Author Topic: Welders? MIG vs. ARC (Read 4902 times)

Impact · « **on:** March 18, 2007, 05:11:55 PM »

I am thinking about buying a welder from Canadian Tire and doing some "learn as you go" welding. I have minimal experience with MIG welding doing body panels and small brackets. I am looking for an all around good welder (low cost) for body panels, frame/bumper/roll bar and bracket welding. Will a MIG welder be okay for welding brackets to frame & axles?

superles · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2007, 07:48:08 PM »

I recommend that if you are going to weld roll bars and brackets to differentials that you purchase a 230volt unit as a min of 175-180 amps would be required and definetly a gas kit. I also do not recommend roll bar welding to be conducted with minimal experience. "practice first". A good 230 volt mig can do almost as good as an arc with an experienced welder and a lot easier to get good looking welds.

Impact · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2007, 11:38:15 PM »

Ya so today I was again looking at the welders and I "learned" something new. I did not know that you could weld without gas.... Does flux-core hold a good weld? Would it be a good idea to start off buying a flux-core welder that is compatible (hook up) with gas when the wire is changed? I know that some flux-core welders will not accept gas. Are there any type/brand name suggestions?
Thanks

superles · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2007, 09:14:51 AM »

I tried that (using flux core) and hated it. Quality of weld sucked, and there was alot of splatter. I also noted later that weld repairs over top (cracks etc). That all of the old flux core weld needed to be removed. I started welding when I was 12 years old on the farm and got a mig over 10 years ago, added gas and have enjoyed projects ever since. Take the plunge and do it right as I'm quite sure you would like to be proud of your welding projects and their quality. I'm quite sure that some of the welders on the site would agree.

Impact · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:18:38 PM »

Is there a good quality brand of welder that stands out from the rest?

superles · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2007, 12:31:48 PM »

I'm a Miller man myself, however Lincoln has a new machine out with thermal protection. Bang for your buck, check out Hobart. I bought a 230 volt machine for our shop for just over 800.00

HIWYH8R · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2007, 08:20:48 PM »

I bought a Miller Matic MIG 220V 175 Amp and I love it. Welds 1/4" steel no prob in 1 pass. I welded a few years with an arc welder and the Miller makes my welding look quite professinal now:) Havent tried it yet on thin stiff yet but goes down to 30 amps so should be good for bodywork. Made in the US, parts easily available, and great customer service.

Go with a MIG with gas (well worth it). Flux core wire (non gas) is only good for welding outdoors in windy conditions where the gas would blow away. The welds have way more spatter and have to clean them also. I learned on an arc welder and it is definatley harder to learn than mig and there are arguments on both sides on weather its better to learn on a mig or arc. My ten year old daughter wanterd to learn how to weld when I bought my mig a few months ago and after about 2 hours of welding it's almost as good looking as mine. Also arc (stick) welding is pretty difficult on bodywork if your not a real good welder.

You will need a 220 volt for anything over 1/8 inch thickness (for bumpers, side bars, axles etc). You would also most likely wish you bought a more powerfull welder if you buy a 110 volt machine. As far as cost I got mine for 1300$. I bought the bottle of gas but you could rent them by the month. The welder itself was $900, cart $100, and bottle filled with argon/25%co2 for $300. I see why good welders using quality machines make good money. Miller or Lincon are probably the best (US made). Those cheap Italian ones that Princess auto sells would scare me. Where do you get consumables and parts, warranty?

Gearhead · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:00:23 PM »

Another vote for the Miller M175 , it's what I use . Gonna buy a plasma cutter next , probably a Miller.

HIWYH8R · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2007, 10:56:42 PM »

Can I come over for a lesson on plasma cutting when you get it?

Impact, on a side point of buying a welder you will also want a whole lot of other tools (think xmas or birthday:). Angle ginders, cut off saw, horz/vert band saw, bench grinder, larger belt grinder (sander). Make a welding table as a project.

Metal working can be done for fairly cheap with a angle grinder and a welder but the other tools make the job alot easier.

NS-jeeper · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:27:31 AM »

Are you guys saying not to get an Arc welder? I've only ever used my dads Arc welder and it seemed to do the trick. I plan on getting my own someday but if mig is better, then I 'll have to try something new I guess.

Bnine · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:30:28 PM »

They are just saying ARC is harder to learn. Which it is.

Arc is a more affordable option, but will take a little more practice, and probably never look as good as mig welds (unless you are a born natural).

You can usually buy a stick for a couple hundred bucks.

Elsifer · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2007, 04:44:52 PM »

Stick welding is typically "hotter", so better penetration of the metal is achieved.
Mig may sure look purty with a lot less skill, but it doesn't necessarily mean there was good penetration to both sides of the weld. So there could be a failure of that weld.

There is a LOT of info in the above two links, please read em if you are gonna be doing some fabrication.
I really would hate to see a shackle eyelet on a home built bumper come loose under load! :shock:

Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. I prefer mig for doing all my tacking and setup. And then I'll switch to stick for good penetration. (Note, I personally have no welding machine(s) in my garage, I use the equipment at work).

For positional welds (welding the bottom side of a joint on your rollcage thats already in the jeep), I'll admit, mig makes it a LOT easier. But then again, I'm not much of a fan of upside down (position 4) welding. The spatter burns my chest and legs too much.

Either process will work great, mig has the bonus of being able to switch to a nice thin wire, and doing body panels without too much grinding. I think mig welding is like drawing with a big fat crayon, just pull the trigger and move your puddle around. Stick is like trying to do calligraphy with a foot long pencil that likes to stick (thats why its called stick welding) or blow holes thru the material.

If you can learn stick, then everything else is easier. If useing stick, you don't need to mess with gas bottles. If you use stick, you only need one type of electrode (7018 for mild steel), unless you are getting into alloys. And its easier to carry a sealed little box of rods, and the ground clamp and a stinger. Thats why the underhood welder is stick, with the mig attachments available. But stick will turn your body panels to swiss cheese unless you have a really, really good hand.

superles · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2007, 07:41:20 PM »

I would never say a mig welder is better than a stick, however yes easier to use. The weld is only as good as the person welding and with a mig it can look good with very little penetration. All welds must be with the hottest pass possible for penetration and the key is the prep and fit of all materials prior to the welding process. Remember the purpose of a weld is not to fill holes, it is to bond two pieces of metal together regardless of the welding method chosen.

Bnine · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2007, 07:55:16 PM »

Quote from: "superles"

All welds must be with the hottest pass possible for penetration

Thats a bit decieving. You are going to have every back yarder here cranking their migs and burning holes.

Heat and penetration with a mig is a function of amperage and wire speed.

Lower heat, slower speed, higher heat, more speed.

In the end its all about the crackle which a user can only learn with practice.

The good grace of a mig is that you can fill, and that mig likes a bit of gap. The tradeoff is it mig requires more prep then stick.

Heat or penetration is not an issue with either method on our world. Either one will penetrate more then enough in our hobby. I can melt holes in 3/8's with my 210.

I have a good freind that is a 20 year b pressure welder. He welds b pressure roots with a millermatic 210 at times.

Point being, stick vs mig for penetration kind of pointless when talking to us weekend warriors :wink: :wink:

As for pretty mig welds being weak, the same can be said for stick boogers being strong. Same old arguements, different day.

HIWYH8R · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2007, 08:38:06 PM »

Just wanted to add a link here for the group as this is an excellent welding forum. Tons of info from pro welders answering questions from us noobees or hobbiests, nice bunch of people there.

http://www.weldingweb.com/

Author Topic: Welders? MIG vs. ARC (Read 4902 times)

HIWYH8R

HIWYH8R

HIWYH8R