who ever had it last might have just " tightned" up the pinion nut to dump it? Does it wine or howl driving down the road,slightly off and on the throttle, just because those marks aren't normal I'm pretty sure? Correct me if I'm wrong please. 

The Jeep was used but I have had it for like 3 years now and I have done all the work myself... doesn't whine or howl at all..

this is just a problem that popped up earlier this week.. I didn't think that the marks on the carrier were normal either.  I don't remember them there before..

[Pookapotamus]

OK so i had to go and look at my old carrier to see if i had any of the same marks on mine.

as you can see i don't but it is also a different design being from a 92 xj.

so i checked the 44 carrier.

and i did find some of the same marks on it, now this carrier howled a little bit (outer pinion bearing) but had no problems whatsoever and the design looks similar to your d30.

also to explain what i was talking about with the spacing between the carrier and pinion i have mocked up my d30.

as you can see the pinion is approximately 7/16th to ½" away from the carrier which makes it fairly impossible for the carrier and the pinion to touch with out making such a horrible noise that you have not stopped to see which tire has fallen off.

now the scratches on your carrier are also parallel to its rotation, and if they were made from contacting the pinion not only would you find lots of metal in the oil and hear awful noises from your front end but the scratches would be slightly angled and curved due to the pinion rotating while in contact with the carrier. also the scratches would look fresh and be silvery instead of a dull grey.

so hopefully i have put to bed your issues with the scratches on your carrier as you have said that you dont have any howling or whining at all.

now this binding? what is it exactly? is it a front wheel hop? and where does it sound like its coming from? (obviously the front as you have been looking at your pumpkin) but noises in the drive line can be tricky and transfer to other places.

you said you just did ujoints in the front shaft, is it possible one joint was different and you did not notice? (stupid question did you grease them?) did you replace the double cardan? if not what shap was it in? do you grease after wheeling? when did you replace the rear ujoints?

you say that it is both straight line and turning, the zj's with the viscous coupling in the transfer case start having wheel hop when turning sharp as a first indication that the vc is going. if yours is not doing this or did this then i woiuld take a good look at both drive shafts, and as i said before run with out a front shaft and see if the noise goes away.

and maybe someone who is a practicing profesional mechanic can chime in and correct or confirm my theory as i have not worked as a mechanic in years. billy? heeps?

pook

[CatSplat]

you say that it is both straight line and turning, the zj's with the viscous coupling in the transfer case start having wheel hop when turning sharp as a first indication that the vc is going. if yours is not doing this or did this then i woiuld take a good look at both drive shafts, and as i said before run with out a front shaft and see if the noise goes away.

I was also wondering about the possibility of the TC binding up, but his 247 doesn't use a viscous coupling unit like the 249 (which is known for binding up on turns) does. The 247 uses a gerotor pump to transfer torque and CAN bind if the fluid is in need of a change or the wrong fluid is used. (247's actually require dealer-specific fluid to finction properly - ATF+4 won't do the trick.) That said, if it was binding in turns it would make sense, but "binding" in a straight line and only one direction doesn't make sense for a TC coupling issue.

I hate to say it, but it's possible it could be a transmission problem. I'd check everything else first, though.

[jeepers26]

ok guys so I have this one figured out and boy was I looking in the wrong spot!!!! kinda fumed off about this... Had my rig into Price 4x4 here in Sundre complaining of some noises coming from the front end... turns out it was just a unitbearing.  Since the had the diff. apart already, I told them to go ahead and change both the unitbearings, know damn well it was gonna cost me an arm and a leg for something I have done many times before...anyways turns out, when I was taking everything apart this time trying to figure out what all this binding was, I noticed that one of the bolts that holds the caliper bracket on was just kinda sitting in the hole and not threaded.. didn't think much of it at the time just figured that they forgot to tighten it up.... continued on pulling brakes off, hubs off, axle shafts out and diff drained then thats when I got on the forum here trying to come up with some solutions.. everything moved nice and freely... Pook suggested taking the front DS out so I did... putting everything back together and almost done,  go to throw the passenger side tire on and I notice a pretty good gouge all the way around the inside of the rim... then I put 2 and 2 together.. that bolt that was just sitting there, wasn't in at all and when placing the vehicle in reverse the brakes would grab a bit and let the whole bracket and caliper to pivot back on the bottom bolt, digging the caliper into the inside of the rim!!!
So in the end am super fumed and super relieved..fumed that Price 4x4 would strip the threads on the bolt and not tell me and put it back together like that, and it turned out that I spent a day and a half looking in the wrong f-ing place!   Relieved though that it was nothing major!

Thanks to Pook and everyone that tried helping me out!!
To bad the weekend is almost over and I didn't even get to get out like I was planning...

[CatSplat]

Hah, glad you got her figured out.