Tread Lightly Canada

[Hi Lo Silver]

Corey, I'm not going to try and tell anybody why Tread Lightly is either a good thing or a bad thing.  What I am curious about is why would the SRD people you're working with be so irked about the Tread Lightly concept coming up this way, again. (it was here before)

 After all this is the same SRD that has been consulting with and pushing ideas of a quad organization based from the US. I'll have to research the name of that organization again but SRD has everyone thinking this is the best agenda to follow. Rightfully so I guess, when that organization is easily influenced by the SRD ideas of closure to old seismic lines and exploration roads to 4x4's but for some reason are still a sustainable trail system to quads.

What Tread Lightly does do though, it tries to educate users of proper trail usage and ediquite (spell check) rather than take SRD's way of simply denying access to certain users. I'd gladly pay for a membership to Tread Lightly before I'd ever want to go the free use respect concept if using repect means staying out of the places I 've enjoyed for years and watch them go to nothing but quads.

[Corey Kruchkowski]

Corey, I'm not going to try and tell anybody why Tread Lightly is either a good thing or a bad thing.  What I am curious about is why would the SRD people you're working with be so irked about the Tread Lightly concept coming up this way, again. (it was here before)

 After all this is the same SRD that has been consulting with and pushing ideas of a quad organization based from the US. I'll have to research the name of that organization again but SRD has everyone thinking this is the best agenda to follow. Rightfully so I guess, when that organization is easily influenced by the SRD ideas of closure to old seismic lines and exploration roads to 4x4's but for some reason are still a sustainable trail system to quads.

What Tread Lightly does do though, it tries to educate users of proper trail usage and ediquite (spell check) rather than take SRD's way of simply denying access to certain users. I'd gladly pay for a membership to Tread Lightly before I'd ever want to go the free use respect concept if using repect means staying out of the places I 've enjoyed for years and watch them go to nothing but quads.

Must be Gunther.

Look - an anti-government stance is going to bear NO fruit in these times. Our TNT member who attended the reading of bill C-36 will attest to that.
I'm sorry you feel f-ed over by the SRD but they are the only people that can open up access.

A good friend of mine had no use for Tread Lightly, his name was Ken Taylor. He realized it's irrelevance in our province.

[Hi Lo Silver]

Yup, anti government all the way. I have been for a lot of years, but only because so many of those years have been spent watching ASRD rapidly closing trails, with zero trails ever being reopened or added to any trail system that I'm aware of in this province. Show me the trails and I'll show them the respect I once had for them.

Looks like another Tread Lighlty thread going astray. For that I apologize, but not for my stance on ASRD and trail closures.

[Hi Lo Silver]

Corey, taken from the Tread Lightly page as I'm sure you've visited the site as well.

Tread Lightly! Canada On Land
 
Travel responsibly on designated roads and trails or in permitted areas.
Respect the rights of others including private property owners and all recreational trail users, campers and others to allow them to enjoy their recreational activities undisturbed.
Educate yourself by obtaining travel maps and regulations from public agencies, planning for your trip, taking recreation skills classes, and knowing how to use and operate your equipment safely.
Avoid sensitive areas such as meadows, lakeshores, wetlands and streams, unless on designated routes.  This protects wildlife habitat and sensitive soils from damage.
Do your part by leaving the area better than you found it, properly disposing of waste, minimizing the use of fire, avoiding the spread of invasive species, restoring degraded areas, and joining a local enthusiast organization.

There's only one of those that I don't agree with and that one would keep me from being involved to the fullest. I'll let you guess which one that  would be. It's the same type of wording I rejected on the AB4WD bylaws.

[Corey Kruchkowski]

Yup, anti government all the way. I have been for a lot of years, but only because so many of those years have been spent watching ASRD rapidly closing trails, with zero trails ever being reopened or added to any trail system that I'm aware of in this province. Show me the trails and I'll show them the respect I once had for them.

Looks like another Tread Lighlty thread going astray. For that I apologize, but not for my stance on ASRD and trail closures.

Meet me in Hinton and I'll show you a whole trail system build for the public by the West Fraser Timber company, with the SRD's approval.

Meet me in Grande Cache and I'll show you areas we are allowed in that quads aren't.

Come a bit further north and I'll show you the huge tract of land that TNT is being given stewardship over.

Cross over to BC up here and we'll go visit the Kaybob area, newly created designated off-highway vehicle zones.

The biggest problem for you guys is too much population for too few mountains. Unfortunately I don't know what the solution to that is.

[WhiteOut]

Corey, thanks for explaining that there are areas for us.  I never realized that we had all that.  The reason I have a membership to Tread Lightly ia that one day I want to wheel in the US, so if my $25/year helps keep places like MOAB and Tellico from being closed then Im happy with it.  I keep the Tread Lightly books in the Jeep and Ive actually shown them to one or two people who were curious about the sticker, they seemed pretty impressed that wheelers were actually commited to responsible offroading and willing to commit money to it.

[thumper]

My take on it is we elected them and they are people very much like us trying to do their job. Unless we can somehow develop the relationships with them and educate them and persuade them as to why and moreover HOW we can keep these things open, then we lose to others who can.  It's like the guy at work you want to control... anger and fighting may intimidate him into doing what you want *now*, but he'll figure a way to royally <family site> you later and moreover often the group that has had that done to them gangs up and goes payback. (Hmmm could that be *US*??)We don't have to like the game, but if you choose not to play it, you lose by default.  I don't like the game, I don't like the closures and I certainly am disgusted that quads get to go a lot of places having seen how some of them have torn up some trails and watching bikes climb hills off-trail, removing vegetation and creating slippage.  We're not without our problem people too... not everyone who gets a 4x4 has a clue about any of this stuff or even cares.I can't say a whole lot because when this all first started, I figured I didn't have the time to educate myself as to the process and chose not to get involved.  Look where that landed me/us.Team play almost always has more clout than individual play, but that requires someone with extreme charisma who is intimately familiar with how it works and who is willing to schmooze with the opposing side to develop that rapport.  As they say, "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer", not that I go out of my way to consider them the enemy.So which team(s) are the best to join in terms of their effectiveness at keeping trail systems usable and open??  Is it Tread Lightly? Is it someone else?  I don't know (yet), but we need *some* larger coordinated organization that reflects *OUR* agenda, *OUR* interests and acts as *OUR* voice.Anyone have a synopsis of the game and a playbook? Oh wow... way off thread I think... dunno. I tried to investigate joining the other day, but the button on their website did nothing

     Kinda like this post, similar to where I'm at.
     I attended an open house in Edmonton concerning Bill 36, Alberta Land Stewardship Act ( check locally as to when a presentation will be in your area). The Province is being divided into seven regions. Each region will have a "Regional advisory council". Apparently two regions have chosen their councils. The other five are still choosing theirs. If you know someone sympathetic to our cause who's resume would give them a shot at a position,now is a good time to step up. A voice in the room is worth more than chanting outside.
     That said, the 4x4 community will still have to present itself through the clubs, as Tread Lightly, and as individuals to these councils.
     Sorry, kinda off topic, but I thought timely.

[Corey Kruchkowski]

My take on it is we elected them and they are people very much like us trying to do their job. Unless we can somehow develop the relationships with them and educate them and persuade them as to why and moreover HOW we can keep these things open, then we lose to others who can.  

It's like the guy at work you want to control... anger and fighting may intimidate him into doing what you want *now*, but he'll figure a way to royally <family site> you later and moreover often the group that has had that done to them gangs up and goes payback. (Hmmm could that be *US*??)

We don't have to like the game, but if you choose not to play it, you lose by default.  I don't like the game, I don't like the closures and I certainly am disgusted that quads get to go a lot of places having seen how some of them have torn up some trails and watching bikes climb hills off-trail, removing vegetation and creating slippage.  We're not without our problem people too... not everyone who gets a 4x4 has a clue about any of this stuff or even cares.

I can't say a whole lot because when this all first started, I figured I didn't have the time to educate myself as to the process and chose not to get involved.  Look where that landed me/us.

Team play almost always has more clout than individual play, but that requires someone with extreme charisma who is intimately familiar with how it works and who is willing to schmooze with the opposing side to develop that rapport.  As they say, "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer", not that I go out of my way to consider them the enemy.

So which team(s) are the best to join in terms of their effectiveness at keeping trail systems usable and open??  Is it Tread Lightly? Is it someone else?  I don't know (yet), but we need *some* larger coordinated organization that reflects *OUR* agenda, *OUR* interests and acts as *OUR* voice.

Anyone have a synopsis of the game and a playbook?

Oh wow... way off thread I think... dunno. I tried to investigate joining the other day, but the button on their website did nothing

My thoughts too.

The days of "us" vs. "them" are over. Either groups like ours work with the government - or we just don't work at all.

We elected them, we have to deal with them now.

It's not as difficult as some of you seem to think.

[Hi Lo Silver]

Corey, all those areas of trail systems you say are open to you. Are those areas that had been closed and now open to the 4x4's or are they actually areas that have always been open due in part to industry and just haven't been closed YET? Big difference,  and we have them all around us here too. Putting BC into that list isn't even a valid arguement for our trail system. The reason I do so much wheeleing in BC is because they haven't yet been too influenced by Alberta's policies. There are however areas down here that have been restricted on both sides making it obvious they may be working together on some of access to trails .

Why do so many people think that they are the new generation of users that have worked with SRD and no one before them have ever done that before? That's the one reason I keep piping up. ASRD have people now thinking they will add trails to the system if they work with them. People for the past 30 years of wheeling have been involved with the process and get nothing in return but more closures. That's the one reason I don't trust them. They have an agenda for the years to come, and 4x4's are not part of that agenda.

We elected them? I'll correct that. You elected them if you voted for them. I haven't voted for them since Kananaskis Country was  implented, so have the right to be anti government about thier trail policies.

[FullMetalJeep]

I dont see how it's a bad thing at all to have more than 1 organization working with us to help keep trails open. And I think all the better if they dont like each other, that to me sounds even better.

[Corey Kruchkowski]

I dont see how it's a bad thing at all to have more than 1 organization working with us to help keep trails open. And I think all the better if they dont like each other, that to me sounds even better.

Ok, and how is Tread Lightly doing that for you today? This is my original question.

The people that are going to keep the Alberta trails open = you. How is that going to happen? By working with government.

[01sahara]

Ok, and how is Tread Lightly doing that for you today? This is my original question.

The people that are going to keep the Alberta trails open = you. How is that going to happen? By working with government.

I agree with you Corey that working with the government is a key for any chance of opening trails. It’s their game and we can either play by their rules or not play at all. In the long run not trying will get us no where. I have been hard at that approach for a few years working on trail projects and am still optimistic. If  it does not  then at least I tried. I do understand the frustration of those that have gone before and lost so much trail area west of Calgary. I may have the same opinion after a few more years of trying but for now I am still working at it.  Gun and others spent years working with the government while loosing trails you did some great work and your frustration is understandable considering how GAMP hit so hard in the Calgary region. For now though  many of us are still enthusiastic that we can make a difference.

The educational information provided by Tread Lightly and soon the new Tread Lightly Canada can do lots to improve our  image with the general public and may reach some of the wheelers that are not part of one of our organized clubs and improve their behavior. Bear in Edmonton and Amanda here in Calgary have been working on the getting Tread Lightly Canada up and running. One of them may be able to provide more info and correct anything I have got wrong. I think that Tread Lightly Canada is going to be focused on Education. Yes Respect The Land is a good program by the government but we have had no input on it. It is also only in Alberta where Tread lightly Canada has been formed with representation from other provinces as well. I see more individuals working on education as a benefit to improving the image of wheeling and that can only help us in the long run. Just my take on it.

 I will gladly support a national approach to education of OHV users in Canada . It can only help to offset the bad press we often get. It is the May long weekend and we often get slammed in the press. Please do what you can to get out and clean up after those that are giving our sport a bad name this weekend. The efforts of the responsible users and organized clubs does help to show we are not all the same as the irresponsible users that will be shown in the news this next weekend. If all the users this long weekend supported and followed the principals set out by Tread Lightly we would not bee seen as the destroyers in the Press.



Thanks,
Blair


Tread Lightly! Canada On Land
 
Travel responsibly on designated roads and trails or in permitted areas.
Respect the rights of others including private property owners and all recreational trail users, campers and others to allow them to enjoy their recreational activities undisturbed.
Educate yourself by obtaining travel maps and regulations from public agencies, planning for your trip, taking recreation skills classes, and knowing how to use and operate your equipment safely.
Avoid sensitive areas such as meadows, lakeshores, wetlands and streams, unless on designated routes.  This protects wildlife habitat and sensitive soils from damage.
Do your part by leaving the area better than you found it, properly disposing of waste, minimizing the use of fire, avoiding the spread of invasive species, restoring degraded areas, and joining a local enthusiast organization.

[FullMetalJeep]

Ok, and how is Tread Lightly doing that for you today? This is my original question.

The people that are going to keep the Alberta trails open = you. How is that going to happen? By working with government

i will work with anyone who may help to keep trails open. the government is a given.

[Stinky Bear]

Respect The Land is a great program and I think everyone should subscribe to its philosophies and practices. That said I personally and another board member of Tread Lightly Canada have had conversations with SRD employees and have had a great response from them about TLC. Secondly the manpower and resources at their disposal could be bolstered by TLC and education would be definitely increased with the involvement of the organization.

One thing to remember is yes Tread Lightly is  an American creation that is certain, but Tread Lightly Canada is NOT.....We are working very hard to utilize what Treadlightly has grown into, a wonderful tool for our friends to the south use, into something that we as Canadians can call our own. In doing this we will make the new facet cater to Canadian issues and address Canadian needs. Tread lightly Canada will help both educate land users in each demographic to the needs and requirements of that area which they use. Also the collaboration could help propagate and strengthen needed projects that will sustain and maintain current and future trails, waterways and multi use ares across the country.
The SRD here has limited resourses and do the absolute best they can with what they have. But what if Tread Lightly Canada could help bring more to the table to support the initiative. What if Tread Lightly Canada brought more to the table for the land users as well. Isn't it a win win situation? Together we will make this happen together change can be effected and together as a group, as a team we will all get what we want and need.

Liasing is only one part of the big picture! Working and educating with and for the users and the "governing bodies" is another.

Instead of persecuting the corperation step up and try to help make it what you want it to be....a voice and a helping hand in securing the future of off road usage!!!

[Corey Kruchkowski]

Respect The Land is a great program and I think everyone should subscribe to its philosophies and practices. That said I personally and another board member of Tread Lightly Canada have had conversations with SRD employees and have had a great response from them about TLC. Secondly the manpower and resources at their disposal could be bolstered by TLC and education would be definitely increased with the involvement of the organization.

One thing to remember is yes Tread Lightly is  an American creation that is certain, but Tread Lightly Canada is NOT.....We are working very hard to utilize what Treadlightly has grown into, a wonderful tool for our friends to the south use, into something that we as Canadians can call our own. In doing this we will make the new facet cater to Canadian issues and address Canadian needs. Tread lightly Canada will help both educate land users in each demographic to the needs and requirements of that area which they use. Also the collaboration could help propagate and strengthen needed projects that will sustain and maintain current and future trails, waterways and multi use ares across the country.
The SRD here has limited resourses and do the absolute best they can with what they have. But what if Tread Lightly Canada could help bring more to the table to support the initiative. What if Tread Lightly Canada brought more to the table for the land users as well. Isn't it a win win situation? Together we will make this happen together change can be effected and together as a group, as a team we will all get what we want and need.

Liasing is only one part of the big picture! Working and educating with and for the users and the "governing bodies" is another.

Instead of persecuting the corperation step up and try to help make it what you want it to be....a voice and a helping hand in securing the future of off road usage!!!

Tread Lightly probably has some merit educating city people about the "ins and outs" of responsible off-roading in general. In that respect it probably is a worthy endeavor - if it keeps newbies in check.

As far as securing a future for off-roading in this province, you may want to read the contents of Bill C-36, and ask myself or others what exactly it MEANS in the eyes of the public servants tasked with enacting it! Bill C-36 is a really big deal.

In effect, the future of wheeling in this province has already been decided. I know this because I "liason" as you call it with high level SRD personnel - when we meet with the SRD, the SRD managers for ALL OF ALBERTA come to GP to sit down. They all knew how it was going to play out 3 years ago, when they helped us change our dialogue to be well positioned for the new way of managing Alberta lands. The release of the contents of C-36 tell me much about past actions by the government persons I deal with.

The new model calls for interest groups to join regional boards comprised of stake holders. These boards will consist of representatives from ORGANIZED groups and industry. TNT already has a spot on our regional board (the ATV enthusiasts missed the boat).  We are now being asked for input each time a decision is being made that affects the way we recreate, and our input is being used in the development of a new OHV area. The best part? We get face time with the people that actually make the big decisions. That email campaign I asked people to do? Made a HUGE deal with the government - and they were very impressed. The minister responsible for Alberta Parks called me personally to thank me for the mass input from the rest of the province.

SO - what is Tread Lightly doing today to keep lands open? It may be a wonderful thing to have here - but at this important junction - how is it helping enthusiasts? Does it speak for the offroad enthusiast community in Alberta? Does it include ATV users? If it does, you may want to rethink membership in it - as ATV's have the crosshairs pointed at them right now (like we did a few years back) - and are on the shitlist with the SRD in many areas. You will not be educating government bodies - trust me - organized 4x4 groups like ours are not considered problematic, but rather are intended to be used as a solution. DO NOT lump yourselves in with ATVs.

My question to you i why hasn't your club (ECO? Or is it NA4WDA?) contacted the SRD and Parks in YOUR area and begun the process of being taken seriously by the decision makers? Do they know that you consider yourselves stakeholders in a certain area or areas? TNT has done just that, and I am pretty sure CJA has as well.

You guys are a bit behind the 8-ball right now, and to be honest Tread Lightly may be important but your enthusiasm may be better directed at ensuring that your organization is part of a process which is occurring right now

I'm sorry if I'm being a jerk about it - but I've stated the reality. Your Tread Lightly sticker won't help you when people from quad and snowmobile and boating clubs/organizations (who have already made inroads positioning themselves as "stakeholders" in various areas) are making decisions about HOW and WHERE you can take your 4x4.

CHOOSE an area(s). Find out who administers it in regards to SRD and Parks. Make sure they know (and I mean REALLY KNOW) why you are stakeholders in that area. Tell them you need your reps to be on the stakeholders board. Since Edmonton is in the middle of a field - I would suggest Hinton + Cadomin + Edson areas for ECO and NA4WDA. Get maps, learn the area - then give them a proposal for areas your club would manage, or steward.

Like Blair said - either work with them or be marginalized. You don't need Tread Lightly - you need to take your established club and get busy with it..