Calling all yj guys

[BUKI]

This is on Kijiji. I personally think this is the most dangerous thing I've seen in a long time. What do you think??
http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1990-Jeep-yj-W0QQAdIdZ487167388


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[JackstandJohnny]

What's dangerous?  Are you asking or is there something that irks you? What do YOU think is wrong with it :p
Is this a game that you are playing at work cause you are bored?

[specialk]

Buki is frightened of big engines attached to leaf springs...   and the color red. 

[Slewfoot]

Buki is frightened of big engines attached to leaf springs...   and the color red. 

And half-doors.

[GigaPig]

Maybe the loooooong shackles?

[BUKI]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Those have to be over a foot long.


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[LLYJ]

Not sure what your looking at - looks like the shackles are centerbraced, can't tell for sure. I would describe them as pointless before dangerous though. Only a matter of time before shackle meets rock and the owner will have to replace springs anyway.  I have 6 in "bomber" shackles on mine and honestly even that is an inch too long from a practical sense.  Doesn't seem anyworse than the countless guys running 8" lift blocks on the back of their trucks and crap like that.

I think we have established previosly that I would prefer to see a sway bar delete over a track bar delete, and I know you believe the opposite. is that what you mean ?  

Obviously those are not 6" springs, because if they were he could fit 35's I dunno - honestly with the engine swap done that could be a nice builder if someone put a decent suspension on it and did things right (someone could use that as an argument to lowball him and do it right)- no worse than the new member pic the other day with a SOA on 2 inch springs - fun in a deep hole but wouldn't want to go anywhere off camber and probably handles like crap on the road. Nice to see the common sense denominator moving away from stupid high lifts - this guy clearly didn't get the memo though cause you only need 3.5-4 inches to clear 33's

What is on your mind in particular

[BUKI]

Lift blocks = axle wrap. Go easy, VERY EASY on throttle it won't kill you. I can't even imagine the stress on those points. In order for him to have the 6" lift  on shackles alone that would be a total of 12 inches OVER stock. My guess is 2 inch spring 12 inch shackle. Regardless of if they're braced you have to think of the stress on the bushings and bolts when cornering. Look at it this way. If he did this to the jeep what else could he have worked on... Would you really want to buy this??  Imagine the engine swap.  Look I'm not a full blown mechanic. I'm only a 3rd year. (And I'm not trying to be a dink)  I could be way off base here. Where's Billy?  He'll set us all straight.
Also I have about 5" lift. 4" spring, 1" shackle lift. And I'm noooo where near as tall as him. It looks like he's got 8"s


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[BUKI]

I think we have established previosly that I would prefer to see a sway bar delete over a track bar delete, and I know you believe the opposite. is that what you mean ? 

If this guy was to run without a trackbar. I'm sure he'd go one way and the axle the other.


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[BUKI]

More things I'm thinking of. Under hard braking wouldn't the shackles invert?  I know a lift block in the rear is still bad but it's not on the front axle. On the front axle when you brake into a turn the weight transfers to the front and to the side adding extra stress to the bolts bushings and thin metal shakles.  Also a block is a huge piece of metal that cannot twist or bend like two thin shackles. I'm not say that blocks are good. I'm just THINKING this is worse.


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[1993yj]

lol i still wonder if my jeep would sit higher then this ,4 inch leafs ,1 inch shackle ,1 inch body and a spring over ,all this = running 35 inch tires with no prblems

[BUKI]

Aww snap. Santa when did you get rid of the 4" body and get a 4" spring?


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[LLYJ]

From a leverage point of view, yes there would be more lateral force, but even if its hacked together junk materials I couldn't guess whether they would collapse or not. But think about it this way - if you have a 2'  ladder (springs are the side lengths) and 1 rung at 1' (the axle) and the base anchored to the ground (spring perches) think about the force it would take to shift the top of the ladder sideways - apply that to a leaf suspension and the springs would basically have to rotate within the u-bolts, or the springs flex sideways between the axle and the shackle, for the shackles to collapse seems pretty unlikely to me anyway,  Regardless I wouldn't run shackles that long. Reasons are plenty, just my opinion though.

In regards to the potential for inversion under hard braking, I don't think that is a concern. The front eye of the spring's movement is determined by the flex rate of the spring between the perch and the axle, that won't change no matter what length the shackle is, and simple geometry tells me that the longer the shackle, the further the centre of the spring eye has to travel to reach the angle at which the shackle would invert. I would also think that the transfer of weight to the front of the jeep, under heavy breaking would actually lengthen the spring counteracting the effect of braking and the rearward force.

Anyway just my thinking on the situation, I could be wrong !


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[BUKI]

Your first comment I don't understand your analogy at all. The 2nd part was a good answer to my question. Another thing I was thinking wouldn't this setup exaggerate a death wobble experience?? You are adding a ton more leverage to a common cause of death wobble.
Also wouldn't torsional force be increased? Or is that the force that doesn't matter on length?
Also to further my point I don't think I would buy an item that's been hacked together by a person who doesn't even know what he is selling. 1990 cj?? He may be a nice guy, but it just doesn't look good on him.

Hey mods we should move this to tech. As its a cool topic and I'm getting kinda excited. Lol

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[LLYJ]

Kay - I'll try explaining this another way

Looking at the jeep from the front, x being the horizontal axis, and y being the vertical.  Given that the spring flexes in the y axis, and is remarkably rigid and strong in the x.  Also given that the axle, the 2 springs and the perches (rear end of the spring) form a remarkably rigid and strong square. The front of the spring can not move in either direction of the x axis without another component failing ( that being, a spring bending/breaking on the y axis which is virtually impossible except at the eye, or a rear perch tearing off, or a rear eye bolt shearing, or theoretically - axle u bolts breaking) - the x axis locating of the front of the spring is not secured by the shackle, it is located by the rear perches and the rigidity of the square structure and the rigid strength of the springs in the x axis.

Consider the "C" shackle design, still used today in hd and military applications and previously on willys jeeps. Why don't the springs slide off the "C" because of the structural principles I described above. Most have nothing in the way of a clip or pin holding the spring eye on the "C" because the structural design does the job just fine.

Given the jeep in the ad has H-braced shackles, even at that length, and assuming mild steel material it would still take major force for them to collapse and you would also see either a broken or severely bent spring(s) or a sheared rear spring eye bolt or a ripped off perch.

They few times I have seen a shackle failure it was accompanied by substantial damage to one or more of the other components. And in every case it was taking epic air and significant force applied to generate the failure.

Although the shackles look really weak, and certainly are the weak link in that set-up they are not as weak as they appear - the shackles support the jeep in the y axis and do significantly less in terms of the x and from design perspective they allow the spring to lengthen and shorten while supporting the in the Y

Whether the builder knew it or not retaining the track bar also adds a good deal of strength to the x axis

Anyway hope that explains it...


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