Author Topic: Q about springs and brakes (Read 1739 times)

sean_jeepguy · « **on:** March 26, 2007, 03:33:13 PM »

how hard of a conversion is it to go from drum brakes to disc brakes? and leaf springs to coil springs? ive heard people saying that the disc brakes and coil springs are better. and will coil springs smooth out the ride? if not, what will make a less bumpy ride, as in so you dont feel every little pebble on the highway? air or gas shocks perhaps? any info from you guys is much appreciated.

BlackYJ · « **Reply #1 on:** March 26, 2007, 03:53:03 PM »

it will help if you start by telling us what kind of Jeep you have.

sean_jeepguy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2007, 04:35:56 PM »

ooops, cant believe i forgot that, i have a 1991 YJ, 4.0 - 5 spd

BlackYJ · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2007, 08:22:55 PM »

Coils can be a very expensive swap for a YJ. All the brakets and fabrication will be pricy. However, here are a few things to help with the ride of the old leaf sprung Jeep

1. Start with a GOOD set of springs. Not procomp or 4wd hardware, etc. Get a set that are designed for a YJ not a truck. Two examples are Old Man Emu and Alcan Custom Springs. The people at OME are toyota guys not trucks and they are all about the ride. I recently installed a set of Alcan springs and they go into A LOT of details to make sure the springs are what you want. I used to run the OMEs and I absolutely loved them, but I wanted something with more lift.

2. Get a GOOD shock. Again stay away from the procomp 3000s and low end Ranchos, etc. Rubicon Express, Old Man Emu, Bilstein are all good shocks. Don't get something design for a truck because you can have the best riding springs in the world but if you shocks are stiff, you will have a stiff ride. I am on my 2nd set of OME and I love these shocks, they are valved very nicely for a YJ.

3. Greaseable shackles. I recently made the switch to greaseable shackles, but everything I have heard says greaseable can make a HUGE difference just by keeping everything well lubed. I swapped in MOREs boomerang shackles front and rear with a put in the Alcans.

My dad has a YJ with an OME suspension system with no greaseable shackles, and my Jeep rides a lot nicer, and I found my old OME system to be a pretty nice ride. It all comes down to quality parts and parts designed for a Jeep not a truck.

As for drum to disc, I swapped in a ford 8.8 axle that already had the disc so it was pretty easy.

fug · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2007, 08:25:18 PM »

Your 91 will be disks in the front and drums in the rear. Adding disks to the rear isn't going to buy you that much more braking power since most of your braking is done by the front brakes. Don't get me wrong... rear disks are nice because they don't pack up with mud and aren't affected by the wet like drums but I don't know if you'd see a huge increase in braking performance by installing rear disks. If you're having issues with your brakes I'd go through your system to make sure everything is in good shape and adjusted properly.

As for coil springs... well.. yeah they are smoother than leafs but they aren't something you can just install in your YJ. TJ's have them but they also have a completely different style suspension. The axles on a TJ are held in place by arms rather than bolted to a leaf spring. Fitting a YJ with coils would mean alot of fabbing.

Someone else with more YJ experience may be able to give you some tips to smooth your ride out but it's never going to be great. Its been said a million times but it is true... "It's a Jeep thing". You just have to resign yourself to crap gas mileage, bumpy ride and the envious stare of all other motorists

sean_jeepguy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2007, 08:53:58 PM »

thank you guys very much for that info, thats what i wanted to knw, something cost effective and effective at the same time to smoothing my ride out a bit. im going to look into the shocks and some good leafs for a jeep...a little bit better is A LOT better in any jeep i think. and ill put up with the rest JUST for the envious stares of all other motorists.

can i get some numbers to places to look into the best leafs and shocks, if you guys have any? and some specific brand and types of shocks and leafs that you guys either use or suggest..and shackles as well to use.

Elsifer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2007, 09:14:12 PM »

If you have leafs, you might as well stay with them. Like others have said, go with good quality parts.

Switching to coils would improve the ride, and to a certain extent your flex. But going to coils complicates things. You would need spring perches welded to the frame. Or go coilover. $$$$
You would need a trac-bar to keep the axle underneath the rig. Unless you go and make a triangulated 4 or 5 link for each axle. $$$ in parts and fabrication. It can be done, but not really worth the effort. Leafs and shocks, thats all one really needs to keep the axles underneath the rig. I could be wrong tho. But leafs make it really easy.

The KISS principle for a YJ would say; stay with leafs, get good ones, get good shocks, get better shackles, and you're laughing. Disc brakes for the rear would be nice, but like Fug said, not totally worth the effort. Easier would be to find a Dana 44 rear end and cut off the shock mounts and spring buckets, and you now have a perfectly leaf spingable rear end with disc brakes. Same goes for the front. Unless you want to go bigger and better.

BlackYJ · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2007, 09:45:46 PM »

Here is a pic of my rig flexing with my old setup. This was last summer

BlackYJ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2007, 09:53:30 PM »

Depending on the amount of lift you want here are some choices

2-3" Range
-Old Man Emu - make sure you get the heavy duty system with 5 lefas in the front
-Rubicon Express Extreme Duty
-Alcan Custom Springs

4-5" Range
-Rubicon Express 4.5" Extreme Duty
-Alcan Custom Springs

>5" Range
-Switch to a sprung over axle setup vs sprung under axle
-Alcan Custom Springs
-Rubicon Express

As for shocks, here is a list. I have only used OMEs
-Old Man Emu
-Rubicon Express
-Bilstein 5150
-Walker Evans
-Rancho 9000s

Shackles
-Anything greaseable but I highly recommend boomerang style shackles for getter flex. Have a look at my build thread in the Projects section for info on all the stuff I have used.

Also just to give you an idea, my Alcans cost about $1000 compared to rubicon express springs or OME springs which would have cost me about $600.

sean_jeepguy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2007, 10:11:30 PM »

ok, keep in mind that im learning as i go along for this next question...what if i already have a 3inch body lift and 3inch susp lift? if i get newer and better leaf springs and shocks, getting this and better shackles will help? even with the lift i already have?

BlackYJ · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2007, 07:23:08 AM »

Quote from: "sean_jeepguy"

ok, keep in mind that im learning as i go along for this next question...what if i already have a 3inch body lift and 3inch susp lift? if i get newer and better leaf springs and shocks, getting this and better shackles will help? even with the lift i already have?

What kind of springs and shocks are in there right now? If you want to save some cash start with front and rear shackles. Also go with a slightly longer shackle, at least with 1/2" of lift as it will let the spring flex better. Remember that with a shackle lift, say for a 1/2" lift, the shackle will be 1" long because you are only raising one end of the spring. So for 1" lift, they will be 2" longer, and do not go bigger than about 1" lift as it will start to affect your caster and steering geometry.

Next if you still don't like the ride, you will have to look into new shocks and springs. Right now you are on the border line for lift and driveline mods. Much bigger in suspension and you will need a SYE kit, if you don't have one already. If you have one then no worries.

Finally, remember that it is a YJ and they are not cadillacs

sean_jeepguy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 27, 2007, 12:09:42 PM »

im not too sure whats on it right now, ive had it for 7 yrs and all i really had done was the lift and tires, but now my nephew, godson and i are going to make a big project out of it this summer, and we want to turn out a really nice ride when we're done, and we want to do as much of it as we can ourselves, i.e paint and bodywork, and the major components ill get done professionally underneath, but when i go into my 4x4 guys shop, i want to know what questions to ask and i figured what better way to learn a few things as i go along than to ask a bunch of genuine jeep guys...like you guys, so here i am. im a rookie right now...but id soon like to be more novice when im done this. and i know its not a cadi...if id wanted one of them, id have bought one...i just know i can get a bit of a smoother ride someway.

so that being said, i hope you guys dont mind a few perhaps stupid questions to you...but learning questions to me...thanks for any input you can give me on products and tricks to better my ride.

Bnine · « **Reply #12 on:** March 27, 2007, 12:43:45 PM »

For a better leaf ride look into a soft spring. Call and get spring rates from BDS, OME, and or Alcan.

Ignore RE if you want a soft ride, they run a very stiff spring.

BDS is very soft spring.

For shocks, either looked at really well broken in oils like R5000's, or a soft gas like an OME. Anything fancier then those are going to run into big $.

Keep you track bars and swar bars if you are more concerned with ride then offroad performance.

Consider a shackle reversal on the front axle. That will smooth out the bumps a bit, and tend to bump wander less while driving down the road.

Get C load range tires for softer side walls and ride.

Use rubber bushings on everything. Shackles, track bars, swaybars, shocks, etc etc. Poly last longer but will stiffen up the ride considerably.

Done right, leafs can be set up to ride quit nicely. I have a CJ in my garage right now that the original owner set to ride as smooth as any stock TJ I have ever riddin in.

BDS leafs, very worn in generic Skyjacker oil shocks, rubber bushings all the way around. It doesnt handle as well as a TJ, since there are no track bars or sway bars which were ditched for offroad performance, but the ride for leafs is outstanding.

hth, good luck and have fun with your project.

FWIW, if you end up considering coils and links, just go straight to coilovers. All the work involved is not really worth doing it just for stock style coil springs.

sean_jeepguy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2007, 01:41:58 PM »

thanks very much for your input bnine, ill make sure to ask about everything you suggested, as well as what everyone else suggested, i appreciate that from you all. ill take pics as we go along and post a project build thread, and when you guys see something i can improve on or do differently and be more effective with it, then please let me know as i go along. thanks again. ill ask more as well as i come across things id like to learn about.