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Offline Vinman

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Starts then stalls
« on: November 19, 2011, 09:24:16 PM »
05 Rubicon, starts then idles extremely low then stall, won't let me touch the gas pedal without stalling.

I haven't driven this jeep yet but did let it idle for about 45 minutes a couple of weeks ago just to get it up to temp and ensure no problems.
I started it this morning and put it outside, ran fine then. This afternoon I went to bring it back in and it stalled as soon as I tried to move it. I thought it was out of gas so poured 5 gals in and no change. Thought maybe frozen gas line (temps and 0 F) and put gas line antifreeze in, no change.

I cycle the key 3 times and get "done" in the odometer display so I assume no codes. I have disconnected the neg battery cable and held it against the positive to reset the computer and still no run.

I also tried to ride the starter in 4 low but i stll have to press the clutch pedal to get the starter engages so obviously that didn't work.

Any ideas?



Vince


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Offline frenchy

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2011, 09:38:21 PM »
Did you get a new key cut?
Aftermarket security systems often cause similar issues.
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Offline Vinman

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2011, 09:44:18 PM »
Quote from: frenchy on November 19, 2011, 09:38:21 PM
Did you get a new key cut?
Aftermarket security systems often cause similar issues.

Nope,  no new key or any other change, it ran fine this morning when I moved it outside.

I tried to move it back in after you guys left and it felt like it ran out of gas, ran for a bit then stalled, ran for shorter time than stalled and now it won't even start.
I wonder if the fuel pump quit?
I have it almost back in the garage now and will get it in there tonight.
At this point I just want to get it inside where I can diagnse whats wrong.

You guys get that bench off ok?
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Quote from: Bnine link=topic=25904.msg162940#msg162940      date=1341881306
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Offline frenchy

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2011, 10:14:57 PM »
Bench slid out of the dump trailer much easier then getting it in. Thanks again!

I can't recall if the '05 has the fuel pressure check valve on the fuel rail, if so, press in the valve with a screwdriver while key is on. Might be able to tell if pressure is good or really low.  (dribble Vs. Squirt)
If pressure is good I'd check / replace crank position sensor first, it's easy and cheap. But it should spit out a code eventually, I've seen it take some time for code to appear.

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Offline Vinman

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2011, 10:52:46 PM »
Quote from: frenchy on November 19, 2011, 10:14:57 PM
Bench slid out of the dump trailer much easier then getting it in. Thanks again!

I can't recall if the '05 has the fuel pressure check valve on the fuel rail, if so, press in the valve with a screwdriver while key is on. Might be able to tell if pressure is good or really low.  (dribble Vs. Squirt)
If pressure is good I'd check / replace crank position sensor first, it's easy and cheap. But it should spit out a code eventually, I've seen it take some time for code to appear.



Unfortunately the 05's do not have the pressure valve on the rail. I'll play with it tomorrow.

Glad to hear the bench came off without incident.

Vince
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Offline Vinman

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 02:47:42 PM »
Sat in the heated garage overnight and fired right up this morning (the Jeep, not me). I'm chalking this up to a frozen fuel line although the second thing I did (after putting gas in) was pour in a bottle of gasline anti-freeze.

Vince
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Offline cLAY

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 08:19:10 PM »
Gas line antifreeze doesn't help if the line is already frozen. It won't thaw a frozen line, its a preventitive measure. Now that some has made it into the line it probably won't re-freeze.
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Offline Vinman

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 08:48:26 PM »
Quote from: cLAY on November 20, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
Gas line antifreeze doesn't help if the line is already frozen. It won't thaw a frozen line, its a preventitive measure. Now that some has made it into the line it probably won't re-freeze.

I disagree, I used to have an old '80 Toyota 4x4 back in the day in Ontario and it used to freeze up on a regular basis. I would try to start it and no start. I would pour a bottle of antifreeze into the tank and by the time I got back in the truck, it would start immediately EVERY time.

Vince
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Offline cLAY

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2011, 09:13:17 PM »
<shrug> Don't see how its possible but ok......
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Offline binare

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2011, 09:17:43 PM »
Quote from: Vinman on November 20, 2011, 08:48:26 PM
I disagree, I used to have an old '80 Toyota 4x4 back in the day in Ontario and it used to freeze up on a regular basis. I would try to start it and no start. I would pour a bottle of antifreeze into the tank and by the time I got back in the truck, it would start immediately EVERY time.

Vince

Then it wasnt a frozen fuel line. Heres a little test for ya, mental or otherwise. imagine a straw full of water thats completely frozen through. put that straw in a glass full of antifreeze and stick it back in the freezer. What do you think will happen? its called antifreeze... not unfreeze for a reason ;-)
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Offline Vinman

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2011, 09:21:08 PM »
Quote from: binare on November 20, 2011, 09:17:43 PM
Then it wasnt a frozen fuel line. Heres a little test for ya, mental or otherwise. imagine a straw full of water thats completely frozen through. put that straw in a glass full of antifreeze and stick it back in the freezer. What do you think will happen? its called antifreeze... not unfreeze for a reason ;-)

Ok, I'll get a clear piece of hose and pour a bit of water in it, let it freeze and then pour some gasline antifreeze in it and see if it thaws.
Give me a day or two and I'll post the results.

Another thing to consider, I believe gasline antifreeze is the same as lock de-icer... or maybe I am out to lunch.

Vince
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Offline binare

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2011, 09:26:46 PM »
Squirting a liquid into a lock forcefully with a bottle to melt the ice is differrent then ice wicking a liquid to thaw without any outisde force. A day or two? it probably will that. Instantly that a frozen gasline? not possible. Barely any gas in your tank and ice forming around the fuel pump pickup being thawed instantly by a bottle of antifreeze... sure why not.
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Offline binare

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2011, 09:41:51 PM »
And just becuase im bored, a fact about heat and cold. There is no such thing as cold. Its something we invented to explain something properly called "lacking heat" If you drop an icecube into a glass of rum and coke, the heat from the rum and coke gets transfered to the icecube, the icecube melts and returns to liquid state. The drink "feels colder" becuase it is now lacking heat some heat it had before.

If a lock is frozen, you could squirt water in it, the water would transfer its heat to the ice, melting it. Once the water has transfered all its heat it would refreeze. Lock deicer will thaw a lock no easier then water, just wont turn to a solid becuase of its chemical makeup. Same with antifreeze. For thawing, its no better then pissing in your tank. But it will change the chemical makeup of gasoline so it that it will not change to a solid as soon as it had before.
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Offline w squared

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2011, 09:55:30 PM »
Gas line antifreeze added after the line is frozen may help with a frozen line...but don't bet on it.

Depending on how cold it is, how much gas is in the tank (dictating what concentration of methanol you end up with), and how thick the ice plug is, your mileage may vary.

BTW...it is not the gasoline that freezes, but water. Gas line antifreeze works by mixing with the water (it's mostly methanol) to lower the freezing point of the resulting solution to somewhere below the ambient temperature.
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Offline binare

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Re: Starts then stalls
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 10:01:15 PM »
Since we dont buy gasoline plus water... just gasoline... I simplified it ;-)
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