Aug 23 Group photo Falls run

[RUBI]

Sorry...............breaking my vow of silence  One last time
 When you say voted by the club............is that by the Members at the meeting .....or all 49 ...(37 members,9 execs, 3 adm) given the chance to voice their concerns ?

 Just curious........seems that out of 1064 registered users the membership should be higher that it is. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......

[fug]

Yes it was voted on by all members at a meeting a while back.  Every 6 months or so it comes up again...and we rehash the hell out of it.

This is not a question of dirty jeep/clean jeep, on or offroad. It's simple.  Members of the CJA can post pics in certain forums... people who are just forum member/users can not.

[Spinalguy]

Rubi,
pay your $50 and have a voice.
Sheesh...

[01sahara]

Sorry...............breaking my vow of silence  One last time
 When you say voted by the club............is that by the Members at the meeting .....or all 49 ...(37 members,9 execs, 3 adm) given the chance to voice their concerns ?

 Just curious........seems that out of 1064 registered users the membership should be higher that it is. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......

That would be voted on at a  meeting by the current members of the club that are at that meeting. Yes, only voted on by those that have paid membership fees and shown up at the meeting.  Even a bigger qualification is that  members need to have their membership application approved by the executive who have been  elected each year. Being a registered user does not give a non member a say in how the club and website are operated as that is up to the paid membership and the executive. They pay for the web site and have a vested interest in the reputation of the club. Debate on topic is good and differing opinions are good but decisions are voted on and discussed at the members level and between the executive we try to follow what the majority of members want. Some times the executive makes decisions but usually in the short term and then they are discussed at the next meeting.  

Don't vow silence. Debate is good that is how decisions get made and others get exposed to the information.  Lots of the members have spent huge amounts of time building the clubs reputation as being responsible OHV useres. It only takes one person being really dumb  with a CJA sticker on their jeep to distroy that work. So we have some rules to protect what we are trying to build.  We have yet to kicked anyone out since I became a member but sometimes members get warned when they are being dumb or irresponsible. That is part of being a member of a club. Many of the clubs in the province have much striker rules and more requirements to becoming a member. Its just the way the club works. If pepole don't like the rules or what the club stands for then they don't have to become a member it's their choice.  

[RUBI]

Not meaning to be a $h_t  disturber or anything, I am just trying to understand some of the politics going on here.....Iv'e heard many a conversation on the trails about this same thing and a lot of people just don't want to deal with it at all ...so they just refuse to become an actual member. I do think your votes should include ALL MEMBERS wether attending the meetings or not...many like myself would be hard pressed to get out to these....maybe an onsight voting forum for members and the topics to be decided ??
 So does this relate back to trouble in paradise, or to over zealous idealism and censorship
 Maybe a slightly more relaxed atmosphere would generate more interest in membership and participation in Club organized events and Trail Projects ??

 Believe me when I say ..........I Love getting out on the trails, and I use common sense and respect the enviroment.
Every time I get out I'm bring back more back than I left with.......and YES I still see abuse that has been going on out there, but if you can't catch them doing it...how are you gonna educate them

 Iv'e been wheeling in Waip/Ghost , Hunter Valley, Burnt River area since the 80s and have probably been on more trails than most anyone I know..............and it saddens me I can no longer run many of them anymore. Times change.......larger populations and more users out there make it even more difficult create a positive image for us.

 I guess I'll need to get out to this coming Sept meeting ...even if I have to take the time off work.................
 I'll shut up now.......Iv'e spoke my piece.

[dunl]

Some clubs will be more relaxed than the CJA, some will be more strict.  In doing so, they create an atmosphere that is specific to that club.  And "slightly more relaxed" means compared to what? Where do you draw the line?

That's the problem...you HAVE to draw a line somewhere, because if you don't there will always be someone who doesn't know when to stop themselves. That's why society has norms and rules.

[Z]

I can see both sides, while it would be nice to have a fully open community, I have seen some vids on youtube that reflected very poorly on the Jeep community in general. Although, I don't think Alex's hill climb was a violation of the Tread Lightly principles (please correct me if it was), I can see how someone outside the community can use collections of videos to make their case (correct or not). Due to the small size of the community, it is difficult to moderate posts, so I agree that not everyone should be allowed to post pics or vids.

However..... I also think someone like Rubi, who has enough posts and experience to know what is right and wrong, perhaps should be allowed to post a group shot. Perhaps once you have X number of posts in good standing, you can post pics??? jmho

regardless, I fully plan on attending the next meeting and paying my dues.

[01sahara]

Good thread, it exposes others to some of the issues we are facing as a club / comunity members or not.

[RUBI]

Membership has it's due and priviledges I suppose..............
I guess I have inadvertently retracted my "Vow of Silence".......possibly my frustration of being told where one cannot go and what you may or may not do when there anyways. Possibly just getting Old and Miserable as well.
 Born and raised right here in Alberta and have had all the countryside for my playground, and now having to share it with thousands more (some of which do not value it as much as others)........and only to be dictated to by the ones setting the new playground rules ( not meaning CJA.....the Govt sanctioned Authorities) GAMP ,AURS and all the rest of them. ..in some respects they need to be there, but for those who don't need them, it's sad.  :'(
 I try to get out as much and when I can, and if I can interest one more person and put a positive outlook on their experience...........maybe they will continue in those same footsteps.
 I apologise for any ruffled feathers, it was not my intent to single anyone out if they have felt that way.

[SmilinVamp]

I still think there is a bit of confusion here... a forum member does not = a CJA member.   The point is, this is the CJA's website and since everyone registered on this site agreed to their terms of use... then there shouldn't be any disagreement.  The Club (the CJA) owns the forum - it's there's... they choose to share it with the public.... they moderate it as they collectively decide...

...I'm trying to understand why the discussion.... I'm sure you'd be miffed if your neighbor decided he wanted to change the color of your house one day... <confused>

[RUBI]

Freedom of speech, voicing ones opinions and concerns..........opens doors and minds to change.

[SmilinVamp]

I agree... but I thought we were talking about posting pictures. 
The policy is no pictures - this is not arguable - it's their rule. 

To question why is this rule in place, sure go ahead... but it doesn't change the rule.  Nor really influence it... for that, become a CJA member.  This is only my point of view... there are many views and all will be valid in some form...


This sure sounds familiar... everyone wants change, but no one has the time... that's the next guys job.  (yes this is the voice of frustration)

[SwampSinger]

I agree... but I thought we were talking about posting pictures. 
The policy is no pictures - this is not arguable - it's their rule. 

To question why is this rule in place, sure go ahead... but it doesn't change the rule.  Nor really influence it... for that, become a CJA member.  This is only my point of view... there are many views and all will be valid in some form...


This sure sounds familiar... everyone wants change, but no one has the time... that's the next guys job.  (yes this is the voice of frustration)

I hear ya ....

[Waytec]

This debate has been going on sine I started on the sight and became a member. Debate is good CJA rules are rules, if you don't like them go else where.
I am going to give a good example of what happened to my buddy back home in Ontario of how posting pictures can get you in trouble. If you don't know the OPP have a S.A.V.E team (don't ask me what it stands for) but the are the police group that patrol to waters and back country (they have stuff we would drool over) and they have more power then an average OPP officer.
They got a picture off of a web sight of where people are wheeling on privet land that they have permission to be on. They waited on the road and with a MTO officer and inspected each rig and out of 5, 3 where impounded for violations to the Vehicle Safety Act and in Ontario the road ditch is considered provincial property so they all go a trespassing ticket, very small amount not worth fitting, but gust insult to injury.
So you can see how pictures of doing thing perfectly legal con still get you into a situation. All off-roading, Jeep, Quad, and Bike are under the microscope all throughout the world so we have to do things to protect ourselves.     

[BlackYJ]

a forum member does not = a CJA member.   The point is, this is the CJA's website and since everyone registered on this site agreed to their terms of use... then there shouldn't be any disagreement.  The Club (the CJA) owns the forum - it's there's... they choose to share it with the public.... they moderate it as they collectively decide...

This is EXACTLY it.  If you don't like the way the forum is run, join the club and voice your opinion.  It is a blunt statement, but the truth.  I go to several other forum sites and I have to "play" by their rules as it is their site.