Calgary Jeep Association

Author Topic: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.  (Read 22045 times)

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Offline Bnine

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2010, 08:16:45 AM »
I have a good friend who works doing wheelchair conversions on vans. They used hockey pucks for many years without problems. The materials sold as body lifts are in many cases much brittler than hockey puck rubber i.e. hard plastic. So you actually believe that a hockey puck can withstand a 70MPH slapshot hitting a solid wall but can't support 500kg?



Thats it. You really are a full blown idiot.

Hockey pucks shatter with slap shots all the time.

The delrin used for spacers in after market lifts is an entirely different composition then a hockey puck, and is not one that is prone to shattering.

You need to move on. Take your retarded sht to four wheeler or someowhere else. As long as it isnt here.

My Mechanic Calgary
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Offline esi

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2010, 08:22:48 AM »
Experts by definition must give proper advice...even if it's wrong. A proffesional cannot tell you to do something that a textbook says is "wrong". If a customer came into a dealership and asked whether you could use hockey pucks for body lifts, what do you think the experts would say? Despite the fact that I could show you a 1993 ford van that's had a hockey puck body lift since 93, same pucks, no issues, they would say "no, you should buy a proper brand name body lift from a reputable supplier". Try asking Jeep if half the stuff we do would work and they would say "no". That hasn't stopped us from trying anyway, and learning along the way what works and what doesn't.

Hockey pucks have a purpose, and a reason why they are made. Rubber breaks down, especially when it has a hole drilled through the center,thats why brand name body lift manufacturers use injection molded plastic to make their spacers. You say there are no issues with the 93 VAN, how well does the phuck lift get inspected. And have you considered that if some of the pucks start fall out and a corner of the body drops, the linkages and lines that can be jamed or pinched. If it gets in an accident and those are issue you become liable.
 I do the work on my vehicles so I like to save money but alot of R&D goes into parts and kits made specifically for your vehicles, thats part of the cost of the more expensive parts.



With all of the different budget minded modifications dthat you have done to your vehicles, I would say that you should start your own website and tell the world. But make sure you have a big fat disclaimer on the front page.
Formerly of Boots & Boost Inc
Back farming and fabricating again.

Offline jpthing

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2010, 08:50:18 AM »
Well thanks for your responses but not for the personal insults
Here is a link to a page from the royal purple website which talks about bearing life versus loading.
I beleive the chart starts at zero load.
As you can see, increased load results in decreased bearing life, as I said.
So for me if a belt's  not slipping it's tight enough.
Thanks for a great discussion, I'm moving on.

http://www.royal-purple-industrial.com/reliability/reliability.html

Scroll down a bit to table 1
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 09:05:26 AM by jpthing »
'97 TJ, 5" lift, 35's "Sprout"
'95 Xj, 4" lift, 33's Sold to the Bagman
'10 JK unlimited

"Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right."
-Henry Ford

I'm finally over the Jeep bike debacle..

Offline Pookapotamus

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2010, 09:34:23 AM »
what you are failing to understand is that:

a loose belt will also cause vibration in the bearings of the pullys. bearings are designed to accept a certain load tolerance too much load causes excecive wear as inversely so does too little load.

therefore just as you chart shows vibration causes excesive wear in your bearings.

therefore you should always tighten your belts to the manufacturers recomended specifications. ie. the belt tensioner gauge that i posted earlier.

just my 2 cents, but hey what would a 3D mechanical/piping designer know?  ::)

Offline JackstandJohnny

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2010, 09:37:49 AM »
what you are failing to understand is that:

a loose belt will also cause vibration in the bearings of the pullys. bearings are designed to accept a certain load tolerance too much load causes excecive wear as inversely so does too little load.

therefore just as you chart shows vibration causes excesive wear in your bearings.

therefore you should always tighten your belts to the manufacturers recomended specifications. ie. the belt tensioner gauge that i posted earlier.

just my 2 cents, but hey what would a 3D mechanical/piping designer know?  ::)

shows nothing Dana.  you don't have an engineering background.
now why don't you go find some F150 coils and some one tonne leaf springs to get that XJ in the air?
~ rescue green JKUR on 35s.  typical rubicon build

Offline Spinalguy

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2010, 09:40:59 AM »
Its like a trainwreck...

Here is my take that has no tech merit as everyone knows i am mechanically inept.

The van with hockey pucks? Does it see the forces that would be applied to an offroad rig?

The bottom line is that we as 4x4 enthusiasts are trying so hard to be taken seriously by SRD.
We have come a long way.
We also have to have Transport Canada on our side as well. They are responsible for laws that will or will not allow
us to drive our 4x4's on the street. The absolute killer for us is booty fabbed crap on 4x4's that spend anytime on the road.

NHL lifts are not helping us.

i am sure that CJA is comprised of many that would laugh and giggle over your booty fab ideas at a campfire with a cold beer in hand,
discussing it with you and everyone left in a good mood, including you.
But, on the net, it seems like you are rubbing a few wrong.
There have been guys here that have contributed tech for years. Really GOOD tech.
You present stuff, get questioned/criticized, and than wonder why?

i am sure you are a good guy. You have not bashed anyone, you don't deserve the hammer obviously, but you need to SLOW down on the booty fab tech. It is starting to lose its charm. Some comments to you have been a tad brutal and are not warranted but...

Save it for the campfire. Person to person is so much more fun with the entertainment you have supplied.
sent from my old school rotary dial phone.

Offline Pookapotamus

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2010, 09:43:06 AM »
shows nothing Dana.  you don't have an engineering background.
now why don't you go find some F150 coils and some one tonne leaf springs to get that XJ in the air?

i am soo going to take a crap in your alley johnny!

Offline jpthing

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2010, 09:50:35 AM »
what you are failing to understand is that:

a loose belt will also cause vibration in the bearings of the pullys. bearings are designed to accept a certain load tolerance too much load causes excecive wear as inversely so does too little load.

therefore just as you chart shows vibration causes excesive wear in your bearings.

therefore you should always tighten your belts to the manufacturers recomended specifications. ie. the belt tensioner gauge that i posted earlier.

just my 2 cents, but hey what would a 3D mechanical/piping designer know?  ::)

That is an interesing point I had never considered that looseness could be a problem too, I will look into this further as well as talk to my engineering buddies about their thoghts on the subject.
It's too bad it took this long to begin to get intelligent comment and discussion. Unfortuneately, for most it is too late.
'97 TJ, 5" lift, 35's "Sprout"
'95 Xj, 4" lift, 33's Sold to the Bagman
'10 JK unlimited

"Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right."
-Henry Ford

I'm finally over the Jeep bike debacle..

Offline Bnine

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2010, 10:11:10 AM »
It's too bad it took this long to begin to get intelligent comment and discussion. Unfortuneately, for most it is too late.


There was never anything intelligent about this conversasion. Just people that know what they are talking about, trying to explain the obvious to a self absorbed jack arse.

My patience was gone about an a page ago. I dont care if the others think you shouldnt be treated this harshly or not. You are being an idiot. If no one else will say it, I will.

Enoug is enough.
My Mechanic Calgary
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Offline apex

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2010, 10:18:38 AM »
This thread needs more pages.

Offline dac

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2010, 10:19:32 AM »
That is an interesing point I had never considered that looseness could be a problem too, I will look into this further as well as talk to my engineering buddies about their thoghts on the subject.
It's too bad it took this long to begin to get intelligent comment and discussion. Unfortuneately, for most it is too late.


Why bother talking to your engineering buddies about this?  Do they work for the auto industry designing this type of stuff?  Just because they are an engineer doesn't make them experts.  For instance, the mechanical engineer friend of mine who decided to wire his basement because he's an engineer and can do anything.  Sure he got it done but he didn't really know what he was doing.  My point is, don't pull the "engineering" card because it usually doesn't matter.  Another thing that doesn't matter is how many 100's of other forums you participate in.  We don't care, and it makes you look bad by saying it, like bragging.  What matters is the content of the information you bring to this forum, which if you can't tell isn't being received well.

As for some of your ideas, she they might get the job done for a short time but compare it to using impliment tires on your jeep and then taking it on the highway.   They're just tires right?  What happens when they fail because they weren't designed for what you're using them for.  What the other guys are trying to get across is that when it comes to safety, lifts, that sort of thing, don't scab it together because you don't really know what its failing point will be, so don't try and convince someone that doesn't know any better to do it.

The other thing you're failing to grasp is that your butting heads with guys who either do this for a living and are good at it, or build their stuff to compete and have worked with R&D teams or know people on R&D teams that build some of the stuff that goes on our rigs.  I don't know Bill, for instance, but I do know not to argue with him.  He knows what he's talking about and has been around the club long enough and has helped a lot of people get their stuff running safely and reliably.  So as a forum participant, how can we take what you say as good ideas when you're contradicting the people we either know and trust or know of and trust.

I'd give the tech ideas a rest if I were you.  You're not making any friends doing so.  Sure, if someone posts a problem and needs help, help away.  Just think about your responce first.  Like would you do this fix to the vehicle that transports your wife and kids.  Or would you do this fix to a vehicle that passes your wife and kids on the road everyday.

The point is you don't have to comment on absolutely every topic, there's no need and it's usually not well received for what ever reason.  Not that you shouldn't post at all, just be careful of the advice you try and give.
This is not 'Nam, this is wheeling.  There are rules.

Offline jpthing

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'97 TJ, 5" lift, 35's "Sprout"
'95 Xj, 4" lift, 33's Sold to the Bagman
'10 JK unlimited

"Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right."
-Henry Ford

I'm finally over the Jeep bike debacle..

Offline JackstandJohnny

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #87 on: February 17, 2010, 09:51:45 AM »
if you look hard enough on the internet i bet you can find someone to agree with you that the Earth is flat too............
~ rescue green JKUR on 35s.  typical rubicon build

Offline Pookapotamus

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2010, 09:53:14 AM »
WAIT! WTF the earth is not flat???  since when?

Offline jpthing

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Re: How to save $$ on idlers, belts, accsessories etc.
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2010, 10:01:17 AM »
if you look hard enough on the internet i bet you can find someone to agree with you that the Earth is flat too............

That was the first guy I asked on the first website that came up under "auto expert"
If you disagree let's talk about why and maybe actually acomplish something.. Two expert techs agreed, running your belt loose is fine if it doesn't slip.

Tech should not ve a poularity contest.
'97 TJ, 5" lift, 35's "Sprout"
'95 Xj, 4" lift, 33's Sold to the Bagman
'10 JK unlimited

"Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right."
-Henry Ford

I'm finally over the Jeep bike debacle..