Calgary Jeep Association

Author Topic: Prove Yourself  (Read 2584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Phill

  • Guest
Prove Yourself
« on: July 02, 2007, 11:11:53 AM »
OK, I have had it with too many people "saying" they will write letters or complain about our closures, I doubt they do.  

This is a post that I want to see 1000 replies on, I want you to copy and paste your letters to gov officials on this thread.  If you dont do so, I take it that you have not done it and dont give a crap if you only get to wheel crubs and rti ramps for the rest of your lives.  You dont have to write a essay, write whats on your mind, good or bad civil or evil,  just do it.  Hell copy and paste mine, and edit them a little (not as good as your own but better then nothing).  Just send something!  I was told straight up by the SRD that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so lets squeal like hell!

So I will start off, lets also put links to who to send these to.

Ted Morton            [email protected]

Ed Stelmach ( copy and paste letter in)   http://www.premier.alberta.ca/contact/


lets get some more people to whine at too, post your links.    


here are some of mine (first was from may long).  I plan to do atleast 2-3 a week now.  

I would like to address some problems with Alberta’s “land management” and shifting of blame.   For the past 3 generations my family has used enjoyed and respected the open land use areas of southern Alberta, and this last weekend I was infuriated with the provincial governments acts to help keep these areas under control.  

Some back ground information on me is I am a 23 year old male, I have a degree in Geology from U of C and m family has been in Alberta since the 1800’s.  I am a hiker, bicyclist, motor biker, fisher, camper, four wheel drive enthusiast and most importantly an environmentalist…..  

Now many will disagree with what I said last, but how many of you have picked up measured tons of others garbage after May long weekend in the back country?  How many of you have planted 1000’s of trees in newly logged areas?  How about spend countless hours helping with erosion control?   Fencing off problem areas?  Educating un-educated irresponsible users?    I like to think I am trying to help solve the problem unlike the province.

This is what irritates me, this weekend we planned to do some trail rides in Indian Graves, upon arrival on Friday afternoon we were stopped in a check stop, I was thrilled at this, what a great sign, finally the province is trying to help!  This was until the Civic full of teenagers drinking Kokanee’s  infront of us was waived through, and I was thoroughly checked beyond means,  my girlfriend was questioned with me out of the vehicle while I was under questioning from another police officer….  All because I was hauling out my wheeling rig legally 100%.

This delusional discrimination has to stop.  The four-wheel drive communities have done more for these areas in the past years then the province, the actually users of these areas are all that’s left to defend them.  Countless times not 10 meters from the road illegal activities can be seen in these “may long” users camp sites.  The lack of SRD/Forest Rangers patrolling is unquestionably responsible for the activities going on.  It frustrates me beyond comprehension how these areas are ignored by the SRD until the problem is so far gone they feel the need to close the areas.   I have been all over North America in recreational areas and none are as lightly policed as Albertas.  

For example in Moab Utah the entire town relies on its natural areas for its income.  Our family recently bought a house there as the recreational areas are phenomenal, yet on most weekends of the year 20,000+ users can be in these areas.  Why can they easily handle this?  It is because in one weekend I personally will see and talk to at least 3-4 park rangers.  Not just on the road on the way in, not just in the parking lot, but 10 miles in, on a trail.  These park rangers are well informed and strict, you know if you’re in the wrong you will be held reliable.  It’s a simple concept but here in Canada it is not fully understood yet.

The government here try’s to sweep the problem under the carpet, waiparous has these issues I saw this weekend in Indian Graves, and it was all but closed in a attempt to solve the issue….  Clearly a lot of thought went into that (excuse my sarcasm).  How would this not just shift the problem elsewhere?  Clearly the grad party kids, the drunk slobs, and other users could figure out to go somewhere else.  This is evident in users like Jeff and Matt Sawatzky and Jason and Colin Porte who were quoted by the herald as first time users (imagine that) "It brings out the redneck in you,"
"There are no rules. That's the reason you come here," Sawatzky said. "You can party." ( Calgary Herald, Sunday, May 20, 2007, http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=018c0a59-eb91-4f26-8c94-e545388a0aae&k=84021 )
Does this not answer the problem?  Does this not ring the bell in any government officials heads?  This is what I hear from every kid I tell to get out of the creek, or to stay on the trail.   “There are no rules” they say, “that’s the reason you come here”.  
This proves to me the province is completely reliable for the damage being done.  Now they want to close the areas so on the other 51 weekends of the year people like myself cannot clean up after the “may long” users to cover for them and enjoy the back country.  They want to just shift the problem elsewhere, as long as it is out of their view it is solved right?   How ignorant.  
This weekend we came home a day early we were so disgusted at the damage being done by the “may long” users, but more on the lack of policing shown by the province.  Closing trails and limiting access does not address the problem at all.  It punishes the responsible, and does not affect the guilty.  Further more, it shows the world we cannot handle the same problem other areas can handle easily.  Alberta shows no passion for its backcountry, the government cannot comprehend the money being spent in Alberta because of these beautiful areas and ignores them.  Because of this we as users are taking the hit, its time the government steps up, and looks into places like Moab,  the problem can be solved, it should not be ignored any longer with closures.  
Simple litter laws that would be enforceable while you’re in camp would do wonders, strict fines for leaving anything behind or damaging the land would help to, but it needs to be enforced, at any time, anywhere, and firmly.   The irresponsible users admit they don’t have any rules and that’s why they come.  Let’s solve this, I want to see rangers on the trails, writing tickets, and in camps looking for any litter and giving fines.  These few little things would provide them with the funds they need, and do wonders for our backcountry.    If the problem continues I feel it is in the real users hands to start enforcing these laws by any means.  It is our right and heritage to use these areas; it will not be taken away lightly.  










This was todays, its a little harsh, but it seems thats what it is going to take.





I would like to let you know by introducing your recent closures to the willow creek area, you have created an absolute monster.  

Less then a week ago I was out cleaning up litter, help fencing off problem areas with zero srd help, I went and cleared over 40 miles (yes miles) of fallen timber on trails so the quaders would quit going off trails to avoid the fallen trees.  I did this all on my own, with my truck and me and zero help from the gov.  

This week…..  it’s a different story,  after my brother drove up from Denver to do some 4 wheel driving on pure rock trails (zero mud) at Indian Graves “willow creek” we were turned around, he spent a week of vacation 2,000$ in gas, and you guys could not give us the decency of more the a weeks notice before your discriminating closure to anything over 800 lbs , you have no idea how much damage you just caused.  

We both had  a decision to make, with such little recreational areas available now in Alberta, and with such a huge amount of forrest areas owned by the public (government land is owned by the public in our country, just so you know) we decided to prove a point.

So instead of running some nice proven trails with zero mud and zero impact, we went 30-40 km north to K-country and scouted things out.  Hell you don’t have any rangers there, there is less chance of getting busted there then in “willow creek” now.  Well we found some nice meadows we can tear the hell out of in your name,  We can beat the crap out of our rigs and really caused some damage there, it is way more sensitive then willow creek/Indian graves.  This weeked  we have planned a wheeling  trip out by Canmore now instead of Indian graves, I have hiked some areas that would be great for wheeling, and you sure as hell don’t patrol those areas either.  We will explain to the hikers why we are there when they question us.    

So for your records, you have absolutely caused more damage then fixed.  I will now recreate wherever the hell I want, I have a large following of supporters since we have no trials left. Good luck finding out where we are going, after we are done with these places I will send you the locations so you can see what damage is.

Also with my company I took a helicopter out like you and viewed the damage from may long…..  what I saw scared me, the hectares and hectares of clear cut logging just west of willow creek was so damaging I couldn’t bare it, the petro can pipeline, and H2S facilities were absolute atrocities.   It was then I realized you need a wake up call.   You need to introduce reasonable laws to willow creek, reopen it to four wheel drives, have stiff fines for going of trails, have large littering fines, heck even have access fees.  Do something to prove to me you care about ALL users and we will stop what we have started.   This is a time for action on our part, you can no longer bully us.  

You are a smart man, think about black market scenarios in the economy, and think what happens when more restrictions are imposed on that product…..  the black market grows…..  that is what you have caused here.  The more you make four wheel drives illegal, the more we use prime areas you really don’t want us.  The reasoning on our part is, I have over 100 grand and 5 years of my life into building my four wheel drive, It is worth it for a few fines and tickets to use it, and if that’s going to happen, why not use it somewhere nice like Banff or Canmore?  

Also we will ponder organizing a day in which deerfoot will be closed do to “too much traffic and environmental concerns”.  We will make it quiet clear you have caused these actions.  This is the same mentality you have when in recreation areas, so as responsible users we will do our best to prevent over use on deerfoot.  

Good luck, and if you decide you want to make reasonable laws and none discriminating policies for Indian Graves and Ghost/Wiaporous let me know, No damage has been caused yet in your name, but that time is coming to an end.

We can be your friend and help you enforce reasonable environmentally sound rules, and help clean up after the people who abuse the land ( they will still be there with your new laws, in fact their areas are untouched by your new regulations…) or we can be your worst enemy.  We know you get pressure from the green side, and when they see the deliberate damage we cause in their areas specifically in spite of these uneducated ignorant laws, you will get complaints from all sides.  This is in your hands now, you have been given fair warning unlike us, clearly we have more respect for you then you have for us.

Phill

  • Guest
Prove Yourself
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2007, 01:28:08 PM »
Here is a link to Dave Rutherford, he has some Sustainable resources guys on there tomorrow, lets flood them with comments and hard questions.  Here is one my Dad e-mailed me that he sent in. The more action the better,  I have met Dave he is a good guy lets get him to help us here.  He will ask the tough questions!

Link;     http://www.am770chqr.com/station/contacts.cfm?csi=453&si=19

Mr. Rutherford: I am so angry and so upset that I can hardly speak or send a coherent message. I have many things I would like to mention in regards to the 4x4's being banned at Indian Graves but I would have to speak to you as the letter I would have to send would be a mile long and if you ever want some of this information please feel free to call me however as per your Tuesday show when you have the Sustainable resources guy on there please note the following.  

The banning of 4 x 4's had nothing to do with the problems at Indian Graves as they were not the cause they were just an easy target--visible and not numerous.  I believe this was a set up and just part of the buearocratic plan to close all of Alberta to public lands access. If damage was really a concern just drive down the road a mile south of Indian Graves and look at the miles and miles of clear cut logging that does more harm in a week than all the 4 wheelers could do in a lifetime.  This was out and out a political ploy to look good to the mass of city voters. There was nothing done here but discrimination against a small group.  

People in this country had better wake up because this is becoming a police state where the government can target someone they don’t like and everyone else just says “oh well it is not me so who cares”.  The quads and bikes and boaters and mountain bikes and eventually hikers are all in the governemnt 's targets and their plan is to take out one group at a time.  

Think of it this way what if Wednesday morning you get up and go to your car to go to work and there is a barricade at the end of your street.  A cop asks your name and then says I am sorry but there were 3 accidents on the Deerfoot last month with Dave's in them so we have decided to ban all Daves's from using the roads.  Now Petes and Bills and Freds are Ok so they can go to work but you are no longer allowed.  “Dont those other guys have accicdents” you ask---“Why yes but the government had to do Something" says the cop, “so they banned Dave's”.

 Now this is what is happening.  They could enforce their laws and set up areas and have user fees to pay for bridges over sensitive water but no they just ban one group .  This is public land and no government for any reason should be allowed to ban anybody without consultation and open public discussion.  This is police state action and I fully believe the only recourse is CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.  I believe the Natives way may be the best way.  If the government wants to ban the public then maybe the public should ban the government.  

Every single person in the province should be upset by this lawless act by the governmnet.  You dont have to agree with 4x4ing and you can have green views but everyone should be upset by any government targeting groups for action when they have not done anything.  The next group could be you.  We need open discussion and prescribed trails for 4 x 4 use and protection of all public lands for public use and for environmental protection.  Banning people because it is convenient of voter friendly is a dangerous precedent for every Albertan.--Terry James

Offline Bnine

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2572
  • Sticky Fingers
Prove Yourself
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 01:28:10 PM »
Sent to Ted Morton, Ed Stemach, and Dave Rutherford.

Mr Morton,

You may or not remember our previous correspondence. Again, my name is Bill Berry, I am member of the Calgary Jeep association, and the Alberta United Recreationlist Society. I am also a very active volunteer throughout the Alberta back country. I volunteer for clean up events in the Ghost, Mclean Creek, and most recently the May long weekend Indian graves cleanup. I have personally hauled away vehicles at the request of SRD officers from both Mclean creek and the Indian Graves area.

You responded to my letter, expressing your thanks for the volunteer work that has taken place in the area. Two weeks later you announced I could no longer access the area with my Jeep, but I would be okay if I rode my dirtbike in the area.

Mr Morton, with all due respect, I have to ask you a handful of questions. I would sincerely appreciate some honest answers.

1. Are you aware that the 4x4 truck/jeep community makes up less then 10% of offroad users in the province?

2. Are you also aware that 90% of volunteer projects undertaken in the back country, with the guidance of the SRD are undertaken by the 4x4 truck/jeep community?

3. Is the poor representation of the 4x4 users a scapegoat for you and your staff to justify back country closures?

4. Will the SRD and yourself actually consider working with us in the future, or will continue to use us as resources and deny us access shortly after?

5. Are you not aware that irresponsible users on any machine have potential to damage the environment? Did you know that at 3500lb Jeep on 35”  tall x 13.5” wide tires has considerable less pressure per square inch contacting the ground then your typical quad does?

6. Why is stewardship, education, enforcement, and possible users fee’s not being considered?

I read your statements and decisions regarding the closures in the Indian graves area. This tells me 1 of two things. Either you do not understand what is happening in these areas, or you knee jerk reacting to rancher complaints and taken what seem to be the easiest route.

I will tell you now Mr Morton. If you continue to wrongly single out 4x4 users and ban them from areas, you will quickly realize how much of a mistake it is. Who then will clean up the mess from your teenage partiers, and uneducated/irresponsible users.

In the case that you really are coming into this as uninformed as it seems, I would like to extend an open invitation to any of one our clubs meetings, or better yet, and actual ride along with our club.

I know and understand you are a busy man. I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to this. If you do decide you would like to join us on a ride along, I will gladly take the time to personally take you out.

Sincerely,

Bill Berry

Troubled Back Country User
My Mechanic Calgary
Mobile Auto Care
403-483-1083
[email protected]

Offline 01sahara

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 2892
Great Job Bill
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 01:58:24 PM »
Thank you Bill, that letter is excellent. You did a great job of framing how we all feel. For others that are sending letters I think Bills comment of the tire size and weight per sq.in is an excellent point.  Also the government should note that in a day of wheeling we cover much less ground due to the slower pace of a jeep compared to the distance and impact of the bikes and quads as they cover more trail in a day. I will write a letter after I have had a chance to meet with SRD this week.
Super Winch, 33" MT, 2 1/2" lift , CB, Flat Fender
http://melaman2.com/cartoons/singles/george-jungle.html

Phill

  • Guest
Prove Yourself
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 02:57:19 PM »
Bill, excellent letter!  I too should have written a nicer one, but I am past that point now.   :(   Now with talks of mclean going, you dont have much time to get Morton out.  

This is what I sent out today, Doug wished me to keep him informed on what was going on, with what has been printed lately at the herald we need to set them straight.  Doug and Al are a decent crew, after may long the printed my letter in the herald, and seemed to agree, lets try and get them on our side





Doug to keep you informed, anything over 800lbs was outlawed outright, no consultation, no scientific, or environmental reasoning, yet the logging, oil, and gas companys are raping the same area with zero regards.  The problems from may long have not been solved, the areas for the grad camping are un-touched by the new laws, this is 100% ignorant.  I cannot believe this, I am not a idiot, I understand the laws to the fullest extent.  I also know that with the way the 12,000 acers that were outlawed are laid out, access to 10,000+ more acers was denied.

Doug it is time for serious action, with the recent closures  to Willow creek and talks of future closure of mclean creek (the only place left for 4wd in Alberta) more and more responsible 4wd users will be forced to illegally offroad in areas with less chance of being caught, the public needs to understand, that if our playground is taken away with zero input or consultation from us we will resort to civil disobedience, this is not wanted but has to happen.

I want your input on the best means to get this across to the public.

 No matter what ones views are, if you don’t stand up for your neighbor when their rights are taken away in a country like ours you are choosing to have no rights for yourself.    


Doug Firby  (Calgary herald)   [email protected]

Al Rach      (Calgary herald)   [email protected]

Offline bae146

  • UberWheeler
  • Posts: 403
Prove Yourself
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2007, 07:25:26 PM »
I sent my letter!!!  Did YOU?????????

Offline 4PLAYZJ

  • UberWheeler
  • Posts: 423
Prove Yourself
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2007, 07:34:48 PM »
I sent this letter to the office of sustainable resource development the day that I heard of the closure.  I am working on a longer one but I want to educated myself a little more before I do.

This letter is to address the recent closure of the recreation area in the Willow Creek area(Indian Graves). I understand that the destruction caused over the may long weekend was a total embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves and Albertan. However the approach of banning a particular group of enthusiasts will not solve the problem it only penalizes a large group of individuals that already use the areas responsibly and understand our recreation areas are a privilege and not a right. This letter is not intended to be a complaint but a suggestion or idea. In all of the meetings and committees with government groups has the idea of user fees for these areas ever been discussed? If a fee was substantial enough and the penalty for using the area without a pass was high enough it would keep the "rowdys" out and allow the responsible users to enjoy the areas in peace. A system similar to the Banff pass that people have to purchase when entering the Banff National Park. This system would be fairly simple to implement, the infrastructure could be accomplished through Alberta registries. The system for fines could be as simple as anyone found in recreation area without the pass would be subject to a hefty fine(like Banff). This would also give the government additional money to implement the fine system and manage the lowered environment impact in recreation areas. I would agree with anyone who says that the destruction of May long weekend is not manageable on a regular basis, however, the impact of regular responsible users is. In my mind this idea may solve a good portion of the problems for good and allow responsible hobbyist’s like ourselves to continue to do what we love. As a member of the “responsible” off road community I ask that you work with us in finding a sustainable solution. Thank you for your time & consideration of this letter William Haworth (403)243-5644

Offline JackstandJohnny

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 4727
  • where Jeeps go to die
Prove Yourself
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2007, 10:55:56 PM »
faxed these off to our elected representatives yesterday...


Legislature Office
725 Legislature Annex
9718 107 Street
Edmonton, AB
Canada T5K 1E4
Phone: (780) 415-1325
Fax: (780) 422-1671

Attention: Mr. Dave Rodney

My name is John Campacci and I am a new resident of your riding, and a born and bred Albertan from Calgary.  I am writing you in regards to an issue of high importance to myself as well as many fellow Albertans.  Recently, an area Southwest of Calgary called Willow Creek, known to many as Indian Graves, has been shut down to off highway vehicle use via the Forest Land Use Zone legislation that was passed not to long ago.  This statement, of which I have provided a copy of, was released just days before the Canada Day long weekend and explicitly states that owners/uses of 4x4 vehicles are now prohibited in these areas. Vehicles under 300kg, however, are still permitted.  As a responsible user of these areas I feel that our Government, and specifically, Sustainable Resource Development have infringed upon my rights as both an Albertan and a Canadian Citizen.

Statements restricting use of these lands, and essentially blaming those of us who drive 4wd vehicles is nothing more than placing unfair blame on a specific group of people.  Furthermore, allowing vehicles such as ATVs and not full size 4x4s is blatant discrimination.  There is no scientific evidence which can legitimately say that quads and motorbikes are any less damaging on the environment.

All I ask is that you take notice of this discrimination against one specific group of individuals in your riding.  Such actions alone single out one group of people, and limit the very rights which people such as you and other elected officials have sworn to protect.  For years I have been a respectable user of these areas, hauling out other people’s garbage, and participating in bridge builds to ensure watersheds and creek crossings remain unaffected by human interaction as possible.  I refuse to believe these actions were in vain, and I refuse to believe my hobby of 4wheeing and working on my Jeep Grand Cherokee can be disregarded without so much as any input from the 4 wheeling community.

For years I have enjoyed the outdoors, camping, and respecting the land, its sheer beauty and what it is like to experience the mountains asides from a chairlift at a ski mountain.  I ask you to please take note of these actions.  If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me, I would love to discuss such issues with you at length.

Best regards,

John Campacci


Legislature Office
420 Legislature Building
10800 97 Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta
Canada T5K 2B6
Phone: (780) 415-4815
Fax: (780) 415-4818

Attention: Honourable Ted Morton

My name is John Campacci and I am a born and bred Albertan, residing in Southwest Calgary, and recently I have read a very disturbing press release regarding an issue you no doubt know very well.  I speak of the recent closings of the public lands known as the Ghost/Waiprous and more recently, Willow Creek, also known to many as Indian Graves.  As a responsible user of these areas for many years I am very concerned with the closings of these public lands.  I, for one, do not like to be linked to the environmental degradation being witness by grad parties and raves that go on in these areas.  

For years I have done all that is within my power to maintain these areas, be it haul out jeeploads of garbage, build bridges across streams and creeks, and educate as many people as possible about the ‘tread lightly!’ mentality that so many of us wheelers adhere to religiously.  It is hard for me to watch our areas continually get shut down due to a small percentage of users who do not adhere to such rules.  As you are probably aware, I am against these closures for obvious reasons, however the aim of me writing is not to complain, but rather, to inform you of the discrimination such closures has caused.

As an avid off road enthusiast and environmentalist, the recent prohibition against full size 4x4s in the Willow Creek area has essentially taken away my right to enjoy the outdoors, and the beautiful Alberta landscape that I have come to know and love.  Through recent legislation like FLUZ, (forest land use zones) my rights to enjoy these lands has been revoked, and the years of hard work put into maintaining these areas has simply been deleted.  I feel that the rights that politicians such as yourself have sworn to protect have simply been denied because it is easier to sweep the problem under the rug instead of fix it.  

Sadly, I am not surprised with the situation that has engulfed the Willow Creek area.  With the recent closing of Ghost/Waiprous there was bound to be an influx of visitors to such an area. With this recent closing of Indian Graves, one can also expect Mclean Creek and other similar areas to also becoming heavily used and inevitably, closed.  This reminds me of a quote you said after the May Long weekend stating how such closures in Waiprous would inevitably lead to such problems in places such as Indian Graves.  I am just curious how you can say such things and act surprised when you fly over Indian Graves in a helicopter and see the problems of overuse caused by prior closings such as the ones in the Ghost/Waiprous area.

 Closing these areas will simply drive people to abuse other areas and cause similar problems.  Instead of close these areas permanently, we should do what governments do best: regulate them.  Restrict such areas so that only people with legitimate licenses can camp and go offroading.  Such an idea would enable the province regulate this problem: there would be records of who is in these areas at what time, and hopefully produce some sort of income to pay for the enforcement of such areas.  More importantly, it would keep out ‘grad parties’ and other rambunctious people, and enable those of us who are willing to protect and use our land respectably, the right to continue enjoying the great outdoors.  

Please Mr. Morton, as a fellow Albertan who has used these areas responsibly just as I do, look into some of these other options.  I for one do not like to be lumped in to those ecological disasters that are grad parties, nor do I like to be discriminated against simply because I drive a jeep instead of an ATV.  There are other options for the province to pursue.  Granted these may take time and effort, but there are many of us who are more than willing to voice opinions, and spend our weekends volunteering to build bridges to ensure such watersheds and creek runoffs continue to flow with minimal human interaction.

Please do not hesitate to contact me in regards to anything I have said, I can talk at length about this issue as I would love for my kids to be able to enjoy Alberta’s beauty and wonder as I have, wheeling and camping.  It breaks my heart to think that they may only be able to realize this through past pictures and magazine articles.  

My best regards,


John Campacci
~ rescue green JKUR on 35s.  typical rubicon build

Offline Mudhawg

  • Talks waaay too much!
  • Posts: 1747
  • Rig Life
Prove Yourself
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2007, 12:18:28 AM »
Dear

Mr Morton

My name is Doug Tilley and i am a back country user who owns a four wheel drive vehicle. I am only 16 years old and still in highschool currently. Personally I enjoy every minute in the back country because it is like a second home to me, I try to spend as much time as possible in areas like Maclean Creek OHV Area as well as The Indian Graves and Waiparous Area's. With the recent trail closures in Indian Graves and last years closures in the Waiparous/Ghost area's it have severely limited my time in these area's due to no trail systems to use my 4wd vehicle on.

With The recent closures I can no longer enjoy these area's like I once could in the past offroading with my uncle. This has left me extremely upset because like previously stated I loved exploring the area's. Now with the recent trail closures and limitations to 4wd vehicles these area's are closed to young people like me. I personally have participated in the Waiporous/Ghost Area cleanups as well as Maclean Creek cleanup.On long weekends i have personally picked up garbage that had been left behind by irresponsible users. I also understand and remain on designated trail systems while using my 4wd vehicle

I feel completely discriminated against as a member of the 4wd community because we had no say in the recent closures at indian graves,Yet the ATV's/Dirtbikes do not get blamed for any of the enviromental issues in the area? 4wd owners are educated in treading lightly and shouldn't be held to a different standard because of their weight.

Mr. Morton i am writing this letter because i am very distraught at the fact that only 4wd's are being blamed for recent closures and this is very unfair and unacceptable

Doug Tilley
1984 Chevy 6" Lift 40" Boggers

Phill

  • Guest
Prove Yourself
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 01:18:29 PM »
This is from my girlfriend sent to all contacts but re-worded for each.



Dear Dr. Ted Morton,

I am writing this letter in regards to your actions involving restricting access to Indian Graves for off-road truckers. This action is preposterous, and is in my opinion despicable and conniving. To give no notice of this action, let alone to carry it out is cowardly. Firstly, I have often visited Indian Graves as a camper, as well as an off-road trucking enthusiast, and am well aware of the condition of the area. Every year on May long weekend, hundreds of graduating teenage students visit Indian Graves with the sole intent of partying. These kids leave enormous messes comprised of garbage, wrecked cars, and polluted soil and water, none of which bother to clean up after themselves. It doesn't take a genius to see the direct correlation between extreme amounts of litter, and areas where partying high school students have occupied. I have also noticed some more ignorant campers who are too lazy to pick up their own garbage. Putting the blame on off-road truckers for causing the environmental damage in Indian Graves is both ignorant and cowardly. Especially since large groups of off-roaders are the only individuals to gather each year to clean the park. If there is concern about the environmental state of Indian Graves, perhaps the extensive clear-cutting of trees should cease, or the construction of gas pipelines and the proximal drilling of sour gas wells should be more carefully monitored in the area, or better yet, rowdy teenagers and others with the intent of partying in Indian Graves should be heavily fined for devious behavior and disregard for the environment. As an environmental scientist and geologist, I recognize that the aforementioned activities are much more harmful to the environment than off-road trucking. There is no one group of individuals to blame for the messes observed in Indian Graves, but there are definitely groups that are more responsible than others.

Perhaps there is a more simple solution to the maintenance of Indian Graves, as opposed to cowardly picking on off-road truckers. At present, forest rangers do nothing to enforce laws against littering and defacing the environment at Indian Graves, and when confronted by a drunken teenager, tend to back away in fear, and in turn pick on the unoffending innocent. On my visit to Indian Graves on May long weekend, I observed RCMP officers at a checkstop at the entrance of Indian Graves allowing teenagers that were drinking and driving to go on through, but then proceeding to stop and harass an off-road trucker who had done nothing wrong, except to own an off-road vehicle. I get the feeling that these RCMP officers have either been grossly misinformed, or else they are complete morons. Forest rangers should take action against littering and pollution by all individuals using Indian Graves, whether it be camper, partying kids, individuals quading or biking, or off-road truckers. The use of rather substantial fines and access fees may encourage better treatment of the park. This is in opposition to restricting access to a select group of innocent individuals and in essence doing nothing to correct the problem. Perhaps you should grow a backbone and enforce heavy littering fines and monitoring of all individuals using Indian Graves. The money provided by large littering and forest misuse fees will more than likely cover the costs of employing well-informed enforcement officers. This discrimination and harassment of individuals who partake in off-roading trucking is grossly unfair and must stop. You cannot restrict access of public land to citizens, especially to a select group of individuals, which is against what this country stands for, and for that matter, it is an unwarranted act. As a voting patron of this province, I am disgusted and greatly opposed to your actions, and I know that I am not alone in this standing. You should take actions to correct your mistake before you lose all support in this province. Do not punish those who are unoffending because of the actions of those who are ignorant and inconsiderate of the environment and others.



Regards,

Cindy Robinson

Offline GiS

  • That CB Yapper
  • Posts: 641
Prove Yourself
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2007, 02:15:19 PM »
[email protected]
Calgary Sun

[email protected]
Calgary Herald

SEND YOUR LETTERS!! The above are a few more places to send them...I really liked sending mine to Stelmach and pointing out that his support has dwindled to a measly 39% haha.

Below was obviously edited for respective parties,



Dear ,

As an avid user of the Alberta backcountry I am livid with your recent decision to disallow access to vehicles over 800 lbs in the Willow Creek/Indian Graves region.

The problems that arise in the area are not caused by devoted and responsible Albertans. They are caused by high school students and un-educated users. Please reference the Heralds May Long comments on the seven schools that visit the region from as far as 400kms away. The fact that Sustainable Resources is claiming victory is quite ignorant. They obviously have not spent enough time in the area (is this not their “jobsite”??) to understand how to address the issue.

For starters, the issue of random camping has not been addressed effectively. The “camping nodes” you have left open to the public are the exact areas where the May long destruction took place. Give your head a shake!!

I on the other hand came back the following four weekends to help clean-up after the Albertans you have failed to educate. It may seem like common sense to you and I that a couch will not bio-degrade but to some it is not. You have NOT told Albertans how they should recreate. How do they know they are in the wrong?

You seem to like to repeat the statistics of the number of tickets issued in the area on July long weekend. Wow, it is no wonder there were only “few tickets issued”. All seven officers I spoke with explained to me that this is an educational period and that they would not be enforcing the rules for another week or two. I was also told that if users were able to prove they were responsible that there was a possibility of re-opening the area. Tell me how I go about showing that I am responsible when I have nowhere to recreate?

After all, if the method you have taken with Willow Creek will prove to be so effective (in the last seven years, registered off-highway vehicles have grown from 20,000 to 80,000) why not close Deerfoot trail and the QE2 highway?? The province and its population is getting too large, we must shut down more lanes!!

It is no wonder Ed Stelmach’s support has dwindled to measly 39%.

Taking back what is rightfully mine,

Joey Weber

Offline GiS

  • That CB Yapper
  • Posts: 641
Prove Yourself
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2007, 02:42:23 PM »
Mr Coutts Contact, he is the MLA for Livingstone region.

[email protected]

Offline GiS

  • That CB Yapper
  • Posts: 641
Prove Yourself
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2007, 09:11:13 AM »
I am having a lot of luck with MLA's!! Send a letter to yours and possibly neighbouring MLA's (I sent to all 23). They are supposed to support and represent you as a constituent!

-Joe

Offline GiS

  • That CB Yapper
  • Posts: 641
Prove Yourself
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2007, 09:15:07 AM »
I am having a lot of luck with MLA's!! Send a letter to yours and possibly neighbouring MLA's (I sent to all 23). They are supposed to support and represent you as a constituent!

-Joe